Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

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jamie3
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Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:53 pm

Hi,

Soon I will have the hard choice of choosing a law school. I was selected at these three schools: Depaul, Hofstra, and Syracuse. From these three I only received a scholarship from Depaul Law School, which was half-tuition. I am not sure which one is better. I have never been to Chicago but have lived in NYC before. I have a 3.63 gpa and my lsat is 163.

I have been waitlisted at my top choice schools. Which where: Illinois Urbana-Champaign, UC Hastings, American University, Washington and Lee, Cardozo, and Maryland. I applied late, so I was expecting this to occur somewhat. Anyways, if none of these wait listed schools accepts me I am stuck with the choice above. Currently, my life situation will not allow me to apply next year.

I want to push to get into these schools, and I have already sent letters of continued interest to all of them with the exception of UC Hastings. This is due to UC Hastings sending me a letter with this statement, "Because we have a very large number of applications to process, we appreciate if you do not call or email us regarding the waitlist." If anyone has an opinion on what to do in this situation I would be grateful. The waitlist website at UC hastings only mentions these steps which I have already taken http://www.uchastings.edu/waitlist. I am not particularly sure if Hastings completely negates submission of a LOCI, though I have assumed so.

Thank you

Martin34
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby Martin34 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:16 pm

Don't even consider paying sticker to Hofstra or Syracuse, especially with your numbers. If you don't get into Hastings I'd probably just re-apply next year, and apply earlier.

rad lulz
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:43 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:58 pm

Hmmm… I would consider retaking, but that is beyond the point, especially if I can get into a good school with my scores. Anyways, I am looking for advice on how to better my chances of getting accepted in the places I was waitlisted in, and advice with which school to go to if I do not get accepted elsewhere. For example, I read on the top-law-schools profile of Syracuse, that it has a better national representation then the other schools, so something like this might be something to consider when considering Hofstra and Depaul. I am lost as to what advantages say Depaul would give me besides Syracuse and Hofstra.

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Sherlock1708
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby Sherlock1708 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:35 pm

How late did you apply??? I am shocked that you didn't get full rides at Hofstra and Syracuse or into some of the schools that waitlisted you. It might be too late now, but you should definitely ask Hofstra and Syracuse for money with your stats.

rad lulz
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby rad lulz » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:51 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:13 am

Thanks for the replys. I applied in March, for some of the schools I got waitlisted in I applied after the priority deadline. I was also shocked I received no money from Syracuse. I am still waiting to hear back from Hofstra on this matter. Syracuse completely negated me, even after I asked, because there application specifically states that you must submit before February 1st to even be considered for any money.

Anyways, I need to consider law school now, simply because I may run into heavy life circumstances in the near future that will completely make it impossible later. In a way, you can consider it as incurring the debt of going to law school without going to law school, whereas if I go to law school, I only gain the law school debt plus the degree. The issue is private and different, but if you can understand this circumstance, you can see, perhaps, how going this year, to law school, seems a better option.

I am not too concern with having difficulty paying back the school in a timely fashion, though, I am more concerned with making no money at all and being suffocated with the debt. If there is a way to consolidate the debt and pay it slowly over several years, it might just be the same thing I have been doing my whole life.

Thanks again...

rad lulz
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby rad lulz » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:48 am

I would retake. I am from Chicago and if you're from NY you'll love the city. With that said DePaul is like 17th on the pecking order for jobs (T14 then UIUC then Kent then LUC and THEN DePaul) and Chicago is statistically the 3rd worst legal market in the nation (it may be 4th now, 3rd is as of last year). DePaul also section stacks so you may very well lose you scholly. Dont even start considering Hofstra and Syracuse, those schools will give you a 10% chance at best of getting a good job (aka one you dont hate, not one that pays 6 figures).

dooood
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby dooood » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:12 am

rad lulz wrote:Retake or don't go.

Reassess meng. Do not go to any these law schools

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:37 pm

rad lulz wrote:
jamie3 wrote:I am more concerned with making no money at all and being suffocated with the debt.

My implication was actually that you wouldn't be able to repay your loans in a timely fashion because of this. Sorry if I didn't make it clearer. These schools are pretty pathetic also-rans in their home markets, and ridiculously expensive to book. If you even get a legal job (not guaranteed), it probably be of the $50k variety. Doesn't make any sense to take out $100k+ if a "good" outcome is $50k.


This is interesting info. I am not sure $50k would be too bad considering the situation now, right now my job prospects would put me in a job less then 15k a year, which if I take the year off, would increase my chances of incurring more debt and ruining my chances of ever going to law school.

Also I heard that Depaul could have been last in order of jobs, but I have heard contrary to this. That is that Depaul was higher ranked then Loyola and Kent job wise. So I am not sure who to believe.

Also I wanted to add, Depaul scholarship states I keep it unless I drop below graduating GPA. Which even if they section stack, I would have to fail to lose it.

