UChicago or NYU?

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Doorkeeper » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:40 pm

booboo wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I'm in the same position (I'm in at Columbia but not really considering it and waiting on Harvard). I'm torn between UChi's small class size, academic/theoretical orientation, and increased courseload availability outside of the law school, and NYU's better faculty, stronger focus in my subject area, and better recent non-biglaw placement rates. NYU is also pouring huge amounts of resources into a few administrative issues that are important to me and the student body definitely seemed more relaxed and welcoming. Probably going to choose NYU, but it's a tough call and I only have a day to choose.


Every top school is academic/theoretical. NYU is undoubtedly so.

Eh, yes and no. I talked with multiple faculty members at both schools and I definitely got a sense that Chicago professors were more collaborative and wiling to help each other out/workshop papers among each other.

chasgoose
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby chasgoose » Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:42 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Wait, why do people assume that the lower grade would be in LRW? Maybe LRW will boost my grades, no?


Well it might, but it might not. Also, at either place the LRW classes can turn into a time suck which can wreak havoc on your performance in your other more substantive classes. At NYU it's very nice to be able to remind myself when I am diving too far down the Lawyering rabbit hole that this isn't for a grade and I just have to get it finished no matter what the quality so I can do my other more important work. You can't really do that at Chicago. LRW won't boost your grades unless A) you don't do very well in your other classes or B) you spend the extra time and effort required to get rid of typos and thoroughly clean up your writing and make sure you have perfect citations (which for most people is going to be significant).

Also, the size thing isn't a big deal. You have 90 person sections and smaller Lawyering groups that create a somewhat smaller community within the 1L class. Yes, I don't know everyone at NYU, but I have more than enough close friends. Most substantive courses are going to be in large lecture formats where the professor will barely know you. It doesn't really make a difference whether there are 60 people in your CivPro class or 90.

I really would recommend going to NYU in your situation. Every factor you have listed makes NYU seem like the better choice. Also, Chicago is not for everyone. Hyde Park feels MAD isolated, especially to someone used to living in NYC. Hyde Park is not like downtown Chicago, I would compare it more to the far reaches of Queens/Brooklyn or like Jersey City/Hoboken (altho those still have more to do). There is not much around the campus (especially where the law school is) and most housing seems to be 1-2 miles away. Also the small size could increase that sense of isolation if you don't find yourself clicking with enough people in your class. I'm not saying Chicago is a bad place, but it's definitely not for everyone (I would go completely insane there). NYU is one-size-fits all where you can find some people and some things to do in NYC that will make you happy.

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knickerbocker
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby knickerbocker » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:35 pm

Any current NYU or UChicago students want to jump in here?
I visited UChicago recently, and it's pretty nice. Rather, the law school itself and Regents is nice. The rest of Hyde Park isn't, but if you live in a nice or ok building, you'll be fine.
My question is this: does UChicago open up more doors in terms of clerkships and elite law New York law firms (Wachtel, Davis Polk, Cravath, etc.). There are obviously more NYU grads at such firms; however; when one adjusts for law school class size and geographic placement, it seems that UChicago does significantly better at those firms than does NYU.

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Nelson
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:39 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Any current NYU or UChicago students want to jump in here?
I visited UChicago recently, and it's pretty nice. Rather, the law school itself and Regents is nice. The rest of Hyde Park isn't, but if you live in a nice or ok building, you'll be fine.
My question is this: does UChicago open up more doors in terms of clerkships and elite law New York law firms (Wachtel, Davis Polk, Cravath, etc.). There are obviously more NYU grads at such firms; however; when one adjusts for law school class size and geographic placement, it seems that UChicago does significantly better at those firms than does NYU.

Peer schools. Nobody can tell you any more than that. The sample sizes are too small and nobody has data that granular. Your individual law school performance and resume are going to determine whether you can a job at those firms, not which of CCN you choose.

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knickerbocker
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby knickerbocker » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:45 pm

Actually, I looked at firm websites to see how many of their associates graduated from NYU and UChicago and, like I said, the differences are stark if one adjusts for class size and geographic placement.

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Nelson
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Nelson » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:51 pm

knickerbocker wrote:Actually, I looked at firm websites to see how many of their associates graduated from NYU and UChicago and, like I said, the differences are stark if one adjusts for class size and geographic placement.

How do you do that in anything approaching a systematic way?

If you think Chicago gives you some edge, then just go there. Nobody is going to have proof of what you're asking one way or another. Current students at either school are going to give you a similar answer about OCI cutoffs for those firms and for placement in general.

