Syracuse v. Hofstra

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RU12345
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Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby RU12345 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:27 am

So I just got into Hofstra after being put on their wait list earlier in the year, and I just put a seat deposit down on Syracuse.
I will be paying sticker price for both these schools, but tuition money isn't that much of an issue.
I want to know which one is a better area to live, which one has more opportunities for public interest law, just which one is a better law school in general.

I think where I live, New Jersey, Syracuse has an awesome name. It's just so cold up there.

help!

and please don't tell me to retake my lsats again or not go to either.

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flem
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby flem » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:28 am

Where do you want to live? Where do you want to work? Total cost of attendance at each? LSAT/GPA?

I noticed you said sticker price - who's paying? Are you paying for living expenses? Taking on debt at all?

RU12345
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby RU12345 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:33 am

Whichever school I go to is where I'll be living. I'm not really familiar with either city too well, so I'm not sure where exactly I want to live. The only living expenses I'll be paying is for rent, food, utilities, and recreation. I plan on picking up a serving job for the weekends wherever I live.

I'm taking on ALL the debt of both these schools, but plan to pursue a job in public interest so (keeping fingers crossed) I would receive the income based repayment option thing for my loans.

RU12345
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby RU12345 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:34 am

lsat was 152 and gpa 4.0 from Rutgers University
Criminal Justice Poli Sci Double Major.

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flem
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby flem » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:36 am

RU12345 wrote:Whichever school I go to is where I'll be living. I'm not really familiar with either city too well, so I'm not sure where exactly I want to live. The only living expenses I'll be paying is for rent, food, utilities, and recreation. I plan on picking up a serving job for the weekends wherever I live.

I'm taking on ALL the debt of both these schools, but plan to pursue a job in public interest so (keeping fingers crossed) I would receive the income based repayment option thing for my loans.


1) Unless you're part time, the ABA mandates you can't work your 1L year
2) That should be scary. Schools in this territory have loan repayment assistance programs (LRAPs) that are hard to qualify for. They have smaller endowments and less resources than the top schools, so the criteria is strict to qualify. IBR (income based repayment) is different, but you should avoid that if possible as it just creates a ticking time bomb of debt as your debtload balloons.
3) Do you have prior experience working for a non-profit? PI jobs are more competitive to get than good firm jobs unless you're talking about public defense, and even that isn't a cake walk to get. What if you decide you want to go the firm route and you're staring 200K worth of debt in the face?

RU12345 wrote:lsat was 152 and gpa 4.0 from Rutgers University
Criminal Justice Poli Sci Double Major.


Holy fuckballs retake the LSAT. As a super splitter I would literally do horrible, unspeakable things for that GPA. I know you said you don't want to, but why? It's going to open up tons of better options, or at the very least, these same options for a much lower cost.

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swagu
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby swagu » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:06 am

RU12345,

Believe it or not, I'm in the exact same situation as you. Put down my deposit at Syraucse, and then randomly got an email today from Hofstra saying I've been accepted. I'm from New York (just north of NYC), so I like the proximity to home as well as to NYC.

I'm not really sure what to do either.

I have not gone to visit Hofstra but I think I may have to rush over there soon to give it a look.

This sucks! haha. I thought I had finally come to a decision and then of course I get thrown this curveball...

TomahawkChopper
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby TomahawkChopper » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:45 am

You guys are crazy.

Retake the damned test. If you just get a 160, you'll probably get a full scholarship to Syracuse. Isn't that worth like 200k to you? Or you'd probably get into a better school in a better location. You need to see if you want to live in a small central NY town before you go to Syracuse.

I went to school in central NY, and you don't understand what it's like if you've never spent time there. Its rural. Its isolating. Its far away from everything. It is freezing. You will go a week in the winter with the HIGH temperature not breaking single digits. You will be shoveling snow everyday for 5 months. You will scrape your windshield for 5 months. You will hopefully live in a town with a Price Chopper. Or you will drive to one. The summers are beautiful. Cazeovia is wonderful. It is not a typical CNY city. Norwich, Oneida, Utica and Binghamton are typical. They are not wonderful. They are dreadful. Many people are friendly. Many people are meth-addicts. It is a bad place to live in your 20s. It is a good place to raise a family. There are (surprisingly) some very good restaurants around. There is very little culture outside the Universities. High school sports are big. Jamesville-Dewitt and Fayetteville-Manlius have some of the best sports programs in the nation, and are pretty good schools from what I can tell. Many other public schools are very bad.

Hope this helps. I know people who absolutely love central NY. And some people that can't stand it. You need to find out which one you are. I know very few people who have a neutral opinion on it.

While you visit Syracuse, make a trip to Dinosaur BBQ. You will not be disappointed.

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The Rover
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby The Rover » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:49 am

With a 4.0 gpa you would be clinically insane to not retake the LSAT. Why don't you want to?

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futurejdgirl
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby futurejdgirl » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:20 pm

Omg. Seriously retake the LSAT. I have a super shitty GPA, 162 LSAT and Hofstra gave me a full ride. It is so worth it to retake... not THAT hard to raise your LSAT. I am definitely not an elitist or one of those T-14 people but you have to consider what a difference it makes!

Paul Campos
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby Paul Campos » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:31 pm

swagu wrote:RU12345,

Believe it or not, I'm in the exact same situation as you. Put down my deposit at Syraucse, and then randomly got an email today from Hofstra saying I've been accepted. .



