MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:36 am

Hello all. New to this board. I received a 75% scholarship to MSU (about 9K annually after scholarship) and have been hearing good things about the school relative to its ranking. I have lived in and around Los Angeles most of my life, however, and am somewhat partial to big cities. I received 13K from Chicago-Kent (still about 29K per year after scholarship) and 25K to Seton Hall (about 20K). Also still waiting on several schools in the 15-50 rankings range. I really like the idea of living in Chicago, and I like what I've heard about their Legal Writing and Intellectual Property programs, but not sure it is worth 20K a year for a school only ranked 20 places higher in the rankings. Thoughts?

station4
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:48 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby station4 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:47 pm

gtrbrndn wrote:Hello all. New to this board. I received a 75% scholarship to MSU (about 9K annually after scholarship) and have been hearing good things about the school relative to its ranking. I have lived in and around Los Angeles most of my life, however, and am somewhat partial to big cities. I received 13K from Chicago-Kent (still about 29K per year after scholarship) and 25K to Seton Hall (about 20K). Also still waiting on several schools in the 15-50 rankings range. I really like the idea of living in Chicago, and I like what I've heard about their Legal Writing and Intellectual Property programs, but not sure it is worth 20K a year for a school only ranked 20 places higher in the rankings. Thoughts?


I can't speak at all to MSU or Seton Hall, but I would approach Kent with trepidation at 13K a year in scholarship. Have you tried negotiating with them? I know their deposit date is coming up, but it might be worth a shot to see if you can get some more money. That being said, the conventional wisdom around here is that the Loyola/Kent/DePaul trifecta in Chicago is rough at pretty much anything short of a full ride. Legal hiring here is rough, you have Chicago and Northwestern in city, plus a whole host of other schools feeding into Chicago (Michigan/UIUC/WUSTL/Notre Dame) to compete with, and the cost of living is going to push up your total cost of attendance significantly from 29K/year. Chicago is a great city and I think Kent is probably a fine school, but I would probably not relocate across the country to go to Kent with only 13K/year in scholarships. Reading through this board for any significant amount of time will yield that the common advice seems to be "Short of a national school, go to a strong regional school in an area where you have ties and want to work. If these are not options, retake the LSAT and reapply."

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:52 pm

A few additional comments: I am not adverse to living in Michigan, just stating a preference. I have heard only good things about it, and my father's side of the family is from that area. Also, for the inevitable "stay in California" comment, I am still waiting on UCLA (my undergrad), Loyola (Los Angeles) and Davis. Rejected from Berkeley. If I get into UCLA or Davis without a scholarship, would it be worth the extra cost? Also waitlisted at Illinois, Richmond (priority with an essential guarantee), and Connecticut. Any suggestions/advice would be incredibly helpful.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:55 pm

"I can't speak at all to MSU or Seton Hall, but I would approach Kent with trepidation at 13K a year in scholarship. Have you tried negotiating with them? I know their deposit date is coming up, but it might be worth a shot to see if you can get some more money. That being said, the conventional wisdom around here is that the Loyola/Kent/DePaul trifecta in Chicago is rough at pretty much anything short of a full ride. Legal hiring here is rough, you have Chicago and Northwestern in city, plus a whole host of other schools feeding into Chicago (Michigan/UIUC/WUSTL/Notre Dame) to compete with, and the cost of living is going to push up your total cost of attendance significantly from 29K/year. Chicago is a great city and I think Kent is probably a fine school, but I would probably not relocate across the country to go to Kent with only 13K/year in scholarships. Reading through this board for any significant amount of time will yield that the common advice seems to be "Short of a national school, go to a strong regional school in an area where you have ties and want to work. If these are not options, retake the LSAT and reapply."

Sorry, just saw this. Yes, I have been reading this about Kent. Thanks for your reply. How does one go about negotiating a higher scholarship? Do I call them and tell them MSU is giving me more money?

dap2
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby dap2 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:10 pm

I will qualify this by saying I am a 0L, but did look into both schools during the application process.

Chicago-Kent's placement seems to be better, but in my opinion it is not worth 29K per year. Living expenses in Chicago will probably run you an additional 20K per year. You would likely exceed 150K in total debt by the time you factor in tuition increases, ect.

MSU gives students a very meager allowance for living expenses - based on their COA it looks like you would incur a total debt of around 60K.

Is it worth almost twice the cost to live in Chicago for 3 years? Maybe, if you really want to live and work in Chicago permanently - but probably not.

Also, it is my understanding highly ranked specialty programs mean very little for legal employment. Also, if you are interested in IP you will need a science background to be competitive for jobs. This isn't something I know much about, but maybe someone else can comment further.

It might be helpful to future posters if you indicate where you want to work after school, as this should be a big factor in your decision. Neither of these schools has a good chance of getting you back to the West Coast.

