Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

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Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Yes
92
67%
No
46
33%
 
Total votes: 138

shoeshine
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby shoeshine » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:31 pm

I think you should do it if you really like it and don't mind spending a significant portion of your savings on it.

It sounds like you want CA big law and B will give you a better shot than your other options.

I would usually answer no to this question but if someone has almost half the COA saved up and doesn't mind spending their own money I think that the COA calculus changes. It really becomes a matter of preference at that point. If like B, go there. If you didn't like it I would go to M.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:46 pm

shoeshine wrote:I think you should do it if you really like it and don't mind spending a significant portion of your savings on it.

It sounds like you want CA big law and B will give you a better shot than your other options.

I would usually answer no to this question but if someone has almost half the COA saved up and doesn't mind spending their own money I think that the COA calculus changes. It really becomes a matter of preference at that point. If like B, go there. If you didn't like it I would go to M.

TCR. It's worth it because you don't have to pay back interest on 100k in loans.

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RationalHeretic23
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby RationalHeretic23 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:50 pm

Shaggier1 wrote:Speaking generally, all you are really asking is "Is a T10 worth sticker?" I say that because, for all the flack, Berkeley really doesn't cost much more than other T10's.

Speaking more specifically to your situation, that depends entirely on what you want to do. Do you want to work in BigLaw? If so, where? And do you have any sense for the practice area you might like to focus on?

But really, you are in a very fortunate position. Between your savings and your parents' support, you have nearly $145K to work with. You are not going to have much debt upon graduation no matter where you go.

I say all of these things as someone who happily signed up to pay sticker at Boalt (though they later gave me in-state plus an additional ~$20K per year in financial aid), and is now headed to a V5. Do I like the debt? No. Am I glad I went to Berkeley? Every day, my friend...


Hey, you said you signed up to pay sticker, but Berkeley later gave you 20k per year in financial aid? How exactly did this work? I have a matching scholarship, but I can't decide whether it's enough or not to go to Berkeley. If I thought I might have a chance at more money in the future that might affect my decision.

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somethingElse
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby somethingElse » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:10 pm

four year old thread bro

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gsy987
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby gsy987 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:02 am

RationalHeretic23 wrote:
Shaggier1 wrote:Speaking generally, all you are really asking is "Is a T10 worth sticker?" I say that because, for all the flack, Berkeley really doesn't cost much more than other T10's.

Speaking more specifically to your situation, that depends entirely on what you want to do. Do you want to work in BigLaw? If so, where? And do you have any sense for the practice area you might like to focus on?

But really, you are in a very fortunate position. Between your savings and your parents' support, you have nearly $145K to work with. You are not going to have much debt upon graduation no matter where you go.

I say all of these things as someone who happily signed up to pay sticker at Boalt (though they later gave me in-state plus an additional ~$20K per year in financial aid), and is now headed to a V5. Do I like the debt? No. Am I glad I went to Berkeley? Every day, my friend...


Hey, you said you signed up to pay sticker, but Berkeley later gave you 20k per year in financial aid? How exactly did this work? I have a matching scholarship, but I can't decide whether it's enough or not to go to Berkeley. If I thought I might have a chance at more money in the future that might affect my decision.


I'll tell you what makes me a bit nervous about OP... they mentioned earlier about some vague career goals involving big law. If you're going to take on debt to go to law school and you don't really have a clear idea of why you're going in, that seems like a hefty investment to make (even if a lot of the bill is paid for) for an unclear reward.

If you're dead set on big law, then I think you'd do fine at Boalt. However, i'd also seriously consider Cornell -- 64% of their class went to biglaw vs. 48% for boalt and Cornell also wins on the LST employment score stats (which granted, probably overrate Cornell slightly, but still.)

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miku015
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby miku015 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:16 pm

Wow, TLS hivemind certainly had a very different perspective 4 years ago. How did they have 3 pages worth of posts without multiple posters screaming at the OP that he's an idiot and should retake/not go to law school/take the $ elsewhere? Nowadays, it feels like anyone that even remotely suggests sticker at a T14 school would be tarred and feathered.

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somethingElse
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby somethingElse » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:19 pm

Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

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cron1834
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby cron1834 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:25 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.

krads153
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby krads153 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:30 pm

cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.

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RationalHeretic23
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby RationalHeretic23 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:35 pm

krads153 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.


Actually Berkeley's employment numbers have been looking pretty solid recently: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/em ... tatistics/

krads153
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby krads153 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:37 pm

RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.


Actually Berkeley's employment numbers have been looking pretty solid recently: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/em ... tatistics/


I'm just more so looking at the class of 2015 biglaw/fed clerk placement: 56%. But it might have been worse in 2012 since that was one of the hard years....

