Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

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annaapril
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Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby annaapril » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:50 am

I have applied to schools around the midwest region(except for Emory) because my husband is currently working in Detroit, Michigan. After graduating from law school, I would like to work in Chicago or near Detroit. Since my husband works for an automotive supplier, his job wouldn't allow him to relocate anywhere further than Chicago. Right now I have to make a decision to choose where to go among Iowa and Chicago-Kent(45K), Emory, Notre Dame and Illinois. I ruled out Chicago-Kent as an option because I don't want to limit my job prospects to Chicago only. I wonder which school would do best for me to get a job in Michigan in the future.

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jrthor10
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby jrthor10 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:38 am

annaapril wrote:I have applied to schools around the midwest region(except for Emory) because my husband is currently working in Detroit, Michigan. After graduating from law school, I would like to work in Chicago or near Detroit. Since my husband works for an automotive supplier, his job wouldn't allow him to relocate anywhere further than Chicago. Right now I have to make a decision to choose where to go among Iowa and Chicago-Kent(45K), Emory, Notre Dame and Illinois. I ruled out Chicago-Kent as an option because I don't want to limit my job prospects to Chicago only. I wonder which school would do best for me to get a job in Michigan in the future.


Assuming sticker, I would get rid of Emory. They decide between ND and Illinois. My take would be ND, but visit and see which town you like better.

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flem
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby flem » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:48 am

Sticker at ND?

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blurbz
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby blurbz » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:10 am

I think it comes down to price between Illinois and ND. Illinois has better Chicago placement, but only slightly, so if ND is cheaper it's worth going there.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby Doorkeeper » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:09 am

blurbz wrote:I think it comes down to price between Illinois and ND. Illinois has better Chicago placement, but only slightly, so if ND is cheaper it's worth going there.

I agree with this. Also, are these at sticker? You should be cautious of Illinois or ND at sticker.

annaapril
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby annaapril » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:52 am

Yeah, they are all at sticker price.

Does anyone of you know if U Iowa would have much weaker presence in Michigan than U Illinois?

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flem
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby flem » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:58 am

annaapril wrote:Yeah, they are all at sticker price.

Does anyone of you know if U Iowa would have much weaker presence in Michigan than U Illinois?


1) abort

2) probably

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top30man
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby top30man » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:37 am

annaapril wrote:Yeah, they are all at sticker price.

Does anyone of you know if U Iowa would have much weaker presence in Michigan than U Illinois?

Any other options besides chicago kent that are not at sticker? Also, residency at UIUC? Do they do that 2nd and 3rd year or anything?

steubenville
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby steubenville » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:00 pm

NDLS 2L here. If you come here, you have a shot at becoming an assistant rector during 2L and 3L. It's basically the equivalent of being an RA in a residence hall, only the benefits are amazing. Between salary and tuition benefits, you get $30,000 per year. Time commitment is minimal (~15-20 hrs/week), and what sucks is the 2-week orientation over the summer. Your odds at getting the job vary on several factors: Are you a good person who enjoys living in an undergrad hall? If you are female, your odds of getting one of these positions is outstanding. If you're a male, it depends, but still ~50%. Do you hate religion or are you at least somewhat religious?

I came in at sticker, but will save about $60,000 because of this job. Not sure if UIUC offers a similar program. It probably doesn't because it doesn't have a $5 billion endowment like ND.

annaapril
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby annaapril » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:00 pm

top30man wrote:
annaapril wrote:Yeah, they are all at sticker price.

Does anyone of you know if U Iowa would have much weaker presence in Michigan than U Illinois?

Any other options besides chicago kent that are not at sticker? Also, residency at UIUC? Do they do that 2nd and 3rd year or anything?


I am a Michigan resident. I am not sure if UIUC has a policy of allowing 2nd and 3rd year students to be classified as in-state for tuition purpose. I should check that out.

All the schools except for kent are at sticker.

annaapril
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby annaapril » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:10 pm

steubenville wrote:NDLS 2L here. If you come here, you have a shot at becoming an assistant rector during 2L and 3L. It's basically the equivalent of being an RA in a residence hall, only the benefits are amazing. Between salary and tuition benefits, you get $30,000 per year. Time commitment is minimal (~15-20 hrs/week), and what sucks is the 2-week orientation over the summer. Your odds at getting the job vary on several factors: Are you a good person who enjoys living in an undergrad hall? If you are female, your odds of getting one of these positions is outstanding. If you're a male, it depends, but still ~50%. Do you hate religion or are you at least somewhat religious?