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moonman157
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby moonman157 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:55 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:I'm in the same position (I'm in at Columbia but not really considering it and waiting on Harvard). I'm torn between UChi's small class size, academic/theoretical orientation, and increased courseload availability outside of the law school, and NYU's better faculty, stronger focus in my subject area, and better recent non-biglaw placement rates. NYU is also pouring huge amounts of resources into a few administrative issues that are important to me and the student body definitely seemed more relaxed and welcoming. Probably going to choose NYU, but it's a tough call and I only have a day to choose.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the thing UChi was known for (other than its intellectual atmosphere) was its faculty. I'm sure they both have tremendous faculty, but it was my understanding that UChi places a special emphasis on the quality of their professors.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:57 pm

moonman157 wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:I'm in the same position (I'm in at Columbia but not really considering it and waiting on Harvard). I'm torn between UChi's small class size, academic/theoretical orientation, and increased courseload availability outside of the law school, and NYU's better faculty, stronger focus in my subject area, and better recent non-biglaw placement rates. NYU is also pouring huge amounts of resources into a few administrative issues that are important to me and the student body definitely seemed more relaxed and welcoming. Probably going to choose NYU, but it's a tough call and I only have a day to choose.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the thing UChi was known for (other than its intellectual atmosphere) was its faculty. I'm sure they both have tremendous faculty, but it was my understanding that UChi places a special emphasis on the quality of their professors.

In general, it's debatable and highly dependent on the sub-area of law that you're interested in. Historically, and even within the past 10 years, I think it would be Chicago, no contest, but NYU has been making some very big lateral hires that has boosted the faculty quality. I say that they are now about even, but at least for what I'm interested in NYU has the edge.

For knickerbocker's purposes, peer schools are peer. Chicago definitely wins in per capita, but per capita isn't really the best metric when you have over 25-30% of NYU students not going the biglaw route. Go to the school you think you will enjoy the most.

JohnDorian
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby JohnDorian » Mon May 14, 2012 5:45 pm

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Last edited by JohnDorian on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

scat_cat
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby scat_cat » Fri May 18, 2012 5:25 pm

chasgoose wrote:knickerbocker wrote:
Wait, why do people assume that the lower grade would be in LRW? Maybe LRW will boost my grades, no?


Well it might, but it might not. Also, at either place the LRW classes can turn into a time suck which can wreak havoc on your performance in your other more substantive classes. At NYU it's very nice to be able to remind myself when I am diving too far down the Lawyering rabbit hole that this isn't for a grade and I just have to get it finished no matter what the quality so I can do my other more important work. You can't really do that at Chicago. LRW won't boost your grades unless A) you don't do very well in your other classes or B) you spend the extra time and effort required to get rid of typos and thoroughly clean up your writing and make sure you have perfect citations (which for most people is going to be significant).


Recent UChi grad here. If you think you're a good writer (i.e., you have a writing background and/or majored in a writing-heavy subject in undergrad), I highly recommend the graded LRW. The legal writing course has a different grading scale than other classes, which makes it more likely to help than hurt you GPA-wise, and there are writing prizes for the best brief etc. For me, at least, I knew I wasn't really going to let myself slack off on a paper, whether it was graded or not, and getting a good grade in LRW helped me distinguish myself at OCI.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hyde Park is not boring. What it lacks: good restaurants, inexpensive groceries, and late-night mass transit. What it has: cheap classical concerts in adorable venues, cheap and truly excellent plays at the professional Court Theatre, very cheap and plentiful movies at the student-run Doc Films (and the new movie theater might open while you're a student), endearing dive bars, a public outdoor ice skating rink, access to the lake and lakefront bike path/running trail, beautiful and/or interesting architecture, a fascinating sense of history, and relatively inexpensive rents (compared to the North Side--but wildly inexpensive compared to the Village). I lived there all three years and I miss it.

NYU may have a narrow edge on faculty, thanks to the recent poachings. Samaha was a huge loss (and gain for NYU); Cox was a smaller but still significant loss. But Chicago hires them young and hungry, and my sense is that professors at UChi are more likely to be accessible and really invested in you and your future.

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Flash
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Flash » Fri May 18, 2012 10:10 pm

scat_cat wrote:
chasgoose wrote:knickerbocker wrote:
Wait, why do people assume that the lower grade would be in LRW? Maybe LRW will boost my grades, no?


Well it might, but it might not. Also, at either place the LRW classes can turn into a time suck which can wreak havoc on your performance in your other more substantive classes. At NYU it's very nice to be able to remind myself when I am diving too far down the Lawyering rabbit hole that this isn't for a grade and I just have to get it finished no matter what the quality so I can do my other more important work. You can't really do that at Chicago. LRW won't boost your grades unless A) you don't do very well in your other classes or B) you spend the extra time and effort required to get rid of typos and thoroughly clean up your writing and make sure you have perfect citations (which for most people is going to be significant).



