Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Cardozo (28k/year scholly, 132k debt)
17
39%
Brooklyn (40k/year scholly, 96k debt)
26
59%
Seton Hall (35k/year scholly, 99k debt)
1
2%
 
Total votes: 44

rad lulz
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:40 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby JusticeHarlan » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:46 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:
JuniorMint wrote:I know what there is to know - every stat and probability concerning each of these schools has already been thrown at me.

If you're fully informed, why create the thread? It seems harsh to ask for advice, then complain when you don't like the advice, and respond by saying you don't need advice.

Look, to move this out of the name-calling realm, why don't you do the stats and probabilities on here? Figure out what percentage chance you have at each of these schools to get the work you're looking for. You have the information, why not post it and show rad he's wrong?


I don't think you could realistically do this for any school, let alone these schools.

If you're making life-altering decisions based solely upon your perceptions of faulty (at best) statistics, you probably shouldn't go to law school.

So then you agree with Rad that OP shouldn't attend these schools?

TLSwag
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby TLSwag » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:52 pm

rad lulz wrote:
TLSwag wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
TLSwag wrote:
Why don't u do some more research on that NLJ250 report you love to cite? c/o 2010 - Cardozo placed 12.6% (ranked 34th) and c/o 2011 placed 11.84% (ranked 27th).... 2009 was at 20.1% (30th).

GOD DAMN 2010 WHAT A FUCKING YEAR

Thought neither made the list in 2011; whoops.

However, I'm not sure it changes the broader point that big law chances are slim.


You are 100% correct, the chances are clearly slim. Data supports this. But the point of this is that OP was aware of these slim chances at Big Law and was seeking advice for the best option of these 3 schools....OP was not asking if she should choose one or abandon her ambitions of law school, if she was then yes maybe you would have actually contributed something worthwhile to the thread.

Just read the topic from now on man, that's all i'm saying. if you aren't going to add anything to advise the OP, then don't post anything

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Nelson
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby Nelson » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:54 pm

TLSwag wrote:You are 100% correct, the chances are clearly slim. Data supports this. But the point of this is that OP was aware of these slim chances at Big Law and was seeking advice for the best option of these 3 schools....OP was not asking if she should choose one or abandon her ambitions of law school, if she was then yes maybe you would have actually contributed something worthwhile to the thread.

Just read the topic from now on man, that's all i'm saying. if you aren't going to add anything to advise the OP, then don't post anything

This is missing the point entirely.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:59 pm

Nelson wrote:
TLSwag wrote:You are 100% correct, the chances are clearly slim. Data supports this. But the point of this is that OP was aware of these slim chances at Big Law and was seeking advice for the best option of these 3 schools....OP was not asking if she should choose one or abandon her ambitions of law school, if she was then yes maybe you would have actually contributed something worthwhile to the thread.

Just read the topic from now on man, that's all i'm saying. if you aren't going to add anything to advise the OP, then don't post anything

This is missing the point entirely.


No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

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MTBike
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:00 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:
TLSwag wrote:You are 100% correct, the chances are clearly slim. Data supports this. But the point of this is that OP was aware of these slim chances at Big Law and was seeking advice for the best option of these 3 schools....OP was not asking if she should choose one or abandon her ambitions of law school, if she was then yes maybe you would have actually contributed something worthwhile to the thread.

Just read the topic from now on man, that's all i'm saying. if you aren't going to add anything to advise the OP, then don't post anything

This is missing the point entirely.


No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.


+1

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stillwater
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby stillwater » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:16 pm

MTBike wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:
TLSwag wrote:You are 100% correct, the chances are clearly slim. Data supports this. But the point of this is that OP was aware of these slim chances at Big Law and was seeking advice for the best option of these 3 schools....OP was not asking if she should choose one or abandon her ambitions of law school, if she was then yes maybe you would have actually contributed something worthwhile to the thread.

Just read the topic from now on man, that's all i'm saying. if you aren't going to add anything to advise the OP, then don't post anything

This is missing the point entirely.


No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.


+1


Decisions aren't made in a vacuum though. This isn't some theoretical exercise where the conditions are neatly controlled, this is real life and unfortunately means that there is context to the choice between these three schools. It would be criminal and unwise to ignore that.