I came in at sticker, but will save about $60,000 because of this job. Not sure if UIUC offers a similar program. It probably doesn't because it doesn't have a $5 billion endowment like ND.


Thanks for sharing. RA sounds attractive since I come in at sticker. Glad to know that being a female would have a better chance of getting the position. =)

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Birdnals
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby Birdnals » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:12 pm

annaapril wrote:I am a Michigan resident. I am not sure if UIUC has a policy of allowing 2nd and 3rd year students to be classified as in-state for tuition purpose. I should check that out.



They don't. At admitted students' weekend they straight up told us all that unless you marry an IL resident, you are almost guaranteed to not get in-state for any of your three years.

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Gail
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby Gail » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:56 pm

blurbz wrote:I think it comes down to price between Illinois and ND. Illinois has better Chicago placement, but only slightly, so if ND is cheaper it's worth going there.


How true is that? I bet a lot of people from ND self-select away from Chicago.

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flem
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby flem » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:57 pm

Gail wrote:
How true is that? I bet a lot of people from ND self-select away from Chicago.


And go where?

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romothesavior
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:20 pm

At sticker? None of them. Waaaaay too much debt for the job prospects. Check out the employment data if you haven't already:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aik9aY0xMn8JdHZpRzRGNmpIVnFMMTJ0bXNRS0NBd3c#gid=5

steubenville
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby steubenville » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:34 am

flem wrote:
Gail wrote:
How true is that? I bet a lot of people from ND self-select away from Chicago.


And go where?


Umm, a lot of places. Chicago is in the shitter right now. While it's true that Chicago represents the largest concentration of ND law grads, plenty of people from CA here are going back to CA, from OH to OH, from NY to NY, from FL to FL, from TX to TX, etc. Hell, I know a 3L who just landed a job at a top Seattle firm even though she had no meaningful tie to the area. I don't want to paint a rosy picture, but if you want a non-Chicago market, you can get one by going to ND. This is particularly true if you have good ties to that market.

BearsGrl
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:40 am

steubenville wrote:
flem wrote:
Gail wrote:
How true is that? I bet a lot of people from ND self-select away from Chicago.


And go where?


Umm, a lot of places. Chicago is in the shitter right now. While it's true that Chicago represents the largest concentration of ND law grads, plenty of people from CA here are going back to CA, from OH to OH, from NY to NY, from FL to FL, from TX to TX, etc. Hell, I know a 3L who just landed a job at a top Seattle firm even though she had no meaningful tie to the area. I don't want to paint a rosy picture, but if you want a non-Chicago market, you can get one by going to ND. This is particularly true if you have good ties to that market.


As a non-ND person, I'd agree with this sentiment. ND is one of those schools that gives you cache by the ND alone. Steubenville's assessment seems in line with what I would naturally think about ND, good or bad economy.

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flem
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby flem » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:52 am

steubenville wrote:
Umm, a lot of places. Chicago is in the shitter right now. While it's true that Chicago represents the largest concentration of ND law grads, plenty of people from CA here are going back to CA, from OH to OH, from NY to NY, from FL to FL, from TX to TX, etc. Hell, I know a 3L who just landed a job at a top Seattle firm even though she had no meaningful tie to the area. I don't want to paint a rosy picture, but if you want a non-Chicago market, you can get one by going to ND. This is particularly true if you have good ties to that market.


That may be true, but Notre Dame's ranking suggests it places more regionally than nationally. According to the data on their website 29 work in Illinois, 22 in Cali and 20 in NY. So I guess they're roughly equal in that regard but that only accounts for 1/3 of the class. Coincidentally, roughly 1/3 landed biglaw positions which are in LA, NYC and Chicago.

Edit: and in 2010 only 76 graduates worked for firms at all. :shock:

BearsGrl wrote:
As a non-ND person, I'd agree with this sentiment. ND is one of those schools that gives you cache by the ND alone. Steubenville's assessment seems in line with what I would naturally think about ND, good or bad economy.


