NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year (UPDATE)

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GULC v NU v Next Year

GULC sticker
3
7%
NU sticker
22
54%
Next Year
16
39%
 
Total votes: 41

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RonnyDworkin
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby RonnyDworkin » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:34 pm

3.4x/173; Not a URM.

Applied ED to NYU. Got in with initial batch and got a decent scholarship (50-60K). Also heard from GULC, UVA, Michigan, and Northwestern (all acceptances) before withdrawing my applications.

Was your application and softs as strong as you think they were? Unless there's a big difference in your app, I don't think reapplying would help.

Edited: Also got 54K from Michigan before withdrawing or sending in my finaid info. If you decide to reapply, you should strongly change your application. Something clearly went wrong.

rec345
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:32 pm

Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby rec345 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:51 pm

RonnyDworkin wrote:3.4x/173; Not a URM.

Applied ED to NYU. Got in with initial batch and got a decent scholarship (50-60K). Also heard from GULC, UVA, Michigan, and Northwestern (all acceptances) before withdrawing my applications.

Was your application and softs as strong as you think they were? Unless there's a big difference in your app, I don't think reapplying would help.

Edited: Also got 54K from Michigan before withdrawing or sending in my finaid info. If you decide to reapply, you should strongly change your application. Something clearly went wrong.


God, this is exactly what I suspected when I wrote my OP, haha, that others with similar numbers were getting money. I applied a bit late (mid-december), I wonder if that could be the difference?

rec345
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:32 pm

Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby rec345 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:57 pm

UPDATE: I just received an email from UVA's Director of Admissions saying he would like me to call him next week to discuss my interest in the school. I'm interpreting this as saying that if I verbally commit I will be accepted off the waitlist. Does this change anyone's opinion? I loved NU and haven't visited UVA, but just the fact that COA would be significantly lower at UVA (does anyone have any number's on this? the one TLS thread I saw actually only estimated about 10k total difference, which seems low) might be enough to swing my decision towards them. I'm not sure what to say when I call, because by commiting I'd be eliminating my chances to get off the waitlists at Penn, NYU, and Columbia. Thoughts? The NU tuition deposit deadline is next Monday, so I'm really stressed out about this...

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rayiner
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby rayiner » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:13 pm

rec345 wrote:UPDATE: I just received an email from UVA's Director of Admissions saying he would like me to call him next week to discuss my interest in the school. I'm interpreting this as saying that if I verbally commit I will be accepted off the waitlist. Does this change anyone's opinion? I loved NU and haven't visited UVA, but just the fact that COA would be significantly lower at UVA (does anyone have any number's on this? the one TLS thread I saw actually only estimated about 10k total difference, which seems low) might be enough to swing my decision towards them. I'm not sure what to say when I call, because by commiting I'd be eliminating my chances to get off the waitlists at Penn, NYU, and Columbia. Thoughts? The NU tuition deposit deadline is next Monday, so I'm really stressed out about this...


Are you in-state at UVA?

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Samara
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby Samara » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:16 pm

rec345 wrote:UPDATE: I just received an email from UVA's Director of Admissions saying he would like me to call him next week to discuss my interest in the school. I'm interpreting this as saying that if I verbally commit I will be accepted off the waitlist. Does this change anyone's opinion? I loved NU and haven't visited UVA, but just the fact that COA would be significantly lower at UVA (does anyone have any number's on this? the one TLS thread I saw actually only estimated about 10k total difference, which seems low) might be enough to swing my decision towards them. I'm not sure what to say when I call, because by commiting I'd be eliminating my chances to get off the waitlists at Penn, NYU, and Columbia. Thoughts? The NU tuition deposit deadline is next Monday, so I'm really stressed out about this...

The thing is, you're paying sticker so $10k or $15k doesn't really make a difference. You're still going to have to get biglaw and a few extra thousand just means a few extra months of biglaw. How do you like UVa from what you've been able to figure out?

