Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Michigan or NYU?

Michigan ($45,000)
33
36%
NYU (sticker)
13
14%
Columbia (sticker)
46
50%
 
Total votes: 92

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erikjc
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby erikjc » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:46 pm

Guchster wrote:

I go to CLS. There is no difference between NYU/CLS for big law--at least anywhere in the United States. What you can get with one, you can certainly get with the other.

There is a much bigger difference though between NYU/CLS versus Michigan. Not overwhelming, but definitely substantial. I don't know stats off the top of my head (and too lazy to look), but if you want biglaw at NYUCLS, come and get it. Not the case at Michigan yet. It's up to you if this risk is $50k worth


Can I ask why you chose CLS? I think I'm leaning that way, but today's ASW at NYU swayed me a little bit. That might be because I didn't go to Columbia's ASW, though.

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Guchster
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby Guchster » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:48 pm

erikjc wrote:
Guchster wrote:

I go to CLS. There is no difference between NYU/CLS for big law--at least anywhere in the United States. What you can get with one, you can certainly get with the other.

There is a much bigger difference though between NYU/CLS versus Michigan. Not overwhelming, but definitely substantial. I don't know stats off the top of my head (and too lazy to look), but if you want biglaw at NYUCLS, come and get it. Not the case at Michigan yet. It's up to you if this risk is $50k worth


Can I ask why you chose CLS? I think I'm leaning that way, but today's ASW at NYU swayed me a little bit. That might be because I didn't go to Columbia's ASW, though.


Cuz they gave me slightly more money.

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erikjc
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby erikjc » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:49 pm

Guchster wrote:
erikjc wrote:
Guchster wrote:

I go to CLS. There is no difference between NYU/CLS for big law--at least anywhere in the United States. What you can get with one, you can certainly get with the other.

There is a much bigger difference though between NYU/CLS versus Michigan. Not overwhelming, but definitely substantial. I don't know stats off the top of my head (and too lazy to look), but if you want biglaw at NYUCLS, come and get it. Not the case at Michigan yet. It's up to you if this risk is $50k worth


Can I ask why you chose CLS? I think I'm leaning that way, but today's ASW at NYU swayed me a little bit. That might be because I didn't go to Columbia's ASW, though.


Cuz they gave me slightly more money.


Ah, that'll do it. Columbia's fin aid office overlooked my tax returns when I sent them in last week, so my award will be delayed. I'm not expecting much of anything, but it's not too hard to beat NYU's award (zip).

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Guchster
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby Guchster » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:52 pm

yeah that was my situation. CLS hardly gave me much, but it was slightly more than NYU (which was zip).

it's the same damn school. the slight difference is that NYU, as a campus, is sprawled along the west village and Columbia, as a campus, is contained more in a bubble type of community.

Some people like that sense of belonging to a community, some prefer to blend in. I don't think it's that important, though. This only pertains to your classes. You can live wherever the hell you want. NYC transit if friggin awesome.

I know NYU people who live here in morningside heights, and i know CLS people who live in the village.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:00 pm

erikjc wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:I wouldn't expect to go to California from any of these schools if you don't have any connection to the west coast. It's possible, but won't be easy. What's next on your list of preferences?

I do not understand the poll, which seems to indicate that people believe Columbia is worth more than $45,000 more than Michigan while NYU is not. That, basically, makes no sense.


NYC is next on the list, and could move to the top anyway, so that's not a big deal. And people must see some advantage that Columbia has over NYU, that's what I'm trying to figure out. The rankings would suggest that there's something, but since they're so close I don't think it can be that much, especially if you want a firm job in NYC. That's what I'm starting to think, anyway. Are there any placement statistics that show an advantage either way?

The only thing is that NLJ numbers have typically pegged CLS as placing a bit higher in firms. I think it's almost entirely noise in the data/public interest self-selection at NYU. The "PI self-selection" response is often ridiculed as NYU apologia and I dunno, maybe it is, but I still believe it. Going to NYU and having friends at a number of other T14 schools, I truly think the proportion of people who are genuinely dedicated to public interest from the start is higher at NYU. FWIW the schools reported identical percentages of 2Ls at last year's (Fall 2010) OCI who received a job offer. So, there's that fact, whatever the value of it.