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somethingElse
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby somethingElse » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:38 pm

cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


Very good point.

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RationalHeretic23
Posts: 90
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby RationalHeretic23 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:44 pm

krads153 wrote:
RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.


Actually Berkeley's employment numbers have been looking pretty solid recently: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/em ... tatistics/


I'm just more so looking at the class of 2015 biglaw/fed clerk placement: 56%. But it might have been worse in 2012 since that was one of the hard years....


Right but just looking at biglaw/fed clerk is not really an accurate way of looking at things when it comes to Berkeley, right? Berkeley has a huge self-selection of students going into PI, probably more so than any other T-14 school. That will obviously skew the numbers. But even with all the self-selection into PI, roughly half of Berkeley grads go into big law and Berkeley's clerkship numbers for last year were still one of the best around at 14%.

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KiltedKicker
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby KiltedKicker » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:02 pm

RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.


Actually Berkeley's employment numbers have been looking pretty solid recently: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/em ... tatistics/


I'm just more so looking at the class of 2015 biglaw/fed clerk placement: 56%. But it might have been worse in 2012 since that was one of the hard years....


Right but just looking at biglaw/fed clerk is not really an accurate way of looking at things when it comes to Berkeley, right? Berkeley has a huge self-selection of students going into PI, probably more so than any other T-14 school. That will obviously skew the numbers. But even with all the self-selection into PI, roughly half of Berkeley grads go into big law and Berkeley's clerkship numbers for last year were still one of the best around at 14%.


The Bay Area also has a lot of firms that are smaller/boutique but still do good work and pay market rates. Not saying Berkeley's numbers are perfect, but their biglaw numbers are misleading.

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miku015
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby miku015 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:15 pm

KiltedKicker wrote:
RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.


Actually Berkeley's employment numbers have been looking pretty solid recently: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/em ... tatistics/


I'm just more so looking at the class of 2015 biglaw/fed clerk placement: 56%. But it might have been worse in 2012 since that was one of the hard years....


Right but just looking at biglaw/fed clerk is not really an accurate way of looking at things when it comes to Berkeley, right? Berkeley has a huge self-selection of students going into PI, probably more so than any other T-14 school. That will obviously skew the numbers. But even with all the self-selection into PI, roughly half of Berkeley grads go into big law and Berkeley's clerkship numbers for last year were still one of the best around at 14%.


The Bay Area also has a lot of firms that are smaller/boutique but still do good work and pay market rates. Not saying Berkeley's numbers are perfect, but their biglaw numbers are misleading.


I seriously want to figure out where those people that went to law firms < 50 people last year at Berkeley ended up at. If they really did end up at boutique law firms then their actual "biglaw" #s should be higher.

krads153
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby krads153 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:19 pm

KiltedKicker wrote:
RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
RationalHeretic23 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Well, tbf, the OP had 100k in savings plus 30-45k from his/her parents.

Yep, plus the school (like all others) has raised costs, while salaries have not climbed. OP was NOT looking at $275k of debt.


This, plus I think job placement might be worse now at Boalt.....but don't quote me on that.


Actually Berkeley's employment numbers have been looking pretty solid recently: https://www.law.berkeley.edu/careers/em ... tatistics/


I'm just more so looking at the class of 2015 biglaw/fed clerk placement: 56%. But it might have been worse in 2012 since that was one of the hard years....


Right but just looking at biglaw/fed clerk is not really an accurate way of looking at things when it comes to Berkeley, right? Berkeley has a huge self-selection of students going into PI, probably more so than any other T-14 school. That will obviously skew the numbers. But even with all the self-selection into PI, roughly half of Berkeley grads go into big law and Berkeley's clerkship numbers for last year were still one of the best around at 14%.


The Bay Area also has a lot of firms that are smaller/boutique but still do good work and pay market rates. Not saying Berkeley's numbers are perfect, but their biglaw numbers are misleading.


The same could be said for a lot of mid sized firms in flyover which probably aren't counted in other T-14's stats.........a lot of mid sized firms in like Memphis, Vegas, Texas markets, Phoenix, etc. pay $120k starting with much better hours than biglaw and low COL. I would assume that boutique in the Bay Area (aka a primary market) has worse QOL and relatively shitty pay compared to COL, at least relative to mid sized firms in flyover.

So yeah by a lot of metrics mid sized firms in flyover >>>> primary market firms, period. But that doesn't help the Berkeley argument.

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cron1834
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Re: Is Berkeley Worth Sticker?

Postby cron1834 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:06 pm

Berkeley has fallen below Mich in biglaw and clerking, ipso facto they suck hard. That said, if I was rich and wanted to work in California, I'd give it a go.




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