Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

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Case Western Reserve University v. Seattle University

Case Western Reserve University (23K)
10
71%
Seattle University (18K)
4
29%
 
Total votes: 14

SuchGr8Heights
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Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:16 pm

I've basically narrowed my choices to Case and Seattle. I love Seattle and the Pacific Northwest, but I've only spent summers there. I've received $23,000/yr at Case (2.33) and $18,000/yr at Seattle (top 25%). I feel like Case has greater reach, but I also know that both of these schools are particularly regional. Does anybody have anything that can help me make up my mind? I've visited Seattle and I'm heading out to Cleveland on Sunday to check out Case.

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cinephile
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby cinephile » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:34 am

I wouldn't say that Case has better reach. Certainly the money and stipulations are better, but if you're not from Ohio and not intending to stay in northeastern Ohio, it's probably not the school for you.

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Nova
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Nova » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:43 pm

Where are you from?

Out of those choices, Case is the better choice. Seattle's sTTTips are too terrible.

SuchGr8Heights
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:35 pm

Nova wrote:Where are you from?

Out of those choices, Case is the better choice. Seattle's sTTTips are too terrible.


I'm originally from South Florida, went to school in Upstate New York, spent the last five summers near Seattle and now live with my mom in the Bay Area. I would ideally like to live in the Pacific NW. Also, the scholarship I was given has the 25% requirement and the dean of admissions told me 72% of recipients were able to hold onto the scholarship. The odds seem to be in my favor if that's true, plus the better off I do the better job I'll start out with. Why's Case the better choice? Both of those would serve me best by living in their respective regions. I also got into Pitt (working on negotiating now with them still) and Lewis & Clark (just offered me 13K the other day). I've got a big choice to make in the upcoming weeks (or days)!

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The Rover
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby The Rover » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:28 am

GPA / LSAT?

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Nova
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Nova » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:50 am

SuchGr8Heights wrote:
Nova wrote: Also, the scholarship I was given has the 25% requirement and the dean of admissions told me 72% of recipients were able to hold onto the scholarship. The odds seem to be in my favor if that's true, plus the better off I do the better job I'll start out with.


Even if we go by the deans numbers,the 30ish percent who dont retain it are shit out of luck and have dug themselves into a hole. The school is not worth sticker.

It is not wise to presume you will be in the top quartile. 75% of students will fail to do so.

Those sTTTips suck so bad that they alone make Case the better choice, all things being equal.
Last edited by Nova on Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:54 am

Neither of those schools are good choices at those prices. Retake or don't go.

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Samara
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:58 am

Retake and reapply?

If not, try to negotiate the stip away at Seattle U.

If not, go to Seattle U and drop out if you lose the scholly.

Even with the scholly though, it's too expensive for the weak job prospects and weak ties. I would retake or not go if it were me, but if you really want to take the risk, Seattle U seems like the best option.

SuchGr8Heights
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:58 am

The Rover wrote:GPA / LSAT?

3.11 (math major)/ 162

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Samara
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:03 am

SuchGr8Heights wrote:
The Rover wrote:GPA / LSAT?

3.11 (math major)/ 162

Retake. Get a few more points and you could get into U Washington. Get a 170+ and you could get a T14 or big scholly at U Washington (not sure how generous they are to splitters).

SuchGr8Heights
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:17 am

Samara wrote:
SuchGr8Heights wrote:
The Rover wrote:GPA / LSAT?

3.11 (math major)/ 162

Retake. Get a few more points and you could get into U Washington. Get a 170+ and you could get a T14 or big scholly at U Washington (not sure how generous they are to splitters).


I kinda feel like that's a waste of time. The amount of effort it would take pushed me from that option. I could use that same enthusiasm and kill it my first year.

rad lulz
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby rad lulz » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:19 am

SuchGr8Heights wrote:I could use that same enthusiasm and kill it my first year.

100% of people are about as confident as you. Only half will be above median. Math.

