Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

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Cornell $120k VS Columbia

Poll ended at Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:57 pm

Cornell $120k
57
83%
Columbia
12
17%
 
Total votes: 69

muddup
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Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:57 pm

For NYC biglaw. If you can please leave a note--especially if its a hard choice. Thanks!
Last edited by muddup on Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:06 am

Easily Cornell.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby Elston Gunn » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:14 am

moneybagsphd wrote:Easily Cornell.

bdole2
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby bdole2 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:15 am

Elston Gunn wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Easily Cornell.

rad lulz
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:16 am

bdole2 wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Easily Cornell.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:17 am

I would take a $40,000/year scholarship at Cornell over sticker at Columbia (or Chicago or NYU) any day of the week.

ahnhub
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby ahnhub » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:42 am

So I basically ended up picking Columbia over lower T-14, for 85K. I justified it because: 1)I live in NYC and want to stay here, 2)I was willing to pay a premium to increase my odds at Biglaw.

I don't think reason 2) is enough to warrant 85K, and definitely not enough to warrant 120K. If you have a reason to believe you'd be much happier at Columbia (you love the city; it's always been your dream school, whatever...) then you should think about what that's worth to you. It was worth about 30K to me; better odds at Biglaw (which I couldn't quantify, but I am pretty confident your odds are at least slightly better at Columbia) was worth 50K.

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Dany
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby Dany » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:49 am

rad lulz wrote:
bdole2 wrote:
Elston Gunn wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Easily Cornell.

muddup
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:47 am

Ok thanks. Columbia is my dream school, but then again its $120k, so I'm leaning toward Cornell too.

muddup
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:09 am

ahnhub wrote:So I basically ended up picking Columbia over lower T-14, for 85K. I justified it because: 1)I live in NYC and want to stay here, 2)I was willing to pay a premium to increase my odds at Biglaw.

I don't think reason 2) is enough to warrant 85K, and definitely not enough to warrant 120K. If you have a reason to believe you'd be much happier at Columbia (you love the city; it's always been your dream school, whatever...) then you should think about what that's worth to you. It was worth about 30K to me; better odds at Biglaw (which I couldn't quantify, but I am pretty confident your odds are at least slightly better at Columbia) was worth 50K.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... istics.cfm

Ya basically the thing that scares me is Cornell's -38% decrease from '10 -> '11 in biglaw placement. Horrific. Currently they have 26 students on law school funded jobs, AND 19 people UNemployed, which is 22% of Cornell Law grads failing life...

Can anyone take this into consideration and say Cornell $120k definitely > Columbia?

Artistry
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby Artistry » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:11 am

Is there any way you can negotiate with Columbia using the Cornell $$$?

If not, then definitely Cornell.

ahnhub
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby ahnhub » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:26 am

muddup wrote: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=181415

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... istics.cfm

Ya basically the thing that scares me is Cornell's -38% decrease from '10 -> '11 in biglaw placement. Horrific. Currently they have 26 students on law school funded jobs, AND 19 people UNemployed, which is 22% of Cornell Law grads failing life...

Can anyone take this into consideration and say Cornell $120k definitely > Columbia?


1) Cornell truly did incredibly well for itself in 2010--it had 81% of its grads in a law firm of 100+ or federal clerkship, which was the best in the country--better than Harvard, Columbia, anybody. So part of that huge drop is just because Cornell really wasn't hit that bad in 2010 (a bunch of schools, including T-14s, were).

2) Cornell just seemed to have a very tough OCI in 2009 (which was the worst OCI ever). Other top schools did, too. Some schools fared better. It's very reasonable to take those results into consideration, but again, it was most likely a result of maybe a poor response to the crash and just plain bad luck, not necessarily employers just deciding Cornell sucked all of a sudden.

3) I am 98% sure Columbia used a significant number of post-grad fellowships for its c/o 2011, and a number of those people were probably still on those fellowships at the 9-month mark. If I had to take a guess I would say a significantly smaller % of people at Columbia were on those fellowships at the 9-month mark than Cornell, but there were still probably a non-negligible number.

Cornell is a very, very strong school for NYC Biglaw, and will continue to be so. I do believe Columbia gives you a slightly better chance at it (although probably the biggest advantage for Columbia is getting you to a V-10 type of firm, which may or may not matter to you).

People are telling you Cornell because 120K is a HUGE amount of money, and sticker at Columbia is a MASSIVE amount of debt--like bordering on a quarter of a million dollars. Columbia and Cornell both give you a very good shot at NYC Biglaw, but neither of them guarantees it.

muddup
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:59 am

ahnhub wrote:
muddup wrote: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... istics.cfm

Ya basically the thing that scares me is Cornell's -38% decrease from '10 -> '11 in biglaw placement. Horrific. Currently they have 26 students on law school funded jobs, AND 19 people UNemployed, which is 22% of Cornell Law grads failing life...