Oh good you're here

BearsGrl
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby BearsGrl » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:59 am

flem wrote:
steubenville wrote:
Umm, a lot of places. Chicago is in the shitter right now. While it's true that Chicago represents the largest concentration of ND law grads, plenty of people from CA here are going back to CA, from OH to OH, from NY to NY, from FL to FL, from TX to TX, etc. Hell, I know a 3L who just landed a job at a top Seattle firm even though she had no meaningful tie to the area. I don't want to paint a rosy picture, but if you want a non-Chicago market, you can get one by going to ND. This is particularly true if you have good ties to that market.


That may be true, but Notre Dame's ranking suggests it places more regionally than nationally. According to the data on their website 29 work in Illinois, 22 in Cali and 20 in NY. So I guess they're roughly equal in that regard but that only accounts for 1/3 of the class. Coincidentally, roughly 1/3 landed biglaw positions which are in LA, NYC and Chicago.

Edit: and in 2010 only 76 graduates worked for firms at all. :shock:

BearsGrl wrote:
As a non-ND person, I'd agree with this sentiment. ND is one of those schools that gives you cache by the ND alone. Steubenville's assessment seems in line with what I would naturally think about ND, good or bad economy.


Oh good you're here


Do you live in the Midwest at all? Have you lived on the West Coast at all? Tons of Midwest graduates relocate back to CA from Midwest schools.

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flem
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby flem » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:05 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
Do you live in the Midwest at all? Have you lived on the West Coast at all? Tons of Midwest graduates relocate back to CA from Midwest schools.


1) I did
2) Yes
3) This clearly depends on the school, connections, and individual circumstance

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romothesavior
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby romothesavior » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:56 pm

Sometimes I think we get a little tied up in these debates about comparative placement, geography, etc. (all important discussions) when we don't have to.

The bottom line is, none of these schools are worth sticker unless OP is just loaded and ~180,000-200,000 is pocket change.

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flem
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby flem » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:00 pm

romothesavior wrote:
The bottom line is, none of these schools are worth sticker unless OP is just loaded and ~180,000-200,000 is pocket change.


Agreed my bruh

illini22
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby illini22 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:43 pm

annaapril wrote:
steubenville wrote:NDLS 2L here. If you come here, you have a shot at becoming an assistant rector during 2L and 3L. It's basically the equivalent of being an RA in a residence hall, only the benefits are amazing. Between salary and tuition benefits, you get $30,000 per year. Time commitment is minimal (~15-20 hrs/week), and what sucks is the 2-week orientation over the summer. Your odds at getting the job vary on several factors: Are you a good person who enjoys living in an undergrad hall? If you are female, your odds of getting one of these positions is outstanding. If you're a male, it depends, but still ~50%. Do you hate religion or are you at least somewhat religious?

I came in at sticker, but will save about $60,000 because of this job. Not sure if UIUC offers a similar program. It probably doesn't because it doesn't have a $5 billion endowment like ND.


Thanks for sharing. RA sounds attractive since I come in at sticker. Glad to know that being a female would have a better chance of getting the position. =)


Pretty much every school has things like that. There are graduate fellowships at illinois which give free tuition + 15-20k a year. I know of some law students that got them (they are from other depts but any graduate student can apply). However, they are difficult to get, but once you get them it doesnt require much work (ie go to some seminars, write a paper,etc). I've also seem some programs that offer tuition waivers but no scholly if you TA 10hrs+/week. I would rather die before TAing so I never applied, so no idea how easy/hard they are to get. FYI, these are not law school jobs, those do not pay, they just give you a credit. But the Univeristy as a whole is huge, law students often forget all the opportunities out there that are geared towards "graduate students"

Also, another way of getting residency is buying a house. I know someone who did that and her mortgage is lower than rent would be. and she is getting residency.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:27 pm

NDLS 2L here as most of you know...there are people in our class going most everywhere because they are from there: Orlando, Wichita, Phoenix, Boston, NY, DC, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Toledo, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Grand Rapids...these are all people that I've talked to and all firm jobs. Of course it's not rosy, I think I'd be the first person to admit that, but NDLS gives great opportunities in your home market.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois vs Notre Dame vs Emory

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:27 pm

However, I would not attend at sticker.




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