HLS (probably sticker) vs NYU (45k) human rights Forum

[teacher10456]

So I have been discussing this with family and friends but everyone seems to just say Harvard because most people know the name better, so I thought I might see if there is any other insight here... Thank you in advance for anyone who does share his/her thoughts.

I want to do public interest work, specifically in the area of international human rights. I would like to be based on the east coast (NYC - I really enjoy living here) but also am open to international work after graduation. One thing I am absolutely sure about is that I will be working in public interest so I plan to use LRAP or LIPP

I really loved the NYU ASW and was impressed by the clear commitment to PI and vast offerings... I was not as impressed with Harvard's program, but also have been repeatedly told that the name (especially internationally) will be helpful in finding jobs and that the internships/connections that Harvard offers are more important than coursework. Like most of the people planning on going into this field, my dream would be to work for a big NGO or international government organization.

I do not think I will get much need based aid from HLS because I am pretty sure my parents make too much (which continues to upset me because of the fact that I have lived independently for 3 years and they will not be contributing but oh well)

I currently live in NYC with my SO who is willing to move to Boston but less thrilled about the prospect of moving again in only 3 years.

[cjcregg]

Definitely Harvard. You can't pick NYU for the money, it isn't significant enough. Harvard can only open more doors for you than NYU. Certainly doesn't close off potential access to NYC. The prestige of Harvard will probably broaden your access to prestigious PI. + NO GRADES. Hardly anyone w/ these options would pick NYU.

[cjcregg]

But idk, the poll results indicate something else.

[Nova]

But idk, the poll results indicate something else.

Those folks are just gunning for her seat at HLS.

OP, just go to Harvard.

[CanadianWolf]

Although I voted for Harvard, this is a personal choice full of positives regardless of your decision. If you & your SO are happy in NYC & want to remain in NYC to attend NYU on a partial scholarship, then do it. However, if you both feel a bit adventurous & plan on working abroad, then Harvard is the better career options choice, in my opinion. In short, congratulations because you cannot make a wrong choice.

[teacher10456]

Thank you for the feedback so far!

One concern I do have about Harvard is that LIPP does not seem to have as good of a forgiveness program as NYU. If I make less than 80k, I would potentially pay back none of my loans at NYU, while at Harvard it would have to be less than 45k to have the same forgiveness.

[MrPapagiorgio]

Definitely Harvard. You can't pick NYU for the money, it isn't significant enough. Harvard can only open more doors for you than NYU. Certainly doesn't close off potential access to NYC. The prestige of Harvard will probably broaden your access to prestigious PI. + NO GRADES. Hardly anyone w/ these options would pick NYU.

+1. In the grand scheme of debt, 45K scholarship is more or less negligible. If this was Harvard sticker vs. NYU full scholarship, the results would be skewed in the other direction.

[Doorkeeper]

Did you not get any money at Columbia or Chicago? 45k isn't enough to pull you away by itself. Unless you're getting at least 75-90k or so from a CCN, it's hard to justify it by money alone. The real consideration for NYU should be with you and your SO, combined with how your feel about PI and LRAP at the two schools.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Probably better off at Harvard. Honestly, I think you are going to have a hard time finding paying work in the area you're targeting no matter what. But I think that any of your possible Plan B's (biglaw, domestic public interest work, clerking for a year or two) will clearly be better served at Harvard. Not so much so that it would be insane to go to NYU, but if you did, it should be for personal reasons (fiance can't get a job in Boston, etc.) and not the money, because superficially I think this cuts in favor of Harvard on every dimension. It just isn't enough money to matter. Double that scholarship and there'd be a serious conversation here on the merits.

[beevs]

I want to preface this by saying that I didn't go to NYU's ASW, so I can't speak for their program. They are supposedly an international powerhouse (right?), and I wouldn't be surprised if they could boast a lot of the breadth and depth of Harvard's offerings, so I won't speak to the "specialization AND broad knowledge" argument.