Can anyone take this into consideration and say Cornell $120k definitely > Columbia?


1) Cornell truly did incredibly well for itself in 2010--it had 81% of its grads in a law firm of 100+ or federal clerkship, which was the best in the country--better than Harvard, Columbia, anybody. So part of that huge drop is just because Cornell really wasn't hit that bad in 2010 (a bunch of schools, including T-14s, were).

2) Cornell just seemed to have a very tough OCI in 2009 (which was the worst OCI ever). Other top schools did, too. Some schools fared better. It's very reasonable to take those results into consideration, but again, it was most likely a result of maybe a poor response to the crash and just plain bad luck, not necessarily employers just deciding Cornell sucked all of a sudden.

3) I am 98% sure Columbia used a significant number of post-grad fellowships for its c/o 2011, and a number of those people were probably still on those fellowships at the 9-month mark. If I had to take a guess I would say a significantly smaller % of people at Columbia were on those fellowships at the 9-month mark than Cornell, but there were still probably a non-negligible number.

Cornell is a very, very strong school for NYC Biglaw, and will continue to be so. I do believe Columbia gives you a slightly better chance at it (although probably the biggest advantage for Columbia is getting you to a V-10 type of firm, which may or may not matter to you).

People are telling you Cornell because 120K is a HUGE amount of money, and sticker at Columbia is a MASSIVE amount of debt--like bordering on a quarter of a million dollars. Columbia and Cornell both give you a very good shot at NYC Biglaw, but neither of them guarantees it.


OK thanks, does anyone else sharing this optimism like Cornell is Columbia's lil bro in terms of NYC biglaw placement?

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quiver
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby quiver » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:05 pm

muddup wrote:For NYC biglaw.
Absolutely Cornell. If you had other career goals/regions in mind then it would be somewhat tougher.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:07 pm

muddup wrote:
ahnhub wrote:
muddup wrote: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 1&t=181415

http://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/career ... istics.cfm

Ya basically the thing that scares me is Cornell's -38% decrease from '10 -> '11 in biglaw placement. Horrific. Currently they have 26 students on law school funded jobs, AND 19 people UNemployed, which is 22% of Cornell Law grads failing life...

Can anyone take this into consideration and say Cornell $120k definitely > Columbia?


1) Cornell truly did incredibly well for itself in 2010--it had 81% of its grads in a law firm of 100+ or federal clerkship, which was the best in the country--better than Harvard, Columbia, anybody. So part of that huge drop is just because Cornell really wasn't hit that bad in 2010 (a bunch of schools, including T-14s, were).

2) Cornell just seemed to have a very tough OCI in 2009 (which was the worst OCI ever). Other top schools did, too. Some schools fared better. It's very reasonable to take those results into consideration, but again, it was most likely a result of maybe a poor response to the crash and just plain bad luck, not necessarily employers just deciding Cornell sucked all of a sudden.

3) I am 98% sure Columbia used a significant number of post-grad fellowships for its c/o 2011, and a number of those people were probably still on those fellowships at the 9-month mark. If I had to take a guess I would say a significantly smaller % of people at Columbia were on those fellowships at the 9-month mark than Cornell, but there were still probably a non-negligible number.

Cornell is a very, very strong school for NYC Biglaw, and will continue to be so. I do believe Columbia gives you a slightly better chance at it (although probably the biggest advantage for Columbia is getting you to a V-10 type of firm, which may or may not matter to you).

People are telling you Cornell because 120K is a HUGE amount of money, and sticker at Columbia is a MASSIVE amount of debt--like bordering on a quarter of a million dollars. Columbia and Cornell both give you a very good shot at NYC Biglaw, but neither of them guarantees it.


OK thanks, does anyone else sharing this optimism like Cornell is Columbia's lil bro in terms of NYC biglaw placement?

Are you trolling? For sure anyone who voted Columbia here is trolling.

muddup
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:13 pm

No, absolutely not. I'm an international student. So I have the extra worry that basically if I don't get biglaw--and they are they only ones who are going to sponsor a work visa--then I miss law altogether, with a 100k+ debt. This is why I'm considering extra hard on whether I should pay extra for the NYC placement advantages with Columbia.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:25 pm

muddup wrote:No, absolutely not. I'm an international student. So I have the extra worry that basically if I don't get biglaw--and they are they only ones who are going to sponsor a work visa--then I miss law altogether, with a 100k+ debt. This is why I'm considering extra hard on whether I should pay extra for the NYC placement advantages with Columbia.

