Sit out or enroll?

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Tadatsune
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:29 am

Nelson wrote:
Adm.Doppleganger wrote:Michigan is a peer school with Cornell in the same sense that CCN is a peer group with Mich. In that it is not. Sure they're peers in being lower T14s. Cornell is actually normally considered peers with the DGN group, whilst Michigan is peer with VPB. It seems like OP wants to break into MVPB.

Job prospects in the lower T14 are mostly interchangeable. The MVPB vs. DNCG distinction is totally out of date.


Errrg. I'm not sure the numbers support that assertion.

I'd be much happier at P than at G, for instance.

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Nelson
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Nelson » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:36 am

Tadatsune wrote:
Nelson wrote:
Adm.Doppleganger wrote:Michigan is a peer school with Cornell in the same sense that CCN is a peer group with Mich. In that it is not. Sure they're peers in being lower T14s. Cornell is actually normally considered peers with the DGN group, whilst Michigan is peer with VPB. It seems like OP wants to break into MVPB.

Job prospects in the lower T14 are mostly interchangeable. The MVPB vs. DNCG distinction is totally out of date.


Errrg. I'm not sure the numbers support that assertion.

I'd be much happier at P than at G, for instance.

My point was that arbitrarily dividing schools into two tiers like that doesn't make sense. Some schools in that grouping are better at placement than others, but Northwestern is one of the better schools for job placement and it's in the lower tier. Most of the placement differences have more to do with class size effects (Michigan, UVA, and especially GULC are huge) and location effects (Berkeley is stuck in a terrible CA market, the Michigan OCI bidding problems), than any difference in placement power or "prestige".

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Tadatsune
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:24 pm

Nelson wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:
Nelson wrote:
Adm.Doppleganger wrote:Michigan is a peer school with Cornell in the same sense that CCN is a peer group with Mich. In that it is not. Sure they're peers in being lower T14s. Cornell is actually normally considered peers with the DGN group, whilst Michigan is peer with VPB. It seems like OP wants to break into MVPB.

Job prospects in the lower T14 are mostly interchangeable. The MVPB vs. DNCG distinction is totally out of date.


Errrg. I'm not sure the numbers support that assertion.

I'd be much happier at P than at G, for instance.

My point was that arbitrarily dividing schools into two tiers like that doesn't make sense. Some schools in that grouping are better at placement than others, but Northwestern is one of the better schools for job placement and it's in the lower tier. Most of the placement differences have more to do with class size effects (Michigan, UVA, and especially GULC are huge) and location effects (Berkeley is stuck in a terrible CA market, the Michigan OCI bidding problems), than any difference in placement power or "prestige".


Gotcha.

It's nice to have that broken out, because otherwise it might not be clear to folks reading this.

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99.9luft
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby 99.9luft » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:36 pm

flem wrote:I'd throw a deposit into GULC and ride the fuck out of every waitlist you're on. Worst case scenario you just eat the seat deposit.


I would do this and if it leads nowhere, take an extra year (don't worry about being 28, no one cares about your age once you're a BigLaw associate - same misery across generations, lol)

woeisme
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:06 pm

Adm.Doppleganger wrote:Michigan is a peer school with Cornell in the same sense that CCN is a peer group with Mich. In that it is not. Sure they're peers in being lower T14s. Cornell is actually normally considered peers with the DGN group, whilst Michigan is peer with VPB. It seems like OP wants to break into MVPB.


Cute. There are people (like you) that obviously subscribe to the above thinking (mostly MVPB students themselves). Employers do not, nor do most people that have kept up with the trends of legal education and the employment opportunities for recent grads.

Doesn't sound like you're new to this thing since you accurately quoted the MVPB DCNG groupings. Penn might be slightly ahead of the bunch, and GULC slightly behind, but for pretty much all intents and purposes, these schools are interchangeable.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:45 pm

woeisme wrote:
Adm.Doppleganger wrote:Michigan is a peer school with Cornell in the same sense that CCN is a peer group with Mich. In that it is not. Sure they're peers in being lower T14s. Cornell is actually normally considered peers with the DGN group, whilst Michigan is peer with VPB. It seems like OP wants to break into MVPB.


Cute. There are people (like you) that obviously subscribe to the above thinking (mostly MVPB students themselves). Employers do not, nor do most people that have kept up with the trends of legal education and the employment opportunities for recent grads.

Doesn't sound like you're new to this thing since you accurately quoted the MVPB DCNG groupings. Penn might be slightly ahead of the bunch, and GULC slightly behind, but for pretty much all intents and purposes, these schools are interchangeable.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... Bd3c&gid=3

Obviously, one shouldn't really on a single year's worth of data alone (compare Cornell's 2010 performance w/ 2011), but there seems to be more than a "slight" difference between P and G.

nailglue
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby nailglue » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:45 pm

99.9luft wrote:
flem wrote:I'd throw a deposit into GULC and ride the fuck out of every waitlist you're on. Worst case scenario you just eat the seat deposit.