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Nelson
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby Nelson » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:27 pm

iceicebaby wrote:No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

Pretending as though these are the only law schools on the planet doesn't make them better schools.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:30 pm

stillwater wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:This is missing the point entirely.


No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.




Decisions aren't made in a vacuum though. This isn't some theoretical exercise where the conditions are neatly controlled, this is real life and unfortunately means that there is context to the choice between these three schools. It would be criminal and unwise to ignore that.


I agree. Which is why speculating about the outcome of attending these schools is an exercise in mental masturbation. Ask the graduates of the classes of 2008-2010 if they expected the legal market to plummet like it did while they were in law school. You're right, this isn't a vacuum. There are hundreds of scenarios that could happen for the OP going to these schools over the course of her career, but it is her job to determine the outcome, not ours. It's not life or death here, but simply being very comfortable vs. relatively comfortable over the course of a lifetime.

Nelson wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

Pretending as though these are the only law schools on the planet doesn't make them better schools.


No one is saying they are. In fact, I think we all agreed on that point. OP's choices are limited for whatever reasons she has... we don't really set the parameters here.

rad lulz
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:32 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nelson
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby Nelson » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:35 pm

iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

Pretending as though these are the only law schools on the planet doesn't make them better schools.


No one is saying they are. In fact, I think we all agreed on that point. OP's choices are limited for whatever reasons she has... we don't really set the parameters here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo

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iceicebaby
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:39 pm

Nelson wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

Pretending as though these are the only law schools on the planet doesn't make them better schools.


No one is saying they are. In fact, I think we all agreed on that point. OP's choices are limited for whatever reasons she has... we don't really set the parameters here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHWjlCaIrQo


LOL at you equating lawl school to nuclear war. Pretty sure this isn't apples to apples...

rad lulz
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:43 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:45 pm

rad lulz wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

Pretending as though these are the only law schools on the planet doesn't make them better schools.


No one is saying they are. In fact, I think we all agreed on that point. OP's choices are limited for whatever reasons she has... we don't really set the parameters here.

Not going to law school is always an option and to pretent otherwise is lunacy.


Agreed. No one here is pretending. We each deal with the cards we've been dealt differently.

Enough, I'm getting off-topic. Sorry. I still say Brooklyn is the best choice of these three.
Last edited by iceicebaby on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sd5289
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby sd5289 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:45 pm

To the OP: have you tried bouncing Cardozo and Brooklyn off each other? They're well aware that prospective students treat them as peer schools, and a $13K difference (if this is yearly, then $39K overall) is substantial. There's no question that both schools would be willing to go up in order to convince you to pick them over the other.

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iceicebaby
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby iceicebaby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:49 pm

sd5289 wrote:To the OP: have you tried bouncing Cardozo and Brooklyn off each other? They're well aware that prospective students treat them as peer schools, and a $13K difference (if this is yearly, then $39K overall) is substantial. There's no question that both schools would be willing to go up in order to convince you to pick them over the other.


Good point... OP should try this. If it works, then go to 'Dozo... but the OP better get on this ASAP.

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flem
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby flem » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:52 pm

sd5289 wrote:To the OP: have you tried bouncing Cardozo and Brooklyn off each other? They're well aware that prospective students treat them as peer schools, and a $13K difference (if this is yearly, then $39K overall) is substantial. There's no question that both schools would be willing to go up in order to convince you to pick them over the other.


If you're dead set on going to one of these places, try and get Dozo to up their offer this way. Coming out of Dozo with 70Kish of debt is very manageable.

Dozo gives the "best" employment prospects of the three. But not at that price.

TLSwag
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby TLSwag » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:50 pm

rad lulz wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:
Nelson wrote:
iceicebaby wrote:No, it's not. OP didn't ask to be dissuaded from going to law school, but merely presented her options and we are to help her choose between the three listed. TLSwag is 100% correct here.

Pretending as though these are the only law schools on the planet doesn't make them better schools.


No one is saying they are. In fact, I think we all agreed on that point. OP's choices are limited for whatever reasons she has... we don't really set the parameters here.

