OSU v. George Mason

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

OSU
17
71%
GMU
7
29%
 
Total votes: 24

Incubateus
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OSU v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:50 pm

If money was of no concern, I would go to Mason. I really like the atmosphere, the professors, the econ & law focus, etc. I would love to end up in DC and I want to go into antitrust (I also have ties to DC). That being said, they have yet to help me out financially. I spoke with Dean Price and she said she would try to help me, but as of right now I would be paying sticker. Practicing in Ohio would be ok, and from OSU I could end up working in Pittsburgh (where I live now).

COA's:
OSU = ~110k
GMU = ~180k

I'm not looking for a response of "retake", "don't go", or "you'll end up with no job," so please don't troll (read as "respond") if you want to answer that way. If you have something to share about these schools and an opinion of where you would go, I'd love to hear it. Thanks all.
Last edited by Incubateus on Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

bdole2
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby bdole2 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:22 am

Incubateus wrote:If money was of no concern, I would go to Mason. I really like the atmosphere, the professors, the econ & law focus, etc. I would love to end up in DC and I want to go into antitrust (I also have ties to DC). That being said, they have yet to help me out financially. I spoke with Dean Price and she said she would try to help me, but as of right now I would be paying sticker. Practicing in Ohio would be ok, and from either OSU or Case I could end up working in Pittsburgh (where I live now).

COA's:
OSU = ~110k
Case = ~100k
GMU = ~180k

I'm not looking for a response of "retake", "don't go", or "you'll end up with no job," so please don't troll. If you have something to share about these schools and an opinion of where you would go, I'd love to hear it. Thanks all.


I think you need to learn the difference between trolling and helping prevent posters from making poor financial decisions.

So, George Mason is not a great option for DC at any price. Did you apply to UPitt?

Of your current options OSU is probably the best, but I'm not keen on any of them.

Incubateus
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:37 am

Yes, I applied to Pitt and several other schools. Pitt would be just a little bit more expensive than Case, but probably equal in the long run. I like Case more than Pitt for a variety of reasons, thus I narrowed it down to Case instead of Pitt.

Edit: And I consider it trolling when people use the same response regarding any school not in the T14, unless it's a full ride. Surprisingly people in this world actually want to practice law because they enjoy certain aspects of it, and are thus willing to pay off debt over the course of 10-20 years.
Last edited by Incubateus on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:39 am

Do you have ties to OH?

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goldeneye
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby goldeneye » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:39 am

Incubateus wrote:Yes, I applied to Pitt and several other schools. Pitt would be just a little bit more expensive than Case, but probably equal in the long run. I like Case more than Pitt for a variety of reasons, thus I narrowed it down to Case instead of Pitt.


don't you have in-state for Pitt? how is that the same as Case?

Incubateus
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:43 am

Not many ties to Ohio, a few though. If, for whatever reason, I struck out in Ohio, the degree would carry the same weight as Pitt in Pittsburgh.

Pitt: 28k/yr in state - 12k scholarship + 18k COL = 34 (*3) = 102k

Case: 42k/yr - 27k scholarship + 18k COL = 33 (*3) = 99k

bdole2
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby bdole2 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:44 am

Incubateus wrote: I struck out in Ohio, the degree would carry the same weight as Pitt in Pittsburgh.


I'm not from Pittsburgh so I don't know for sure, but I doubt this is true.

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Nova
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Nova » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 am

Are you single? If so, I think you should go to OSU. Best chance to find your self an undergrad hunny.

I dont think GM at 180k debt is a wise choice.

Incubateus
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:48 am

It is true. Reference: Henry Gusky, DA Washington County, DA Allegheny County, Hiring Partner at Dickie McCamey

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shackleford
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby shackleford » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:49 am

Just to complicate things more for you Case increased tuition to a little under 45k/year for next year. (I was at ASD when I found out) Keep in mind the stips though. I'm assuming Case's stips are easier than Pitt's

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Nova
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Nova » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:51 am

Incubateus wrote:Not many ties to Ohio, a few though. If, for whatever reason, I struck out in Ohio, the degree would carry the same weight as Pitt in Pittsburgh.

Pitt: 28k/yr in state - 12k scholarship + 18k COL = 34 (*3) = 102k

Case: 42k/yr - 27k scholarship + 18k COL = 33 (*3) = 99k


Please keep in mind that compound interest on a 10 year loan ends up being several thousand dollars as well.

bdole2
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby bdole2 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:53 am

Incubateus wrote:It is true. Reference: Henry Gusky, DA Washington County, DA Allegheny County, Hiring Partner at Dickie McCamey


I would maybe getting a second and third opinion before spending 100k+. Just because Case and Pitt are the same to this guy doesn't mean they will carry the same weight with other employers in Pittsburgh

Incubateus
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:53 am

I purposefully excluded exact costs (parent's insurance, living with girlfriend, savings already in the bank, etc.) because the effect would be marginal with regards to deviations from the blunt cost.

Incubateus
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:54 am

Those were all different people...

bdole2
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby bdole2 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:57 am

Incubateus wrote:Those were all different people...


My bad I thought you were giving me someone's resume as to convince me it was a credible source

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Nova
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Nova » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:00 am

Incubateus wrote:Those were all different people...


LOL, I had the same RC fail as Bdole.

Anyway, I still vote for OSU even though you are not single. I am basing this off very little tangable evidence besides OSU is the best law school in Ohio.

Incubateus
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Incubateus » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:06 am

Probably should have said "reference(s)". Anyway, does anybody have any first or second hand insights to any of the schools themselves? Personal/friend's anecdotes? Maybe you went or are going to one of these schools? I would love to hear from someone who actually made a similar decision and how they feel about it in retrospect.

