Mizzou or UIUC

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What should I do?

Poll ended at Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:59 pm

Go to Mizzou
28
56%
Go to UIUC
12
24%
Drive until I run out of gas, dig a hole, and live in it
10
20%
 
Total votes: 50

dap2
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Mizzou or UIUC

Postby dap2 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:59 pm

Background -

I do not want biglaw - I'd prefer a smaller firm or possibly government (D.A. office).

Total Cost (do not have to pay living expenses)

Mizzou: 36K - Edit: Cost is now $30K
UIUC: $110 K - Edit: Cost is now $63K


I own a house in the town where Mizzou is located, so I'd have a better living situation there.

I'm okay with staying in Missouri, but worry about the portability of the Mizzou degree if I decide I want to live elsewhere later.

I loved UIUC when I visited, but given my goals I'm just not sure it is worth the cost. There is a good chance that after loan payments I wouldn't be earning much more than I already do now.

Before everyone starts screaming retake - given my GPA and aversion to applying E.D., the chances of gaining admission to an elite school are very small.

For all the elitists out there that think both options are total crap, I have added a 3rd option to the poll. It may indeed be the most financially sound option.

Thank you for your opinion! Feel free to give your reasoning in a reply.
Last edited by dap2 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.

dap2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby dap2 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:20 pm

Thanks to those of you that voted. If you have a moment, I'd like to hear your reasoning, please.

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Gail
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Gail » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:33 pm

Voted Missouri. You're from there. It's as cheap as you can get. If you do really well you can try transferring out. If not, you saved a lot of money for less portability and less prestige, but a legal degree with very little risk.

Then again, this was pretty hard for me, because 110k really isn't that bad for a UIUC law degree.

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mmkitkat
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby mmkitkat » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:44 pm

Also voted Missouri, because considering what you want to do and your not-absolute aversion to staying in Missouri, it might be for the best to avoid debt. Also, since it is possible that you could do well and work hard enough to try moving elsewhere in the midwest, Missouri isn't necessarily a bad option. If you think you'll end up not wanting to stay in MO or have some other compelling reason other than prestige to go to UIUC, I might make a different call, but as it appears, that's what I would probably do.

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romothesavior
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:09 pm

This is a slam dunk for Mizzou. 36k for a law degree from Mizzou is a great deal, you have Mizzou ties and a house in Columbia, and Illinois is not worth an additional 80k. Not sure who the 4 people are who voted UIUC, but c'mon.

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Gail
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Gail » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:14 pm

romothesavior wrote:This is a slam dunk for Mizzou. 36k for a law degree from Mizzou is a great deal, you have Mizzou ties and a house in Columbia, and Illinois is not worth an additional 80k. Not sure who the 4 people are who voted UIUC, but c'mon.


Illini alumns?

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romothesavior
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby romothesavior » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:18 pm

Gail wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This is a slam dunk for Mizzou. 36k for a law degree from Mizzou is a great deal, you have Mizzou ties and a house in Columbia, and Illinois is not worth an additional 80k. Not sure who the 4 people are who voted UIUC, but c'mon.


Illini alumns?

Probably, and I hate that. I love WUSTL and I probably have some bias in close cases, but I am more than capable and often do tell people to take another school over it when the time is right. This is just clearly in Missouri's favor. It's not even close.

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Ludo!
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Ludo! » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:23 pm

Illinois student here - mizzou all the way

dap2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby dap2 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:15 pm

Thanks to everyone that took the time to reply. Mizzou seems to be the best choice financially, but I wanted to see what others thought.

I'd like to see the reasoning behind the Illinois voters. Maybe they will come out of hiding eventually.

bdole2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby bdole2 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:20 pm

I voted for UIUC before I read your post. Go to Mizzou.

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JoeFish
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby JoeFish » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:37 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:Illinois student here - mizzou all the way


Agreed, since you're cool working in Missouri. You're already in Missouri, can go there for very little cost... yeah this is fairly clear-cut, I think.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:27 am

Due to the high cost of gas, eliminate your third option & focus on the two less costly alternatives: Missouri and Illinois.

dap2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby dap2 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:50 pm

Good point, I wasn't thinking about the cost of gas. Luckily living in a hole in the ground does not have much of an opportunity cost, so that simplifies things.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:45 pm

Gail wrote:
romothesavior wrote:This is a slam dunk for Mizzou. 36k for a law degree from Mizzou is a great deal, you have Mizzou ties and a house in Columbia, and Illinois is not worth an additional 80k. Not sure who the 4 people are who voted UIUC, but c'mon.


Illini alumns?


this is the problem with polls on TLS.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:52 pm

UIUC is not prestigious or portable. This was the school that was so desperate for success that the dean LIED about the incoming stats for consecutive 1L classes. For one class, the median LSAT was reported at 167 when it reality it was 163.

If USNEWS really cared about applicants, it would provide information for all schools but only rank the top 15, the ones that could actually help you to get hired by "prestigious" law firms in a different parts of the country.

Figure out where you want to work, and go to the best law school in that state if you can afford to do so. If not, either decide you want to live somewhere else, or decided to retake.

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JoeFish
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby JoeFish » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:16 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:UIUC is not prestigious or portable. This was the school that was so desperate for success that the dean LIED about the incoming stats for consecutive 1L classes. For one class, the median LSAT was reported at 167 when it reality it was 163.