At Harvard's ASW today, I had lunch with a professor who teaches several int'l human rights classes, is one of the int'l human rights clinical advisers, and also does a significant amount of work for Human Rights Watch. I was thoroughly impressed with what she had to say about Harvard's programs in the area. She also confirmed that the Harvard brand is especially useful in this line of work, not just in getting employment, but in the number and caliber of people who are willing to be interviewed by you for relevant research (she mentioned this unprompted, but also incredibly humbly, admitting that she hates saying something so "crass"). It seems like the IHR clinical has a lot of really direct involvement abroad, is open to taking direction from students/starting new projects based on student interest, and the opportunity to organize independent clinicals impressed me as well.

Just my two cents.

[Nelson]

You could probably get more money out of NYU with the Harvard acceptance. I think you can make the case for taking the money, especially if you're going back to NYC after graduation regardless. 45k in principle is a year or two's worth of loan payments on an NYC biglaw salary. You aren't gonna do "international human rights" from either, so I wouldn't worry about that.

[thelawyler]

Cost of living at NYU will bring down the value of the 45k scholly... and it's Harvard. It'll take you far for that international stuff you want to do.

[teacher10456]

You could probably get more money out of NYU with the Harvard acceptance. I think you can make the case for taking the money, especially if you're going back to NYC after graduation regardless. 45k in principle is a year or two's worth of loan payments on an NYC biglaw salary. You aren't gonna do "international human rights" from either, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Just wondering how I would phrase this email to NYU.

"I really like your school but Harvard is better known so will you give me more money to choose you"

? Not meant to be sarcastic, I am really unsure of how to leverage an acceptance with no scholarship offer.


Also wondering why you think that there is no chance for me to go into the field and put it in quotations?

[kingofspain]

You could probably get more money out of NYU with the Harvard acceptance. I think you can make the case for taking the money, especially if you're going back to NYC after graduation regardless. 45k in principle is a year or two's worth of loan payments on an NYC biglaw salary. You aren't gonna do "international human rights" from either, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Just wondering how I would phrase this email to NYU.

"I really like your school but Harvard is better known so will you give me more money to choose you"

? Not meant to be sarcastic, I am really unsure of how to leverage an acceptance with no scholarship offer.


Also wondering why you think that there is no chance for me to go into the field and put it in quotations?

There's just a popular belief that "international human rights" doesn't actually exist. I doubt there are tons of jobs out there, but Harvard is as good a place as any to try for it. So feel free to ignore him. I mean, I met a few people there who are currently actively involved in international human rights work (albeit as 2- or 3Ls, not as graduates), so it must exist to some extent.

Good luck. And pick Harvard!

[ToTransferOrNot]

You could probably get more money out of NYU with the Harvard acceptance. I think you can make the case for taking the money, especially if you're going back to NYC after graduation regardless. 45k in principle is a year or two's worth of loan payments on an NYC biglaw salary. You aren't gonna do "international human rights" from either, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Also wondering why you think that there is no chance for me to go into the field and put it in quotations?

/popcorn.gif

[FlightoftheEarls]

You could probably get more money out of NYU with the Harvard acceptance. I think you can make the case for taking the money, especially if you're going back to NYC after graduation regardless. 45k in principle is a year or two's worth of loan payments on an NYC biglaw salary. You aren't gonna do "international human rights" from either, so I wouldn't worry about that.

This is the kind of shit that annoys me. It's all fine and good to tell somebody they won't do international human rights work if they're choosing between American and Davis (because they won't), but it is legitimately possible to get into the field from a school like Harvard. But of course, this is TLS; people read one Anna Ivey blog post and pretend like they know what they're talking about.

[teacher10456]

I don't want to start an argument... but wouldn't a job like this be considered "international human rights?"

--LinkRemoved--

I know it requires experience before, and I am under no impression that it would be easy at all, but I wonder why people say things like that.

As I said, it would be my dream to work at this type of job, and outside of other experience I want to choose the law school that will put me in the best position to have a chance at this type of work (not this exact posting, this was just something I came across after a 2 minute search). Thanks again for everyone who gave their feedback and insight!

[Tiago Splitter]

I don't want to start an argument... but wouldn't a job like this be considered "international human rights?"

--LinkRemoved--

I know it requires experience before, and I am under no impression that it would be easy at all, but I wonder why people say things like that.

