Want to practice in SF Bay Area - UC Hastings or USC ? Forum

[kapital98]

The other thing is, even though Hastings isnt ranked as well as USC, Hastings seems to offer more in terms of extracurricular activities. For example, Hastings offers more law journals, while USC only offers three.

And I've talked to hiring partners and recruiters who say that performance in law school is more important than school ranking (Basically, doing well at Hastings is better than performing mediocre at USC).

Any thoughts?

This isn't reflected in the employment stats. Big firms take only the tip top 10% of the class at Hastings whereas they take a third of the students at USC

Once again, irrelevant for what OP is specifically asking for. At least as many Bay Area firms will come to Hastings as USC. USC's placement outside of the bay area will be more -- but that's not what OP is asking about.

[bk1]

All things equal, USC. No doubt about it. With ties to the bay area, you'll have just as good (maybe even better) of a chance at a bay area firm job from USC as you would from Hastings.

This. Even without ties to the Bay I'd take USC at equal cost over UCH any day of the week.

Some folks have mentioned your family ties to the bay area. Unless your family actually has strong professional ties to potential employers in the bay area, I wouldn't consider them ties.

People are talking about having a legitimate reason for SF/SV firms to think you want to be there. It does not require having "professional ties to potential employers."

[flem]

Once again, irrelevant for what OP is specifically asking for. At least as many Bay Area firms will come to Hastings as USC. USC's placement outside of the bay area will be more -- but that's not what OP is asking about.

The point is employers will dip further into the pool at USC than they would at Hastings, and you have options outside of the Bay Area if you don't land there if you graduate from USC.

I'd say that's extremely relevant to this decision.

[kapital98]

Once again, irrelevant for what OP is specifically asking for. At least as many Bay Area firms will come to Hastings as USC. USC's placement outside of the bay area will be more -- but that's not what OP is asking about.

The point is employers will dip further into the pool at USC than they would at Hastings, and you have options outside of the Bay Area if you don't land there if you graduate from USC.

I'd say that's extremely relevant to this decision.

Whether they will dip further into the pool is debatable. You are using a general group of employers and then making an assertion about SF firms. This is probably not reliable if SF firms consider Hastings and USC equals for hiring. Most likely they will consider the applicants the same (but with more SF firms coming to Hastings.)

USC still places better because of significantly better placement outside of SF than Hastings. This makes it look like they are dipping further into the pool of applicants.

I agree with you that looking at alternative options is always a good thing. But, OP has a specific interest in the SF market. This thread should be focused on what school will give him the best chance for SF.

[calawdude]

All things equal, USC. No doubt about it. With ties to the bay area, you'll have just as good (maybe even better) of a chance at a bay area firm job from USC as you would from Hastings.

This. Even without ties to the Bay I'd take USC at equal cost over UCH any day of the week.

Some folks have mentioned your family ties to the bay area. Unless your family actually has strong professional ties to potential employers in the bay area, I wouldn't consider them ties.

People are talking about having a legitimate reason for SF/SV firms to think you want to be there. It does not require having "professional ties to potential employers."

No. I'm pretty sure people were talking about ties to the bay as in OP's friends and family possibly helping OP get a job there. I don't see anywhere in this thread where people talked about law firms judging OP based on whether or not she simply has friends and family there.

Trust me, OP. If you attend school outside of a certain area, unless your family has professional ties IN THAT AREA, just the fact that they're living there isn't going to help. If you choose USC, though, I think it's still a good choice. It is a very good school.

Whichever school you choose, best of luck!

[Mr. Somebody]

I would be really hesitant to go to Hastings.

--LinkRemoved--

Only 59% of the class of 2011 had full-time legal work. It's likely better than that now, but I think your chances of getting a good legal job are way better at USC.

Be careful in comparing those numbers. Official employment numbers are notorious for being unreliable. Hastings may not be gaming the numbers like peer schools.

I wasn't comparing them and Hastings is not a peer to usc

The entire point of this thread is to compare the two schools to the bay area. If you'e not comparing the statistics then what you're saying is completely useless. Also, for the Bay Area they should be treated as peer schools. We're not talking about employment throughout the country but rather one specific area. It's possible Hastings has better placement in the Bay Area than USC (no reliable statistics.)