If USNEWS really cared about applicants, it would provide information for all schools but only rank the top 15, the ones that could actually help you to get hired by "prestigious" law firms in a different parts of the country.

Figure out where you want to work, and go to the best law school in that state if you can afford to do so. If not, either decide you want to live somewhere else, or decided to retake.


Who said it was? I almost wrote "hey, listen, UIUC's not gonna give you portability either" in my previous post, but I didn't because I thought it was obvious.

Umm, yeah, admissions scandal. I don't think you should be choosing Missou over UIUC simply because of that, but, yeah, everyone's already acknowledged that this one's heavily in Missou's favor, and I'm pretty sure would have been before the scandal here.

And, to OP, by the way,
dap2 wrote:but given my goals I'm just not sure it is worth the cost. There is a good chance that after loan payments I wouldn't be earning much more than I already do now.

^^^ just knowing that puts you well, well ahead of the game compared to most 0Ls on here

dap2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby dap2 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:20 pm

Lord Randolph McD - the best school in my state (US News Rankings wise) is WUSTL. I think it would amount to the same thing as UIUC. Without a pretty substantial scholarship it may not be worth the cost for me personally.

And with my 3.2 GPA, a retake by no means guarantees me a T14 acceptance.

Joe Fish - Good points, thank you. I'm new here, but I'm starting to see that there are far too many people that are overly optimistic about the financial side of things. Too easy to just click and accept all that unsecured debt, I suppose.

bdole2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby bdole2 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:51 pm

You could get into WUSTL with a 3.2 if you retook though....with some money too

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:41 pm

WUSTL is a really good school and you could get in with some money if you could get above their median (166?). If you have good ties to the area and weren't going into more than 90k or so debt, I bet you could make it work.

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romothesavior
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby romothesavior » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:53 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:WUSTL is a really good school and you could get in with some money if you could get above their median (166?). If you have good ties to the area and weren't going into more than 90k or so debt, I bet you could make it work.

I agree with this. WUSTL is very good for people from Missouri/Kansas/downstate Illinois/Arkansas, etc. If you could go for less than six figures in debt, it might be worth it because you would be far more "job secure" and have a better shot at biglaw. Plus the school itself is awesome. That said, Mizzou for 36k is just such a steal that I think it is hard to pass up. Having a house there already is another factor in Mizzou's favor. I wish I knew more about Mizzou's job placement so I could advise one way or the other, but I don't think I can.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:37 pm

So... that is a total of 36k debt? Or do you have the money to cover this thing?

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Gecko of Doom
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Gecko of Doom » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:47 pm

dap2 wrote:Lord Randolph McD - the best school in my state (US News Rankings wise) is WUSTL. I think it would amount to the same thing as UIUC. Without a pretty substantial scholarship it may not be worth the cost for me personally.

If you're looking to work in Missouri, the impression I've gotten is that WUSTL will get you further than UIUC. People in Missouri seem to see WUSTL almost as a sort of quasi-Ivy. If you wanted Missouri biglaw/midlaw, WUSTL would probably be your best bet outside the T14 (and maybe Vandy).

However, since you don't want biglaw, I would probably recommend Mizzou, even if you got into WUSTL. Mizzou is pretty well-respected in the state, and with such a low COA, you'd be able to take just about any job you could find without worrying too much about debt. And if you're thinking about government, pretty much any Missouri government office is going to be chock full of Mizzou alums.

dap2
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby dap2 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:12 pm

L.R. McD. - I'd likely be taking out the $36 K in loans. I could cash out my 401K, but that seems like a bad idea due to penalties.

Romo - Mizzou's placement leaves something to be desired. Below median students may find themselves in a difficult spot. However, they do have a significantly higher percentage of grads in government jobs than either UIUC or WUSTL. Maybe because their grads can afford to take those jobs?

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romothesavior
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby romothesavior » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:43 pm

dap2 wrote: Maybe because their grads can afford to take those jobs?

Or because that's about all there is available for most of them. I would imagine far more Mizzou students take jobs in rural Missouri than WUSTL students do. Think small PD/prosecutor/county counselor type offices. You're not getting much competition from us for those kinds of jobs, as the vast majority of WUSTL people are either staying in STL or leaving the state.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Mizzou or UIUC

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:52 pm

I'm sure if you are below median at WUSTL, employers will say something like-- "these are respectable grades for WUSTL." That is the benefit from going to the really respected school.

However, is that worth another 80k/90k/100k? These are the decisions that are always being made.

I made the same decision but in the state of colorado. I had a full at DU and some money at CU, and chose to pay 56k more for CU so I could have the benefit of the doubt with my grades. My first interview was with a partner who went to Northwestern, and he looked at my median-ish grades and said "your grades, nothing out of the park, but these are solid, respectable grades from a respected school." I feel like I got the check mark in the grades category, and later got a paid offer for 1L summer.

So far so good, but another question out there is whether I would have had the same respected grades from DU, because I would have been in the top 25% had I attended... dunno.

Good luck. FWIW I think you have a good thing with Mizzou. Rankings try to show reputation, but reputation/prestige are a function of community. Mizzou is a peer school with state school "T1s" like CU/UGA no matter where Mizzou is ranked. Good school for Missouri. Only issue is that there is a big brother in the same state, and depending on how many WUSTLi-ans stay in-state, you could have a lesser version of the Vandy/UTK situation.




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