I am still hoping to get into better schools, but chances are I won't know till May. Some of them haven't even sent me any info... like Kent.

bogart
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby bogart » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:04 pm

When it comes to Syracuse don't confuse the undergrad (national reputation/reach) with the law school (NY/northeast region).

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romothesavior
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:19 pm

Retake. That is the only justifiable decision here. These three schools are not good. The ones you are waiting on would be too expensive even if you got in. Study your ass off and retake. You will likely regret it big time if you don't. Unemployment and/or massive indebtedness likely await if you don't retake.

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romothesavior
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby romothesavior » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:21 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I would retake. I am from Chicago and if you're from NY you'll love the city. With that said DePaul is like 17th on the pecking order for jobs (T14 then UIUC then Kent then LUC and THEN DePaul) and Chicago is statistically the 3rd worst legal market in the nation (it may be 4th now, 3rd is as of last year). DePaul also section stacks so you may very well lose you scholly. Dont even start considering Hofstra and Syracuse, those schools will give you a 10% chance at best of getting a good job (aka one you dont hate, not one that pays 6 figures).

Depaul is also likely lower on the Chicago totem pole than WUSTL, ND, and Iowa.

Pretty sure they're one of the schools being sued. Its a shithole.

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:07 pm

romothesavior wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I would retake. I am from Chicago and if you're from NY you'll love the city. With that said DePaul is like 17th on the pecking order for jobs (T14 then UIUC then Kent then LUC and THEN DePaul) and Chicago is statistically the 3rd worst legal market in the nation (it may be 4th now, 3rd is as of last year). DePaul also section stacks so you may very well lose you scholly. Dont even start considering Hofstra and Syracuse, those schools will give you a 10% chance at best of getting a good job (aka one you dont hate, not one that pays 6 figures).

Depaul is also likely lower on the Chicago totem pole than WUSTL, ND, and Iowa.

Pretty sure they're one of the schools being sued. Its a shithole.



Wow! being sued for what... I'm pretty sure they could be, seeing as their ranking seems to be falling, much like Penn State. Right now I am just checking options.

Also what are my options if I apply early next year as oppose to retaking. Retaking is an option, but then again, the expense is already bad enough. Could I also maybe take in June and apply for fall this year to get in?

Also if I get a job starting lower than 50k what are the chances this would increase over the years?

Would it also be bad to pay sticker at the lower end t-14 schools?

wiscohopeful
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby wiscohopeful » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:12 pm

From someone who went to DePaul (and fortunately transferred out), DO NOT GO THERE unless fo free and no stipulations. So basically don't go there. I heard rumors of the scholly stacking sections though I don't necessarily believe it because I knew a good number of people in all sections who had schollys. Their placement is garbage though. They are low low low on the pecking order for big firm jobs and the grading scale can be harsh (at least it was while I was there, they may have since changed it). To to above poster who said Kent, then Loyola, then DePaul...why Kent in front of Loyola? I was always under the impression that Loyola placed better in biglaw than Kent.

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:10 pm

wiscohopeful wrote:From someone who went to DePaul (and fortunately transferred out), DO NOT GO THERE unless fo free and no stipulations. So basically don't go there. I heard rumors of the scholly stacking sections though I don't necessarily believe it because I knew a good number of people in all sections who had schollys. Their placement is garbage though. They are low low low on the pecking order for big firm jobs and the grading scale can be harsh (at least it was while I was there, they may have since changed it). To to above poster who said Kent, then Loyola, then DePaul...why Kent in front of Loyola? I was always under the impression that Loyola placed better in biglaw than Kent.


This is good, I was considering transferring if I go to Depaul. I was curious when and how to transfer if I choose to go there? Also, how bad is the grading scale compared to other schools? This part worries me, since if my grades plummet, transferring is out of the question.

Does anyone have information on the grading scale at Hofstra or Syracuse?

Also when did you go, was it before the dean was changed? Does this matter? So far Depaul is the school that is treating me the nicest, so I was considering them. However, if they change attitude once there, that would make things worse.

Also I was under the impression that the school dealt with the section stacking rumor, as most people with scholarships, that I know of, received the same stipulations as me, they got to keep the scholarship as long as their gpa was above a 2.0 average.

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romothesavior
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby romothesavior » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:01 am

Sued for fraud.

Going to school to transfer is a terrible idea. Odds are heavily against you. Scoring higher on the LSAT is far easier and costs FAR less than rolling the dice at finishing top 10-20%.

Alan
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby Alan » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:06 am

dooood wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Retake or don't go.

Reassess meng. Do not go to any these law schools


This.

You are underperforming your numbers.


You can do better next cycle. Your numbers are fine but retaking would be a good bet.

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:18 am

Alan wrote:
dooood wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Retake or don't go.