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Samara
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Samara » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:28 am

SuchGr8Heights wrote:I kinda feel like that's a waste of time. The amount of effort it would take pushed me from that option. I could use that same enthusiasm and kill it my first year.

*facepalm*

A retake is so much easier than doing well in law school and is so much cheaper. It could save you tens of thousands of dollars. It could give you job prospects that are actually decent and open up career opportunities that are simply inaccessible from Seattle U. Retake and reapply.

SuchGr8Heights
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:16 am

Samara wrote:
SuchGr8Heights wrote:I kinda feel like that's a waste of time. The amount of effort it would take pushed me from that option. I could use that same enthusiasm and kill it my first year.

*facepalm*

A retake is so much easier than doing well in law school and is so much cheaper. It could save you tens of thousands of dollars. It could give you job prospects that are actually decent and open up career opportunities that are simply inaccessible from Seattle U. Retake and reapply.


I studied really hard to prep for the LSAT and gave it my all. I'm really proud of my 162 and don't feel retaking will do anything but stress me out and make me think that a 162 is not a good score. We forget at times on this site that scores like 162 are 85th percentile.

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Systematic1
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Systematic1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:31 am

SuchGr8Heights wrote: I'm really proud of my 162 and don't feel retaking will do anything but stress me out and make me think that a 162 is not a good score. We forget at times on this site that scores like 162 are 85th percentile.



I guess keep rationalizing it then, it seems to be working. But at some point, you'll have to rationalize unemployment and massive debt too–and that's not as easy.


Stop being lazy and retake.

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thelawyler
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby thelawyler » Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:02 am

I don't want to seem like I'm ganging up on you, but they are kind of right.

It is much much much easier to get a higher LSAT than hit that 25% stip at Seattle U, and much much much less risk too. And check this out: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... d3c&gid=12

You'll need top 10% to land what most consider a "good" job. Trust me, that's much harder to do than 170+ on the LSAT. And about 45% are unemployed if you consider that the business employment at SU is probably not prestigious things like consulting/ibanking... yeah. And 55% are unemployed at Case Western if you consider that most of those "business" employment is also likely to be entry level stuff that doesn't require JDs or are very competitive. And you'll need top 15% there for a good job, too.

I don't mean to shatter dreams, but it's better than shattering your life.

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stillwater
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby stillwater » Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:47 am

Retaking the LSAT is the most controllable way to improve your lot. It is a test that can be learned and improved upon with some diligence and hard-work. Now, as other people have said, relying on "killing it" is far less likely than improving on your LSAT. You have to compete with your class who also want to "kill it." Furthermore, logically speaking, the earlier you set yourself on a path with a chance of success the more likely you will be to achieve that success. You start running out of options when you settle on the LSAT, then settle on a school. SHORT VERSION: Don't settle, retake.

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Samara
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby Samara » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:41 am

SuchGr8Heights wrote:
Samara wrote:
SuchGr8Heights wrote:I kinda feel like that's a waste of time. The amount of effort it would take pushed me from that option. I could use that same enthusiasm and kill it my first year.

*facepalm*

A retake is so much easier than doing well in law school and is so much cheaper. It could save you tens of thousands of dollars. It could give you job prospects that are actually decent and open up career opportunities that are simply inaccessible from Seattle U. Retake and reapply.


I studied really hard to prep for the LSAT and gave it my all. I'm really proud of my 162 and don't feel retaking will do anything but stress me out and make me think that a 162 is not a good score. We forget at times on this site that scores like 162 are 85th percentile.

It's not about whether or not 162 is a good score or what percentile it is when only 68% of all law school graduates are getting jobs that require bar passage. It's about that even less when your score puts you at a school that has such weak employment numbers as Seattle U and Case Western. Unfortunately, with your GPA, a 162 is just not going to be able to get you into a school that is worth the debt or opportunity cost.

Lots of people here have improved several points from their first score. You can do it.