I would go with NU because you really like it there, Chicago is a much better place to spend three years, you get tremendous access to the Chicago market if you decide you want it, and it preserves your ability to ride the other waitlists. Personally, that's worth the difference in COA to me, but if you'd rather minimize your debt load as much as possible and get out of biglaw as soon as possible that's totally understandable.

Job prospects are at least even, if not tipped towards NU, as NU has historically placed above its ranking for biglaw. Additionally, NU puts you in a strong position for both of your possible target markets, whereas UVa has strong placement for NYC but not as strong for Chicago.

Paul Campos
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby Paul Campos » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:18 pm

rec345 wrote:UPDATE: I just received an email from UVA's Director of Admissions saying he would like me to call him next week to discuss my interest in the school. I'm interpreting this as saying that if I verbally commit I will be accepted off the waitlist. Does this change anyone's opinion? I loved NU and haven't visited UVA, but just the fact that COA would be significantly lower at UVA (does anyone have any number's on this? the one TLS thread I saw actually only estimated about 10k total difference, which seems low) might be enough to swing my decision towards them. I'm not sure what to say when I call, because by commiting I'd be eliminating my chances to get off the waitlists at Penn, NYU, and Columbia. Thoughts? The NU tuition deposit deadline is next Monday, so I'm really stressed out about this...


I think if you go now you're buying into a falling market. Since you aren't averse to sitting out a year why not see if that 173 gets you better financial options next cycle? My guess is that it will -- there are all kinds of signs that law school admissions are softening, even at T-14 schools (I suspect that a couple of years ago UVA wouldn't have been calling up a splitter in the last week of April to see if they could get him/her to commit off the waitlist).

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Tadatsune
Posts: 181
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:18 pm

rec345 wrote:UPDATE: I just received an email from UVA's Director of Admissions saying he would like me to call him next week to discuss my interest in the school. I'm interpreting this as saying that if I verbally commit I will be accepted off the waitlist. Does this change anyone's opinion? I loved NU and haven't visited UVA, but just the fact that COA would be significantly lower at UVA (does anyone have any number's on this? the one TLS thread I saw actually only estimated about 10k total difference, which seems low) might be enough to swing my decision towards them. I'm not sure what to say when I call, because by commiting I'd be eliminating my chances to get off the waitlists at Penn, NYU, and Columbia. Thoughts? The NU tuition deposit deadline is next Monday, so I'm really stressed out about this...


I wouldn't bank on getting in anywhere off a waitlist, if I were you. (Though, I just withdrew from NYU if that helps you out.) I'd go ahead and deposit at NU when the time comes - usually you don't need to withdraw from wait lists for that. As to UVA... do you want to go to UVA? 'cause if you do, the (apparently) low cost of attendance seems like justification enough. While personally I would hesitate slightly at committing to a school I had never visited, it would make sense in your situation. That said, if you loved NU you wouldn't be wrong in sticking with that. Make the decision between the opportunities you have currently. Don't concern yourself with where you might have gotten in if you rode the waitlists; that's just pointless waist of mental effort.
Last edited by Tadatsune on Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samara
Posts: 3245
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby Samara » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:23 pm

Paul Campos wrote:
rec345 wrote:UPDATE: I just received an email from UVA's Director of Admissions saying he would like me to call him next week to discuss my interest in the school. I'm interpreting this as saying that if I verbally commit I will be accepted off the waitlist. Does this change anyone's opinion? I loved NU and haven't visited UVA, but just the fact that COA would be significantly lower at UVA (does anyone have any number's on this? the one TLS thread I saw actually only estimated about 10k total difference, which seems low) might be enough to swing my decision towards them. I'm not sure what to say when I call, because by commiting I'd be eliminating my chances to get off the waitlists at Penn, NYU, and Columbia. Thoughts? The NU tuition deposit deadline is next Monday, so I'm really stressed out about this...


I think if you go now you're buying into a falling market. Since you aren't averse to sitting out a year why not see if that 173 gets you better financial options next cycle? My guess is that it will -- there are all kinds of signs that law school admissions are softening, even at T-14 schools (I suspect that a couple of years ago UVA wouldn't have been calling up a splitter in the last week of April to see if they could get him/her to commit off the waitlist).