As I said, it would be my dream to work at this type of job, and outside of other experience I want to choose the law school that will put me in the best position to have a chance at this type of work (not this exact posting, this was just something I came across after a 2 minute search). Thanks again for everyone who gave their feedback and insight!

Qualifications:

Education: An advanced (graduate) degree in international relations, women’s studies, journalism, law, social sciences, or related studies is required.

[Doorkeeper]

I don't want to start an argument... but wouldn't a job like this be considered "international human rights?"

--LinkRemoved--

I know it requires experience before, and I am under no impression that it would be easy at all, but I wonder why people say things like that.

As I said, it would be my dream to work at this type of job, and outside of other experience I want to choose the law school that will put me in the best position to have a chance at this type of work (not this exact posting, this was just something I came across after a 2 minute search). Thanks again for everyone who gave their feedback and insight!

Qualifications:

Education: An advanced (graduate) degree in international relations, women’s studies, journalism, law, social sciences, or related studies is required.

JD = advanced (graduate) degree in law.

[Artistry]

Retake the LSAT and reapply to try to get into Yale.
























JK Harvard seems good enough, unless you are happy with just working in NYC. If that's the case, then the $$ from NYU might be okay. (Voted for Harvard).

[Tiago Splitter]

JD = advanced (graduate) degree in law.

Thanks dawg.

Meanwhile, you'll be up against people who snagged a masters in International Relations for 150K less.

[Doorkeeper]

JD = advanced (graduate) degree in law.

Thanks dawg.

Meanwhile, you'll be up against people who snagged a masters in International Relations for 150K less.

Just pointing it out.

Also, funding for Master's is much scarcer than law for the top degrees (SIPA, KSG, SAIS, etc). A 2 years Master's can easily run 120-150k. Also, when it comes to hiring in most areas in DC, JD > MA. Obviously the best for that job would be a JD with a MA in IR, PP, or PS. That being said, I understand the point you're trying to make.

[splbagel]

One thing to keep in mind is that Harvard's LIPP is more flexible than NYU's, even if your monthly contribution for any given salary would be a little higher. Harvard's LIPP covers ANY government or non-profit work, even if it doesn't require a JD (policy analyst, program manager, community organizer, whatever). It also covers low-income jobs in the private legal sector, which could include work at a small firm. Another thing to remember is that Harvard's LIPP is not at all connected to the federal LRAP, so there's no risk that Congress will pull the rug out from under you by de-funding the program or changing the rules in the middle of the game.

Between that, and the advantage of the Harvard name and network internationally, I'd say choose Harvard unless you have a very compelling reason to stay in NYC.

[nautilus2000]

One thing to keep in mind is that Harvard's LIPP is more flexible than NYU's, even if your monthly contribution for any given salary would be a little higher. Harvard's LIPP covers ANY government or non-profit work, even if it doesn't require a JD (policy analyst, program manager, community organizer, whatever). It also covers low-income jobs in the private legal sector, which could include work at a small firm. Another thing to remember is that Harvard's LIPP is not at all connected to the federal LRAP, so there's no risk that Congress will pull the rug out from under you by de-funding the program or changing the rules in the middle of the game.

Between that, and the advantage of the Harvard name and network internationally, I'd say choose Harvard unless you have a very compelling reason to stay in NYC.

I just wanted to clarify this--NYU's LRAP also covers policy-related (non JD required) jobs in government and low-income attorney jobs in the private sector.

[splbagel]

I just wanted to clarify this--NYU's LRAP also covers policy-related (non JD required) jobs in government and low-income attorney jobs in the private sector.

Good to know. Sounds like HLS is still a little broader - pubic / non-profit sector jobs don't even have to be policy-related.

According to the NYU LRAP site about private firms:

Solo practitioners or attorneys at private public interest law firms may also be eligible for LRAP benefits provided at least 51% of the attorney’s work is for indigent or underrepresented populations, or those who are otherwise unable to afford legal representation.

Source: http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/lra ... /index.htm

As far as I know, HLS LIPP doesn't have any such restrictions - if you're working at a private firm and your income meets their guidelines, you qualify.