Good luck!

dap2
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:27 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby dap2 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:20 pm

In regard to scholarship negotiation -

Try searching, there are many threads on here devoted to it. I successfully used some of the suggestions on here to get additional aid. You should probably email rather than call.

station4
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:48 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby station4 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:00 pm

gtrbrndn wrote:"I can't speak at all to MSU or Seton Hall, but I would approach Kent with trepidation at 13K a year in scholarship. Have you tried negotiating with them? I know their deposit date is coming up, but it might be worth a shot to see if you can get some more money. That being said, the conventional wisdom around here is that the Loyola/Kent/DePaul trifecta in Chicago is rough at pretty much anything short of a full ride. Legal hiring here is rough, you have Chicago and Northwestern in city, plus a whole host of other schools feeding into Chicago (Michigan/UIUC/WUSTL/Notre Dame) to compete with, and the cost of living is going to push up your total cost of attendance significantly from 29K/year. Chicago is a great city and I think Kent is probably a fine school, but I would probably not relocate across the country to go to Kent with only 13K/year in scholarships. Reading through this board for any significant amount of time will yield that the common advice seems to be "Short of a national school, go to a strong regional school in an area where you have ties and want to work. If these are not options, retake the LSAT and reapply."

Sorry, just saw this. Yes, I have been reading this about Kent. Thanks for your reply. How does one go about negotiating a higher scholarship? Do I call them and tell them MSU is giving me more money?


I PM'd you about this. Check your inbox.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:05 pm

station4 wrote:
gtrbrndn wrote:"I can't speak at all to MSU or Seton Hall, but I would approach Kent with trepidation at 13K a year in scholarship. Have you tried negotiating with them? I know their deposit date is coming up, but it might be worth a shot to see if you can get some more money. That being said, the conventional wisdom around here is that the Loyola/Kent/DePaul trifecta in Chicago is rough at pretty much anything short of a full ride. Legal hiring here is rough, you have Chicago and Northwestern in city, plus a whole host of other schools feeding into Chicago (Michigan/UIUC/WUSTL/Notre Dame) to compete with, and the cost of living is going to push up your total cost of attendance significantly from 29K/year. Chicago is a great city and I think Kent is probably a fine school, but I would probably not relocate across the country to go to Kent with only 13K/year in scholarships. Reading through this board for any significant amount of time will yield that the common advice seems to be "Short of a national school, go to a strong regional school in an area where you have ties and want to work. If these are not options, retake the LSAT and reapply."

Sorry, just saw this. Yes, I have been reading this about Kent. Thanks for your reply. How does one go about negotiating a higher scholarship? Do I call them and tell them MSU is giving me more money?


I PM'd you about this. Check your inbox.

Thank you so much, I got it. I will definitely do this today.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:33 pm

dap2 wrote:I will qualify this by saying I am a 0L, but did look into both schools during the application process.

Chicago-Kent's placement seems to be better, but in my opinion it is not worth 29K per year. Living expenses in Chicago will probably run you an additional 20K per year. You would likely exceed 150K in total debt by the time you factor in tuition increases, ect.

MSU gives students a very meager allowance for living expenses - based on their COA it looks like you would incur a total debt of around 60K.

Is it worth almost twice the cost to live in Chicago for 3 years? Maybe, if you really want to live and work in Chicago permanently - but probably not.

Also, it is my understanding highly ranked specialty programs mean very little for legal employment. Also, if you are interested in IP you will need a science background to be competitive for jobs. This isn't something I know much about, but maybe someone else can comment further.

It might be helpful to future posters if you indicate where you want to work after school, as this should be a big factor in your decision. Neither of these schools has a good chance of getting you back to the West Coast.

Good luck!


Thanks, and I should have mentioned that. I have lived in California my entire life, and am not looking for a school to get me back here necessarily. Like I said in an earlier post, I would love to go to UCLA or Davis if they will have me, but we will see. Still waiting. Other than that, every school I am considering is from either the upper midwest Michigan/Chicago area or the east coast. Still waiting to hear from Maryland, waitlisted at Illinois and Connecticut, and am priority waitlisted at Richmond (was told I was virtually in after first deposit). Again, not sure if any of those are worth possibly paying sticker or taking a lesser scholarship. Is anyone else still waiting on (several) schools' decisions? I figured they would have waitlisted me by this point if anything.

bdole2
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby bdole2 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:06 am

These schools are all super regional. And in different regions. You need to decide WHERE you want to practice law, as where you go to school is most likely where you get a job (for these schools)

From your posts, it sounds like you would prefer to be in Cali long term?

What is your GPA / LSAT?

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:02 am

bdole2 wrote:These schools are all super regional. And in different regions. You need to decide WHERE you want to practice law, as where you go to school is most likely where you get a job (for these schools)

From your posts, it sounds like you would prefer to be in Cali long term?

What is your GPA / LSAT?

I get that. I've lived in California my entire life, and am not at all tied to coming back here. I'm not terribly concerned with the WHERE, as I want to make my decision based on the school, scholarship, and location together as a package. The schools I've chosen are all in locations I've thought about moving to.

3.57 (UCLA)/159, not a URM

bdole2
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby bdole2 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:12 am

gtrbrndn wrote:I get that. I've lived in California my entire life, and am not at all tied to coming back here. I'm not terribly concerned with the WHERE, as I want to make my decision based on the school, scholarship, and location together as a package. The schools I've chosen are all in locations I've thought about moving to.