This piece of information is far from random. What it suggests is that pretty soon law schools are going to start kidnapping people if necessary.

brcsurf1
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby brcsurf1 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:10 pm

Similar boat as you. 4.0 in psych and English from RU. Go knights! With my 156 LSAT many people are telling me to retake and i understand why. And I don't want to either. Look who your asking... Tls users are other applicants like you and me. They have the same info available to them as we do and thats the us news rankings.

What you need to do is figure out if your admits are good fits for you. I really liked Rutgers Newark at my campus visit and have decided to go there, turning down Cardozo Drexel and Minnesota. What it comes down to: you need to find an environment where you can succeed which may not be a highly ranked school.

Lastly, if you are like me and worried about succeeding in law school, unfortunately only time can tell. Work hard, I keep telling myself, and results will follow.

Ps Rutgers has an excellent pi program, says some rankings. Pm if you wanna chat

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quiver
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby quiver » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:26 pm

brcsurf1 wrote:Look who your asking... Tls users are other applicants like you and me. They have the same info available to them as we do and thats the us news rankings.
US news rankings have nothing to do with it. It's all about employment. And fwiw, most of the people who give advice in this forum are law students.

brcsurf1 wrote:Work hard, I keep telling myself, and results will follow.
Maybe, maybe not. I'm not trying to discourage you but everyone works hard in law school and you're all graded against each other.

rad lulz
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:33 pm

Check out Law School Transparency and the employment numbers of both. Neither are good.

From Hofstra: At least 20% of those employed are working part time 9 months after graduation. Only about 70% are working FT. This is not to say those working full time are even lawyers. 22% of those employed are in "business and industry." Since most businesses don't hire new grads, this usually encompasses stuff like retail or jobs you can just get with your undergrad degree. 9.7% are in academia; since law professor hiring is usually done from top schools, academia usually means you couldn't get a job and went to pile on another degree. Of half of the class that works at firms, half of those work at firms of 2-10. This is not usually a good outcome, for a lot of reasons (none of those firms pay what you would need to service big debt), but also because it encompasses recent grads who band together with other recent grads and just set up shop (which is a shitty idea, since law school doesn't teach you how to practice). 20 grads out of 352(!) got jobs in large law firms (100+). Also note that Hofstra doesn't say how many people got jobs that required bar passage. This is a bad sign. http://law.hofstra.edu/academics/careerservices/employmentstatistics/index.html

Syracuse provides pathetic data, but what we do know is that only 81% were employed 9 months after graduation. This does not mean that 81% got jobs as lawyers, and it does not mean that all the jobs were full time. The 31% in business should also raise some red flags for the reasons mentioned above. Also, Syracuse failed to make the latest NLJ 250 list (decent approximation for big law); chances at large firms are almost nil. --LinkRemoved--

So due unbelievably shitty employment outcomes, retake or don't go.

rad lulz
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:35 pm

I know you want PI, but it's super competitive right now due to loan forgiveness, so the non-PI stats are VERY relevant.

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cedarseoul
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby cedarseoul » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:31 pm

OP, I have personal experience with the high GPA / low LSAT situation. My UG GPA was 3.93, but my first LSAT score was an abysmal 153. I chalk it up to not studying (at all) and poor timing.

Anyway, I did the PowerScore books rather casually (not full-time studying, which is what I should have done I suppose) and bumped my score up to 164. I got a bunch of full tuition offers this cycle (including to Hofstra, incidentally). Ended up choosing IU-B w/ full scholarship.

I'm not HYS material, but that extra few months of studying made the difference between TTT at cost and a solid regional school for free. If I had studied a bit harder, maybe T14 would have come in play.

Retake. And spend your year off doing something fascinating or inspiring. I moved to Asia, for example: you can't beat the barbecue over here.

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crossarmant
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby crossarmant » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:13 pm

RU12345 wrote:lsat was 152 and gpa 4.0 from Rutgers University
Criminal Justice Poli Sci Double Major.


Do not deposit anywhere and work your ass off to raise you LSAT by a TON. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT WASTE A GODDAMN 4.0!

Seriously, working hard for 2 months to up your LSAT will do infinitely more than working hard for 3 years at either of those schools. It is absolute foolishness to take either of those schools with that GPA.

As someone who had a ~2.0 GPA, a little bit of me dies inside whenever someone refuses to retake. If I had a 4.0, I would've been retaking until I got a 180. Everytime a 4.0 refuses to retake, a puppy dies.

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futurejdgirl
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby futurejdgirl » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:07 pm

crossarmant wrote:
RU12345 wrote:lsat was 152 and gpa 4.0 from Rutgers University
Criminal Justice Poli Sci Double Major.


Do not deposit anywhere and work your ass off to raise you LSAT by a TON. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT WASTE A GODDAMN 4.0!

Seriously, working hard for 2 months to up your LSAT will do infinitely more than working hard for 3 years at either of those schools. It is absolute foolishness to take either of those schools with that GPA.

As someone who had a ~2.0 GPA, a little bit of me dies inside whenever someone refuses to retake. If I had a 4.0, I would've been retaking until I got a 180. Everytime a 4.0 refuses to retake, a puppy dies.


I couldn't have said it more perfectly.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Syracuse v. Hofstra

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:22 pm

Bookmark this thread. I will bet my savings account, current salary at my firm and future salary at whatever employment I will have that looking back on this in 5 years you will severely regret going to either of those schools at sticker.

Speaking from experience, if you're taking out any more than 50k TOTAL for a school, it best be a T30 at minimum. And this is coming from someone who is not as debt adverse as the rest of TLS (as in, I'm cool with sticker for certain T30's non-t14 schools).




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