I would do this and if it leads nowhere, take an extra year (don't worry about being 28, no one cares about your age once you're a BigLaw associate - same misery across generations, lol)


Would it be better to wait to hear from Cornell and deposit there? I'd be a happier student there, I know that, and I'm pretty sure they are going to match closer to Vandy/UCLA's amounts. GULC has been a huge hassle every since I've been accepted there, including only giving me 4 days to accept/reject their scholarship offer initially.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Mr. Somebody » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:50 pm

nailglue wrote:
99.9luft wrote:
flem wrote:I'd throw a deposit into GULC and ride the fuck out of every waitlist you're on. Worst case scenario you just eat the seat deposit.


I would do this and if it leads nowhere, take an extra year (don't worry about being 28, no one cares about your age once you're a BigLaw associate - same misery across generations, lol)


Would it be better to wait to hear from Cornell and deposit there? I'd be a happier student there, I know that, and I'm pretty sure they are going to match closer to Vandy/UCLA's amounts. GULC has been a huge hassle every since I've been accepted there, including only giving me 4 days to accept/reject their scholarship offer initially.


Tell me about it.

GULC's process is stupid.

nailglue
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby nailglue » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:53 pm

Mr. Somebody wrote:Tell me about it. GULC's process is stupid.


It's honestly really turned me off of the school. I don't think they in the correct position to be pulling this crap.

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99.9luft
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby 99.9luft » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:55 pm

nailglue wrote:
99.9luft wrote:
flem wrote:I'd throw a deposit into GULC and ride the fuck out of every waitlist you're on. Worst case scenario you just eat the seat deposit.


I would do this and if it leads nowhere, take an extra year (don't worry about being 28, no one cares about your age once you're a BigLaw associate - same misery across generations, lol)


Would it be better to wait to hear from Cornell and deposit there? I'd be a happier student there, I know that, and I'm pretty sure they are going to match closer to Vandy/UCLA's amounts. GULC has been a huge hassle every since I've been accepted there, including only giving me 4 days to accept/reject their scholarship offer initially.


Definitely deposit at Cornell, then.

Cornell's location sucks, but the kids are nicer than at GULC, even if you had no preference between the two. Also, Cornell kicked ass at BigLaw placement last year. Let me know how everything pans out, man. I have the same exact GPA (and hopefully a similar LSAT soon). :D

nailglue
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby nailglue » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:08 pm

99.9luft wrote:Definitely deposit at Cornell, then.

Cornell's location sucks, but the kids are nicer than at GULC, even if you had no preference between the two. Also, Cornell kicked ass at BigLaw placement last year. Let me know how everything pans out, man. I have the same exact GPA (and hopefully a similar LSAT soon). :D


As a collegiate wrestling fan, Cornell has a least one great reason for me to tough it out there. I think I'm going to do the June re-take and see how I do as well. If it's a decent improvement, I'll definitely decide to sit out this cycle and go for the 2012-2013 run.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:15 pm

nailglue wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Definitely deposit at Cornell, then.

Cornell's location sucks, but the kids are nicer than at GULC, even if you had no preference between the two. Also, Cornell kicked ass at BigLaw placement last year. Let me know how everything pans out, man. I have the same exact GPA (and hopefully a similar LSAT soon). :D


As a collegiate wrestling fan, Cornell has a least one great reason for me to tough it out there. I think I'm going to do the June re-take and see how I do as well. If it's a decent improvement, I'll definitely decide to sit out this cycle and go for the 2012-2013 run.


Sounds like a good decision.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:08 pm

From the other thread:

bk1 wrote:Since there's all this hurr durr regarding peer-ness and nobody has actually linked multiple years of NLJ250 data, I'll do it.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=181578#p5364240


So, that's a ~20% difference between P and G over 5 years of NLJ250 hiring. There is also a ~10% difference between C and G, for the OP's benefit. I'm not seeing this as "interchangeable" or "slight."
From this data, it's looking like PN>MVBCD>G, with the caveat, I suppose, that NU's student body can leverage it's collective WE.

I should note Cornell's numbers spiked for c/o 2010, and dropped dramatically for c/o 2011. That said, I still think the OP made the right choice.

nailglue
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Re: Sit out or enroll?

Postby nailglue » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:06 pm

Thanks, I officially declined Georgetown today citing the huge size of the class and their unwillingness to compete with my other scholarship offers/not giving me adequate time to contemplate their offer (4 days originally). Cornell, on the other hand, is bending over backwards trying to compete with these other schools and extending my seat deposit until I hear anything back officially.

I'm still riding waitlists all summer, but I'm not sure URM will play a role in that, so for anything outside the T6, I'm a slight boost in LSAT but probably a greater drop in average GPA.




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