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shackleford
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby shackleford » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:15 am

I live literally 300 feet from Pitt's law school. I'm going to Case. If you want anything specific let me know, but it almost entirely came down to money for me.



Edit: I should add, just because I like giving advice and want to seem like I can provide some good help, I was/is in the exact situation as you minus some marginal differences in money and that I wasn't considering GMU.
Last edited by shackleford on Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby Nova » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:19 am

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&start=25

The only similar situation I found. Heres the relevent posts:

Ersatz Haderach wrote:I go to CWRU. I turned down OSU but I hesitate to advise people to do the same, because for the majority of people, esp. Ohio residents, OSU is the better deal.



mpj_3050 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Ignore Case, as Ohio State is worth $12,000 more.


Absolutely correct


cinephile wrote:What are the stipulations for keeping your scholarship at Syracuse? If it's remaining in good standing -- I'd take that (being rather debt-averse).

Also, agree about removing Case from your list as OSU places much better in Ohio.

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bk1
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:21 am

None of the above. They don't place in places you want to be. They cost too much. Their employment prospects are either mediocre or just bad.

Whether or not you're willing to listen, you should retake whether you want to or not.

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buckilaw
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby buckilaw » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:37 am

Incubateus wrote:Not many ties to Ohio, a few though. If, for whatever reason, I struck out in Ohio, the degree would carry the same weight as Pitt in Pittsburgh.

Pitt: 28k/yr in state - 12k scholarship + 18k COL = 34 (*3) = 102k

Case: 42k/yr - 27k scholarship + 18k COL = 33 (*3) = 99k


If you don't have ties to Ohio don't expect to get a job in Ohio. Firms are VERY hesitant to hire anyone right now and if a job comes down to you vs. someone who has family + friends in Ohio you'll be at a disadvantage.

The legal market is truly terrible in Ohio, there are MAYBE around 50 entry level positions with firms. The only firm that would allow you to do antitrust - that I can think of - is Jones Day, Jones Day will be sought after by every law grad in Ohio...

TL;DR Retake, reapply for a school that will give you a better shot of getting a firm job where you can do antitrust.

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flem
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby flem » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:44 am

Incubateus wrote:If money was of no concern, I would go to Mason. I really like the atmosphere, the professors, the econ & law focus, etc. I would love to end up in DC and I want to go into antitrust (I also have ties to DC). That being said, they have yet to help me out financially. I spoke with Dean Price and she said she would try to help me, but as of right now I would be paying sticker. Practicing in Ohio would be ok, and from either OSU or Case I could end up working in Pittsburgh (where I live now).

COA's:
OSU = ~110k
Case = ~100k
GMU = ~180k

I'm not looking for a response of "retake", "don't go", or "you'll end up with no job," so please don't troll. If you have something to share about these schools and an opinion of where you would go, I'd love to hear it. Thanks all.


Your cost of attendance is off.

Assuming Stafford/Grad PLUS loans averaging out at a 7.5% APR that accrues the second you take out loans and compounds, it looks like this:

OSU: ~129K
Case: ~119K
GMU: ~209K

When a likely outcome of these schools is a 50-60K job, that's really expensive. The cheapest scenario (Case) would require you to be paying back roughly $1200 a month in loan payments if you want to pay it off in a timely fashion. That's $14,400 a year.

Taking the 60K/year number, subtract $12,000 a year in taxes/Medicare/SS deductions. Then subtract $14,400 in loan payments. Your take home pay, after all this, is $33,600. That blows.

Think very, very carefully how badly you want to be a lawyer. Are you willing to work 60-70 hour weeks for 33K a year? I'm not. It's not like the lower paying jobs mean you work less hours. You work the same shitty biglaw hours for less money.

And you're thinking about going to Ohio, a rustbelt state with a shitty economy, without ties? A 60K/year job would be a GREAT outcome for you. Getting boned is more likely.

I'm not some JDU or T14/don't go troll, but you need to look at the total cost of attendance and the likely outcome - the big picture. I've got a friend who just graduated law school and her entire class is fighting over jobs that pay 45K with no benefits, to start. It's not like there's room for advancement in that scenario either. It's rough out there. Retake and go somewhere with really good employment options, or retake and go to these same schools for free.

Good luck.

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romothesavior
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:52 am

All these are bad options, given the price tags and your lack of ties.

I'm sorry if you consider that "trolling." I'm far from a "T14 troll," and I don't think you have to have a full ride to go to law school. I go to a non-T14 school, and I don't have a full ride. What I do believe, and have seen over and over with my own eyes, is that law school is a tremendous investment that does not pay off for most people. Not a terrible investment when the school is right and the price tag is reasonable, but it can truly ruin your life if you go in. I have a few good friends who are truly depressed (and I mean on a clinical level) because of the decision to take out six figures for law school.

If you have to go (and you don't, but it sounds like you may have convinced yourself you have) then go to OSU. Best school in the state, although the state is oversaturated and you apparently have no ties, and $120k is a lot of money for it. If you go to GMU for over 200k you might as well light your money on fire.

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lifestooquick
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby lifestooquick » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:58 am

I go to OSU.

Your real choice here is OSU v. Mason. If OSU is an option, CWRU is out - OSU is the better school. And cheaper. You can get in-state for 2L and 3L at OSU.

Yes, Pitt will be an option from OSU. We have employers from Pitt and West Virginia at OCI.

JamesChapman23
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Re: OSU v. Case v. George Mason

Postby JamesChapman23 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:29 am

Without local ties, Ohio is going to be a bad time.




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