I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hyde Park is not boring. What it lacks: good restaurants, inexpensive groceries, and late-night mass transit. What it has: cheap classical concerts in adorable venues, cheap and truly excellent plays at the professional Court Theatre, very cheap and plentiful movies at the student-run Doc Films (and the new movie theater might open while you're a student), endearing dive bars, a public outdoor ice skating rink, access to the lake and lakefront bike path/running trail, beautiful and/or interesting architecture, a fascinating sense of history, and relatively inexpensive rents (compared to the North Side--but wildly inexpensive compared to the Village). I lived there all three years and I miss it.
.

Hyde Park is a boring, pretentious shithole.

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Emma.
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Emma. » Fri May 18, 2012 11:01 pm

Flash wrote:
scat_cat wrote:
chasgoose wrote:knickerbocker wrote:
Wait, why do people assume that the lower grade would be in LRW? Maybe LRW will boost my grades, no?


Well it might, but it might not. Also, at either place the LRW classes can turn into a time suck which can wreak havoc on your performance in your other more substantive classes. At NYU it's very nice to be able to remind myself when I am diving too far down the Lawyering rabbit hole that this isn't for a grade and I just have to get it finished no matter what the quality so I can do my other more important work. You can't really do that at Chicago. LRW won't boost your grades unless A) you don't do very well in your other classes or B) you spend the extra time and effort required to get rid of typos and thoroughly clean up your writing and make sure you have perfect citations (which for most people is going to be significant).



I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hyde Park is not boring. What it lacks: good restaurants, inexpensive groceries, and late-night mass transit. What it has: cheap classical concerts in adorable venues, cheap and truly excellent plays at the professional Court Theatre, very cheap and plentiful movies at the student-run Doc Films (and the new movie theater might open while you're a student), endearing dive bars, a public outdoor ice skating rink, access to the lake and lakefront bike path/running trail, beautiful and/or interesting architecture, a fascinating sense of history, and relatively inexpensive rents (compared to the North Side--but wildly inexpensive compared to the Village). I lived there all three years and I miss it.
.

Hyde Park is a boring, pretentious shithole.


Bitter UChi Spring Quarter 1L is bitter.

OP, if you want to talk about my impressions of UChi feel free to PM me. Personally I think NYU is a better choice due to your family/SO situation. No one can really parse out the differences in terms of your opportunities at v10 NYC firms between the two schools, and even if UChi does give you marginally better options, that benefit is probably outweighed by the benefits of being happier through being close to your SO.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat May 19, 2012 12:05 am

Absolutely NYU without question. They're equal schools with different markets, and NYU places in the one you want.

JohnDorian
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby JohnDorian » Mon May 21, 2012 2:53 am

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Last edited by JohnDorian on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon May 21, 2012 7:18 am

OP: You dislike Hyde Park & you want to remain with your SO in NYC. The answer seems obvious to me.

Obviously both law schools place well in NYC biglaw.

Do you want comfort & familiarity during your first year of law school, or do you crave a new experience ? Your first post in this thread suggests that NYC is your first love & you're enjoying the relationship. Why disturb a good thing ?

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Flash
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Re: UChicago or NYU?

Postby Flash » Tue May 22, 2012 8:18 pm

Emma. wrote:
Flash wrote:
scat_cat wrote:
chasgoose wrote:knickerbocker wrote:
Wait, why do people assume that the lower grade would be in LRW? Maybe LRW will boost my grades, no?


Well it might, but it might not. Also, at either place the LRW classes can turn into a time suck which can wreak havoc on your performance in your other more substantive classes. At NYU it's very nice to be able to remind myself when I am diving too far down the Lawyering rabbit hole that this isn't for a grade and I just have to get it finished no matter what the quality so I can do my other more important work. You can't really do that at Chicago. LRW won't boost your grades unless A) you don't do very well in your other classes or B) you spend the extra time and effort required to get rid of typos and thoroughly clean up your writing and make sure you have perfect citations (which for most people is going to be significant).



I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hyde Park is not boring. What it lacks: good restaurants, inexpensive groceries, and late-night mass transit. What it has: cheap classical concerts in adorable venues, cheap and truly excellent plays at the professional Court Theatre, very cheap and plentiful movies at the student-run Doc Films (and the new movie theater might open while you're a student), endearing dive bars, a public outdoor ice skating rink, access to the lake and lakefront bike path/running trail, beautiful and/or interesting architecture, a fascinating sense of history, and relatively inexpensive rents (compared to the North Side--but wildly inexpensive compared to the Village). I lived there all three years and I miss it.
.

Hyde Park is a boring, pretentious shithole.


Bitter UChi Spring Quarter 1L is bitter.

OP, if you want to talk about my impressions of UChi feel free to PM me. Personally I think NYU is a better choice due to your family/SO situation. No one can really parse out the differences in terms of your opportunities at v10 NYC firms between the two schools, and even if UChi does give you marginally better options, that benefit is probably outweighed by the benefits of being happier through being close to your SO.

I'm not bitter at all. I just don't like HP.

Chicago>>>>>>NYC in my opinion and living outside of HP let's you actually enjoy the city.




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