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romothesavior
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:05 pm

rad lulz wrote:
SuchGr8Heights wrote:I could use that same enthusiasm and kill it my first year.

100% of people are about as confident as you. Only half will be above median. Math.

You would expect a math major to be a lot better with probabilities. Improving on the LSAT is infinitely easier and cheaper than going to a mediocre law school and cranking out top 10% grades. The attitude that you can just kill it your first year has left many students with lots of debt and few job prospects, because most of them don't kill it, and then they're screwed.

OP, given your lack ties, mediocre options at very regional schools (neither one has "reach"), and the big debt load you are looking at, retake/reapply is a no brainer here.

concurrent fork
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby concurrent fork » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:08 pm

rad lulz wrote:Retake or don't go.

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catholicgirl
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby catholicgirl » Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:21 pm

Most the people here aren't picking on you, I promise.

Personally, getting my LSAT score was insanely difficult for me because of stamina issues connected to a horrific car accident, brain bruising nightmare that had happened a few months before. Had I not studied I probably would have only gotten a 160. But I knuckled down and did what I had to do so that I could ensure I would have the best chance when I applied this past fall. Retake it OP and knock it out of the park.

Neither of those schools may help you achieve your goals. We're not saying this to be cruel, we're saying this to be factual. For my two cents, CWRU will not dick around with your scholarship, but then you're trapped in Ohio and the Midwest post-graduation.

SuchGr8Heights
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby SuchGr8Heights » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:02 pm

catholicgirl wrote:Most the people here aren't picking on you, I promise.

Personally, getting my LSAT score was insanely difficult for me because of stamina issues connected to a horrific car accident, brain bruising nightmare that had happened a few months before. Had I not studied I probably would have only gotten a 160. But I knuckled down and did what I had to do so that I could ensure I would have the best chance when I applied this past fall. Retake it OP and knock it out of the park.

Neither of those schools may help you achieve your goals. We're not saying this to be cruel, we're saying this to be factual. For my two cents, CWRU will not dick around with your scholarship, but then you're trapped in Ohio and the Midwest post-graduation.


I studied my ass off and only focused on LSAT prep during that time. The chance of me making any improvement isn't very high due to the fact that I won't have nearly as much time to study now as I had then. I began with a 152 on my first practice and plateaued around 164 a few weeks before the test. I got my score back and moved on with the application process.

rad lulz
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby rad lulz » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:07 pm

SuchGr8Heights wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:Most the people here aren't picking on you, I promise.

Personally, getting my LSAT score was insanely difficult for me because of stamina issues connected to a horrific car accident, brain bruising nightmare that had happened a few months before. Had I not studied I probably would have only gotten a 160. But I knuckled down and did what I had to do so that I could ensure I would have the best chance when I applied this past fall. Retake it OP and knock it out of the park.

Neither of those schools may help you achieve your goals. We're not saying this to be cruel, we're saying this to be factual. For my two cents, CWRU will not dick around with your scholarship, but then you're trapped in Ohio and the Midwest post-graduation.


I studied my ass off and only focused on LSAT prep during that time. The chance of me making any improvement isn't very high due to the fact that I won't have nearly as much time to study now as I had then. I began with a 152 on my first practice and plateaued around 164 a few weeks before the test. I got my score back and moved on with the application process.

There is no downside other than the registration fee and your time. The downside to messing up lawl skool is non-dischargeable debt. Think about it.

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romothesavior
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:11 pm

Even assuming that you can't improve, going into debt for a mediocre regional school where you have no ties is not the answer.

If you are committed to doing this law school thing (which I think you should seriously reconsider), you need to go for dirt cheap in a market where you want to work. And if you take on stips, you better be ready to drop out if you lose your scholarship. These schools are bad ideas.

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catholicgirl
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Re: Case Westerm Reserve University v. Seattle University

Postby catholicgirl » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:16 pm

romothesavior wrote: These schools are bad ideas.




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