The poll results are probably because anonymous TLS 0Ls have a hard-on for Columbia. Also, given a choice between the two schools in a vacuum with no additional information, I suppose you might as well pick CLS since it's the higher ranked one, will impress a few more people in bars, etc. But throw in any scholarship differences, personal preferences between them, etc., and those should be the determinative factors.

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Guchster
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby Guchster » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:04 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
erikjc wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:I wouldn't expect to go to California from any of these schools if you don't have any connection to the west coast. It's possible, but won't be easy. What's next on your list of preferences?

I do not understand the poll, which seems to indicate that people believe Columbia is worth more than $45,000 more than Michigan while NYU is not. That, basically, makes no sense.


NYC is next on the list, and could move to the top anyway, so that's not a big deal. And people must see some advantage that Columbia has over NYU, that's what I'm trying to figure out. The rankings would suggest that there's something, but since they're so close I don't think it can be that much, especially if you want a firm job in NYC. That's what I'm starting to think, anyway. Are there any placement statistics that show an advantage either way?

The only thing is that NLJ numbers have typically pegged CLS as placing a bit higher in firms. I think it's almost entirely noise in the data/public interest self-selection at NYU. The "PI self-selection" response is often ridiculed as NYU apologia and I dunno, maybe it is, but I still believe it. Going to NYU and having friends at a number of other T14 schools, I truly think the proportion of people who are genuinely dedicated to public interest from the start is higher at NYU. FWIW the schools reported identical percentages of 2Ls at last year's (Fall 2010) OCI who received a job offer. So, there's that fact, whatever the value of it.

The poll results are probably because anonymous TLS 0Ls have a hard-on for Columbia. Also, given a choice between the two schools in a vacuum with no additional information, I suppose you might as well pick CLS since it's the higher ranked one. But throw in any scholarship differences, personal preferences between them, etc., and those should be the determinative factors.


I think people always forget this. CLS may place more people in big law, but that's because more people here want to do it in the first place. I feel like the schools' reputations are more a result of self-selection than their actual ability to place in biglaw/PI better than the other.

One note, while both schools have mega placement power into PI, I do feel like NYU makes it slightly easier to do it. Their 1L summer PI funding is a few thousand more than ours, and when I was considering schools, I remember their LRAP being more forgiving. That said, any PI opp you would've gotten out of NYU, you'll get out of CLS

chasgoose
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby chasgoose » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:43 pm

Between CLS and NYU go with the one you like best. CLS/NYU are probably worth about $25-50k more than Michigan in terms of opportunity and how much you would rather be in NYC than Ann Arbor. Between CLS and NYU, however, there is almost no difference. Firms see them as basically the same and PI is slightly easier to get from NYU (only because the infrastructure is stronger and makes things a lot easier for you than the equivalent at CLS. You can get PI just as easily at CLS, but you have to do a lot more of the legwork yourself I think). If you like NYU more and neither are giving you any money, you should go there. If you like CLS more, then go there (and liking it because its an Ivy League school or whatever is a legitimate reason if that floats your boat). But don't listen to the stupid 0L's who think that the difference in rankings means that much. The one spot distance between CLS and Harvard on the rankings is a lot more drastic than the two spot difference between CLS and NYU...

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smokeylarue
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Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby smokeylarue » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:34 am

The NLJ250 numbers of the last few years have consistently shown Columbia with about a 5-10% advantage over NYU I think. Whether those numbers are accurate I have no idea, but they are there. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179039)

That said, the difference is probably very small if any.

chasgoose
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Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Michigan ($$) vs. Columbia vs. NYU

Postby chasgoose » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:27 pm

smokeylarue wrote:The NLJ250 numbers of the last few years have consistently shown Columbia with about a 5-10% advantage over NYU I think. Whether those numbers are accurate I have no idea, but they are there. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179039)

That said, the difference is probably very small if any.


Yeah that can mostly be accounted for by the difference in PI people at both. NYU sends about 5-10% more of its students into PI each year. The more relevant rubric for comparison would be the percent of 2L's who participated in EIW/EIP who did not get any offers, since that would show the likelihood of not getting a job ONLY among those who tried to get them. For the class of 2012, I think about 20% of the participants at both CLS/NYU got no-offered and the other 80% got at least one offer somewhere.




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