The answer is still no. I think you're ignoring the real worst case scenario: you go to Columbia, miss out on law altogether with a quarter million dollars in debt. HTH.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:26 pm

Cornell.

muddup
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:28 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
muddup wrote:No, absolutely not. I'm an international student. So I have the extra worry that basically if I don't get biglaw--and they are they only ones who are going to sponsor a work visa--then I miss law altogether, with a 100k+ debt. This is why I'm considering extra hard on whether I should pay extra for the NYC placement advantages with Columbia.

The answer is still no. I think you're ignoring the real worst case scenario: you go to Columbia, miss out on law altogether with a quarter million dollars in debt. HTH.


Alright, good point.

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bk1
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby bk1 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:28 pm

You're forgetting the secondary risk: not lasting long enough in biglaw to pay off your loans. I don't know what kind of loans you're getting but people who get US gov loans will be 270-300k in debt at graduation from CLS. That's going to take at least 5 years to pay off via NYC biglaw. Only 20% of biglaw associates make it to year 5, meaning you have an 80% chance of not being able to pay down your loans. The job you take after leaving biglaw likely will pay a big chunk less and if you have a decent amount left on your loans (anything higher than 50k-ish) means you will take a while to still pay that off.

I think this is easily Cornell.

09042014
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby 09042014 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:31 pm

I think the real difference, by the time you do OCI, between Cornell and Columbia will not be your chance of big law, but how prefstigious a firm you go to. Would you pay 120K at 8% interest to go to V5 instead of a V20? Probably not. So enjoy the gorges.

muddup
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:34 pm

bk1 wrote:You're forgetting the secondary risk: not lasting long enough in biglaw to pay off your loans. I don't know what kind of loans you're getting but people who get US gov loans will be 270-300k in debt at graduation from CLS. That's going to take at least 5 years to pay off via NYC biglaw. Only 20% of biglaw associates make it to year 5, meaning you have an 80% chance of not being able to pay down your loans. The job you take after leaving biglaw likely will pay a big chunk less and if you have a decent amount left on your loans (anything higher than 50k-ish) means you will take a while to still pay that off.

Ya I totally didn't think of that.

I think this is easily Cornell.
Desert Fox wrote:I think the real difference, by the time you do OCI, between Cornell and Columbia will not be your chance of big law, but how prefstigious a firm you go to. Would you pay 120K at 8% interest to go to V5 instead of a V20? Probably not. So enjoy the gorges.


Well if that's the only difference, as most people think, then (since I don't have more stats anyways) its definitely stupid to go Columbia.

Sincerely thanks for the response!

woeisme
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:07 pm

muddup wrote:
Currently they have 26 students on law school funded jobs, AND 19 people UNemployed, which is 22% of Cornell Law grads failing life...

Can anyone take this into consideration and say Cornell $120k definitely > Columbia?


When was that posted, do you know? I graduated Cornell class of 2011 and know at least five people who have landed biglaw after graduating with a law school-funded job. Also, obviously, the market is really picking up and the classes after mine have fared a lot better. Class of 2011 basically just got fucked.

Anyway, Columbia has an edge over Cornell for NYC biglaw, but that edge is not at all worth $120k (for the vast majority of people). If your only hesitation is employment prospects, I wouldn't let that deter you too much ... your odds are still very good from Cornell and with that kind of cash it makes it TCR.

ahnhub
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby ahnhub » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:07 pm

woeisme wrote:
muddup wrote:
Currently they have 26 students on law school funded jobs, AND 19 people UNemployed, which is 22% of Cornell Law grads failing life...

Can anyone take this into consideration and say Cornell $120k definitely > Columbia?


When was that posted, do you know? I graduated Cornell class of 2011 and know at least five people who have landed biglaw after graduating with a law school-funded job. Also, obviously, the market is really picking up and the classes after mine have fared a lot better. Class of 2011 basically just got fucked.


Out of curiosity, do you know how they managed to do this? Did they get it through 3L OCI? I was under the impression it was basically impossible to get Biglaw if you don't have it by the time you graduate.

woeisme
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Re: Deposit Deadline help! Cornell $$$ vs Columbia

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:18 pm

ahnhub wrote:
Out of curiosity, do you know how they managed to do this? Did they get it through 3L OCI? I was under the impression it was basically impossible to get Biglaw if you don't have it by the time you graduate.


I only know how three of them got it. None of them got it through OCI. Although the circumstances were a little different for each person, they all got it through just spamming their resumes.




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