3.57 (UCLA)/159, not a URM


Have you visited these schools / the cities they feed their graduates into? Why would you relocate and leave whatever life you have for mediocre job prospects in an over-saturated field? Why do you want to go to law school?

3.57 isn't horrible, but your LSAT is really holding you back. You should definitely consider retaking the LSAT and getting into some better schools / getting better scholarship offers.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:03 pm

bdole2 wrote:
gtrbrndn wrote:I get that. I've lived in California my entire life, and am not at all tied to coming back here. I'm not terribly concerned with the WHERE, as I want to make my decision based on the school, scholarship, and location together as a package. The schools I've chosen are all in locations I've thought about moving to.

3.57 (UCLA)/159, not a URM


Have you visited these schools / the cities they feed their graduates into? Why would you relocate and leave whatever life you have for mediocre job prospects in an over-saturated field? Why do you want to go to law school?

3.57 isn't horrible, but your LSAT is really holding you back. You should definitely consider retaking the LSAT and getting into some better schools / getting better scholarship offers.


I have visited most of the cities I mentioned, but I really only provided the list to show the POSSIBLE choices I have. I will be visiting all schools I put deposits down on. Right now, at schools I have gotten into, the most attractive option is MSU at about 8.5K tuition after scholarship, and it is the only one I have given a deposit. I have family in Michigan and Ohio, and while I am not counting on it, I do know that they place some students in Illinois. When I hear from UCLA, Davis, and a few others, my options will become much clearer.
To qualify my situation some more, I am not a recent college graduate. I've worked four years in public education and the situation is getting worse with budget cuts/standardized testing/a million other issues I'm sure you are aware of. It's not something I want to do for the rest of my life. I'm not going to try to answer the last question, because anything I write on an internet forum is going to be attacked by somebody. It is something I have spent years thinking about. I am well aware of the risks.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:08 pm

bdole2 wrote:
gtrbrndn wrote:I get that. I've lived in California my entire life, and am not at all tied to coming back here. I'm not terribly concerned with the WHERE, as I want to make my decision based on the school, scholarship, and location together as a package. The schools I've chosen are all in locations I've thought about moving to.

3.57 (UCLA)/159, not a URM


Have you visited these schools / the cities they feed their graduates into? Why would you relocate and leave whatever life you have for mediocre job prospects in an over-saturated field? Why do you want to go to law school?

3.57 isn't horrible, but your LSAT is really holding you back. You should definitely consider retaking the LSAT and getting into some better schools / getting better scholarship offers.

In reference to retaking the LSAT, yes, it is something I will consider once I have all my offers. I had read previously that retaking the LSAT was marginally helpful, at best, unless you improved significantly, and even then, that schools were skeptical of the first score. I see now from reading this forum that this is not the case. Thanks for your advice.

apeopleshistory
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:14 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby apeopleshistory » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:23 pm

.
Last edited by apeopleshistory on Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:43 pm

apeopleshistory wrote:3 points took me from $0 to 81k at a T2. I then used that as leverage for the school I will be attending in the fall on scholarship with a good standing stip.

You owe it to yourself to retake, so retake.

Update: Asked for more money from Chicago-Kent (waiting), got waitlisted at Davis. Still waiting on UCLA. Not going to deposit at any other schools (already did at MSU with the 3/4 scholarship).

Questions then:
Is UCLA worth going at sticker? It was my undergrad.
Is Davis, say I somehow get off the waitlist, worth considering at sticker or with a small scholarship?

As far as retaking, I am considering it, depending on visits and how this all turns out. I mentioned this earlier, but I'm working in public education right now. Having a full-time career, minus obviously the two month summer, made it hard to consistently study for the LSAT and apply in the first place, and led to me applying late in the cycle as letters of recs/personal statements were difficult to complete in the fall/winter in addition to grading/planning/etc. Should I decide to wait it out a year, I would probably do something else and make LSAT domination my only goal. Would this look terrible to law schools, as my four-year career may (?) have made me more appealing before?

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:14 pm

Job prospects at both at absolutely miserable. See Law School Transparency. MSU without ties is a bad idea, and Kent would cost 170-180k. I cannot stress this enough: do not go to these schools, especially Kent. Study your ass off, retake, and reapply. You owe it to yourself to give it your all, and you are setting yourself up for career and financial trouble if you don't.

dissonance1848
Posts: 706
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:29 pm

Romo speaks words of wisdom. Retake.

gtrbrndn
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby gtrbrndn » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:20 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Romo speaks words of wisdom. Retake.

Anger->Denial->Emptiness->Acceptance. Unless something happens with my waitlists, I'm going to teach one more year and retake. Thank you everyone for the sage advice--I wish I had come here earlier.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: MSU 75% Scholarship vs. Chicago-Kent 13K Scholarship

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:27 pm

Great decision and best of luck OP! Make good use of the LSAT resources on TLS and let us know how it turns out.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: carasrook, phelpsy, vintageblazers, Yahoo [Bot] and 4 guests