Reassess meng. Do not go to any these law schools


This.

You are underperforming your numbers.


You can do better next cycle. Your numbers are fine but retaking would be a good bet.
romothesavior wrote:Sued for fraud.

Going to school to transfer is a terrible idea. Odds are heavily against you. Scoring higher on the LSAT is far easier and costs FAR less than rolling the dice at finishing top 10-20%.



I agree with all these things, but I also have to consider the likelihood that I will not even have the chance to apply next year. However, if the chance is small, which school would provide me the best chance to transfer? It seems transferring out of Depaul would only be to the higher ranked Chicago schools. Whereas in Hofstra, there are people who have gone to Columbia Law School from Hofstra? So I am not sure which is better?

Sued for fraud also sounds bad, wonder how they are even tier 2?

Alan
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby Alan » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:19 am

jamie3 wrote:1.Wow! being sued for what... I'm pretty sure they could be, seeing as their ranking seems to be falling, much like Penn State. Right now I am just checking options.

2.Also what are my options if I apply early next year as oppose to retaking. Retaking is an option, but then again, the expense is already bad enough. Could I also maybe take in June and apply for fall this year to get in?

3.Also if I get a job starting lower than 50k what are the chances this would increase over the years?

4.Would it also be bad to pay sticker at the lower end t-14 schools?



1. I blame Sandusky

2. Not anywhere worth going. It may get you off waitlists though. Still, June would be the best time to retake, if you are prepared.

3. Who knows. Obviously your salary will increase but its impossible to tell to what degree without knowing the field, what school you end up going to, how good of an attorney you become, and how good at hustling are.

4. That comes down to opinion. I would turn down $$$ at a T30 to go to MVP at sticker. However, many people would take the money and not look back.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:25 am

Reapply next cycle. Your numbers should result in many Tier One (top 50) law school acceptances.

You're being punished this cycle for applying late.

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Br3v
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby Br3v » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:29 am

Retake break 170, call and thank me in 4 years (pm will suffice)

jamie3
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby jamie3 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:52 am

Br3v wrote:Retake break 170, call and thank me in 4 years (pm will suffice)


I could probably do this, if I have a chance to study for the exam. Studying was impossible last time I took the exam, no idea if to risk it, and hope things will be different next time. But if this happens, I will....

Alan wrote:
jamie3 wrote:1.Wow! being sued for what... I'm pretty sure they could be, seeing as their ranking seems to be falling, much like Penn State. Right now I am just checking options.

2.Also what are my options if I apply early next year as oppose to retaking. Retaking is an option, but then again, the expense is already bad enough. Could I also maybe take in June and apply for fall this year to get in?

3.Also if I get a job starting lower than 50k what are the chances this would increase over the years?

4.Would it also be bad to pay sticker at the lower end t-14 schools?



1. I blame Sandusky

2. Not anywhere worth going. It may get you off waitlists though. Still, June would be the best time to retake, if you are prepared.

3. Who knows. Obviously your salary will increase but its impossible to tell to what degree without knowing the field, what school you end up going to, how good of an attorney you become, and how good at hustling are.

4. That comes down to opinion. I would turn down $$$ at a T30 to go to MVP at sticker. However, many people would take the money and not look back.



Yes this all makes sense. I could possible risk it, though, might be a bad idea, but if no other schools, but these three accepts me, I will have to consider retaking, if possible. But, I am starting to think that I also should consider the chances that my salary would increase, if I go to any of these schools, and which one would provide me the means to achieve this increase, and so on.

In the meantime, I will have to place half-deposit in Syracuse tomorrow, right now it's $500 for some reason, probably won't do it, unless I find out a good reason to do so. I plan to study law with a science background. My original idea was IP law with the idea of taking the patent bar. Though this might change later. I want to have the option to go with the idea of studying something to do with science. I know Syracuse offers a unique science and technology study, for law students, but not sure how valuable it is.

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romothesavior
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Re: Depaul vs Hofstra vs Syracuse

Postby romothesavior » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:03 am

If you think you could get a 170+ and instead you go to Depaul, you will have made the worst decision of your life. Not exaggerating in the least.

There are dozens of people on this site who were in your position. Of those who retook, not a single person regrets that year off. There are countless examples of people whose lives changed as a result of that year off. A 170+, or even high 160s, would change your school options dramatically, which in turn would change your job prospects dramatically. This is the biggest investment you will ever make. Treat it as such.

Your odds of transferring from Depaul to a Chicago T14 are small. Hofstra to Columbia? Lolok. It would be far, far, far easier to just retake, get a better LSAT, and reapply to get in to a better school than it would be to go in betting on a transfer. I know law students are bad at math, but this is grade school level probabilities applied to a major life investment. If you think you can improve on the LSAT, then retake. You are doing yourself a serious disservice if you rush in to one of these schools.




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