Stick to what the OP is actually asking.

Its not useless because the OP may not have that information already and she can at least evaluate Hastings on that basis. I wasn't comparing it to USC because unfortunately USC isn't as transparent and doesn't distinguish between FT/PT jobs on its website. But I would be nervous about going to a school that only placed 60% of its class into full-time legal work. And this was for Class of 2010 actually, which makes it even worse.

[flem]

Whether they will dip further into the pool is debatable. You are using a general group of employers and then making an assertion about SF firms. This is probably not reliable if SF firms consider Hastings and USC equals for hiring. Most likely they will consider the applicants the same (but with more SF firms coming to Hastings.)

USC still places better because of significantly better placement outside of SF than Hastings. This makes it look like they are dipping further into the pool of applicants.

I agree with you that looking at alternative options is always a good thing. But, OP has a specific interest in the SF market. This thread should be focused on what school will give him the best chance for SF.

So basically you have, at worst, an equal shot at Bay Area work from UC-Hastings and USC. The former has few other options, whereas the latter has many fall back options if you don't get the bay area.

So there's that.

Clearly neither of these schools give the best shot at the Bay Area as would Boalt/Stanford, so it's time to be realistic about other options.

[bk1]

No. I'm pretty sure people were talking about ties to the bay as in OP's friends and family possibly helping OP get a job there. I don't see anywhere in this thread where people talked about law firms judging OP based on whether or not she simply has friends and family there.

Trust me, OP. If you attend school outside of a certain area, unless your family has professional ties IN THAT AREA, just the fact that they're living there isn't going to help. If you choose USC, though, I think it's still a good choice. It is a very good school.

The 2 people on the previous page were talking about it in the way I described. The fact that someone has ties to the area (e.g. they grew up there) helps alleviate the concern that employers in certain legal markets have whether the person is a flight risk (i.e. they are going to leave after a year).

I've heard conflicting stories about whether this applies to the Bay Area, but the fact that OP has them makes sure that OP at least won't be hurt by not having them.

[ilovesf]

No. I'm pretty sure people were talking about ties to the bay as in OP's friends and family possibly helping OP get a job there. I don't see anywhere in this thread where people talked about law firms judging OP based on whether or not she simply has friends and family there.

Trust me, OP. If you attend school outside of a certain area, unless your family has professional ties IN THAT AREA, just the fact that they're living there isn't going to help. If you choose USC, though, I think it's still a good choice. It is a very good school.

The 2 people on the previous page were talking about it in the way I described. The fact that someone has ties to the area (e.g. they grew up there) helps alleviate the concern that employers in certain legal markets have whether the person is a flight risk (i.e. they are going to leave after a year).

I've heard conflicting stories about whether this applies to the Bay Area, but the fact that OP has them makes sure that OP at least won't be hurt by not having them.

A lot of my 2L friends said that their friends who aren't from here got drilled at OCI with questions about why they wanted to stay in SF if they're from LA or another area. They were all under the impression that having a real reason to want SF was pretty important.

[calawdude]

bk187 and ilovesf, I see what you mean now. This is the first time I've heard about this type concern on the employer's behalf, but I can see that.

See, it IS possible to disgree on TLS and not have to fight. Hahaha.

Can't we all just get along, fellow TLSers?

[kapital98]

bk187 and ilovesf, I see what you mean now. This is the first time I've heard about this type concern on the employer's behalf, but I can see that.

See, it IS possible to disgree on TLS and not have to fight. Hahaha.

Can't we all just get along, fellow TLSers?

+1

[norcalChk]

Thanks for all the wonderful responses!

[bilbobaggins]

Go to USC. Smaller class means an easier time getting ahead in a tough legal market. The SF market is an extremely tough market to crack, so I would go to the school (cost being equal, which they are) that will give you the best shot at that market and also the best shot in CA as a whole.

[top30man]

All things equal, USC. No doubt about it. With ties to the bay area, you'll have just as good (maybe even better) of a chance at a bay area firm job from USC as you would from Hastings.

Credited.