While I think I'm inclined to agree that next cycle will again be weak and splitter-friendly, I don't think you can take UVa's action as justification. UVa has a history of aggressively pursuing splitters. If this were Duke or something...

And considering that any scholarships would be small and the increased chance of receiving them are not exactly high, I'm not sure it's worth it to forgo a year of biglaw income (however that is calculated). There's no clear reason to believe OP "underperformed" his cycle, so OP could easily end up with the same results next year, even in another down cycle.

rec345
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:32 pm

Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby rec345 » Tue May 01, 2012 2:12 pm

rayiner wrote:Are you in-state at UVA?


Nope, I'm originally from the midwest, so no in-state tuition. I'm having a hard time working out if UVA would actually be the significantly cheaper option, especially once added costs (e.g. having a car) are added in. The TLS COA thread had them very close to equal.


Samara wrote:How do you like UVa from what you've been able to figure out?


I'm actually pretty intrigued by Cville and the whole UVA culture. I've spent all of my adult life living in big cities, including during UG, so the idea of living in a college town for three years is kind of interesting (although maybe it'd get dull fast). I've also noticed that UVA Law seems to have a cult of adoration - on internet forums at least - that other top schools don't, wrt the culture and QOL. I can't quite decide what to make of this, or how much attention to pay to it. Unfortunately there's zero chance of me being able to visit before making a decision.

Samara wrote:I would go with NU .... you get tremendous access to the Chicago market if you decide you want it... Job prospects are at least even, if not tipped towards NU, as NU has historically placed above its ranking for biglaw. Additionally, NU puts you in a strong position for both of your possible target markets, whereas UVa has strong placement for NYC but not as strong for Chicago.


This is really the key thing. I am by no means a ranking whore, but I just can't seem to pierce the echo chamber in order to really ascertain whether or not UVA, being a "T10", would actually give me a tangible lift wrt job prospects. This is way more important than QOL for me, seeing as how I'll be paying sticker. I know NU consistently punches above its weight, and I've seen Rayiner's stats, but it also seems like there's no way to account for self-selection and WE. Again I'd ideally like to work in Cali (limited ties), NY, or Chicago, if that matters.

Anyway, NU has given me an extension on my tuition deposit, so my angst continues, haha.

rec345
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:32 pm

Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby rec345 » Tue May 01, 2012 2:14 pm

Also, have officially withdrawn from GULC. Good luck to whoever takes my place!

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Samara
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Re: NU/GULC sticker v Apply next year

Postby Samara » Tue May 01, 2012 2:49 pm

rec345 wrote:
Samara wrote:I would go with NU .... you get tremendous access to the Chicago market if you decide you want it... Job prospects are at least even, if not tipped towards NU, as NU has historically placed above its ranking for biglaw. Additionally, NU puts you in a strong position for both of your possible target markets, whereas UVa has strong placement for NYC but not as strong for Chicago.


This is really the key thing. I am by no means a ranking whore, but I just can't seem to pierce the echo chamber in order to really ascertain whether or not UVA, being a "T10", would actually give me a tangible lift wrt job prospects. This is way more important than QOL for me, seeing as how I'll be paying sticker. I know NU consistently punches above its weight, and I've seen Rayiner's stats, but it also seems like there's no way to account for self-selection and WE. Again I'd ideally like to work in Cali (limited ties), NY, or Chicago, if that matters.

Anyway, NU has given me an extension on my tuition deposit, so my angst continues, haha.

I have nothing to back this up, but I don't think if you were to remove WE and self-selection from the equation that there would be a meaningful difference in biglaw prospects. Maybe for fedgov or clerking UVa would have a significant advantage, but not for biglaw. Maybe it's the presence of Kellogg? Penn also places above its ranking for biglaw and is the only other T14 school with an M7 business school. Again, just speculation.

With your target markets, I'd go with NU. If your targets were NY, DC and the South, I'd say UVa. They're functionally even for NYC, NU has a clear advantage in Chicago, and NU has a large contingent from/to Cali.




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