Not going to law school is always an option and to pretent otherwise is lunacy.


You are right that is an option. Maybe it's what you should have done since your obviously so bitter about the process that you feel compelled to rant on this website all day. Once again, that is why I say to read the first post of a topic before you decide to contribute or not. OP clearly indicated she IS going to law school (i.e. abandoning law school is NOT an option for her) and needs to pay a deposit at one of these 3 schools. Wanted advice on the differences between these 3 schools, and advice on that only.

Out of curiosity, why didn't u retake and reapply rad_lulz? I mean sure Vandy is a great law school, don't get me wrong. Better then anywhere I have been accepted. But even if you got scholarship there, why didn't u retake/reapply for T14 $$? I mean Vandy only placed 22% to NLJ250, seems risky by your presumptions, no???

JuniorMint
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby JuniorMint » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:31 pm

Sorry I haven't weighed in in a while - I was at work.

First, I should clarify the exact question I am asking. I want to know which of the three schools I have listed, relative to each other, will provide the greatest opportunity for the respective price. In particular, I am wondering if the 36k difference between Brooklyn and Cardozo (which just became a difference of 18k this afternoon when Cardozo notified me of a 6k/year increase) justifies the slightly better job prospects that Cardozo may offer. I am also looking for exactly the kind of input iceicebaby was giving. When all my options "equally suck," according to the majority of you, small things like the ones he suggested become more important. I got into William and Mary with a 12k scholly, and guess what? When I visited, I couldn't picture myself there, no matter what the job prospects are. Same goes for Washington & Lee. The environment I'll be in matters tremendously to me, especially when all things are approximately equal.

To say that I am ignoring the existence of other law schools is just ridiculous; it's simply a fact that I can only consider the schools that I was accepted to at this time. I need to make a deposit. I can only consider other schools if I sit out and retake, but I am not willing to do so based on my personal situation. And I think I should remind everyone that sitting out and retaking is also a gamble. If I don't improve significantly on my LSAT, I'll have wasted a year and be looking at the same prospects. You may think I'm just being stubborn, but the truuth is that I've taken the time to weigh my options carefully. I am also not ignoring advice which I "asked for." When I ask "Which one of these is my best option?" and someone answers with "These suck," I haven't come any closer to making a decision, regardless of how true that statement is. Facts are fine, but if you're trying to rub my face in them to convince me not to go, your efforts are pointless.

Listen, it could be way worse. I could be paying sticker at these schools or any number of TTTs and TTTTs. This situation is not hopeless, even if statistics say life might be difficult for me for a while if I choose this path. So please, if you have anything relevant to say concerning my specific inquiry, positive or negative, feel free to share. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time commenting on a thread you shouldn't even care about.

JuniorMint
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby JuniorMint » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:43 pm

One more thing - sd5289 and tflem, you're dead on, of course. I started with offers of 29k/year at Brooklyn and 18k/year at Cardozo and bounced them off of each other until I ended up with 40k/year at Brooklyn and 34k/year at Cardozo.

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dingbat
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:08 pm

JuniorMint wrote:One more thing - sd5289 and tflem, you're dead on, of course. I started with offers of 29k/year at Brooklyn and 18k/year at Cardozo and bounced them off of each other until I ended up with 40k/year at Brooklyn and 34k/year at Cardozo.

You've had a productive day. Not many people are able to say that a single day made a difference of (up to) $48k (Cardozo increase times three years and I'm not even counting interest)

TLSwag
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby TLSwag » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:53 pm

As a side note (to dingbat or anyone else interested)... I have also found both Dozo & Brooklyn to be extremely receptive to scholarship negotiation. I went up from $25K/year to almost full at Dozo and from $32.5/year to exactly Full at Brooklyn
Last edited by TLSwag on Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby dingbat » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:02 pm

TLSwag wrote:As a side note (to dingbat and anyone else interested)... I have also found both Dozo & Brooklyn to be extremely receptive to scholarship negotiation. I went up from $25K/year to almost full at Dozo and from $32.5/year to exactly Full at Brooklyn

Thanks but no. I didn't apply to Brooklyn and only to Dozo due to a fee waiver. I was offered a full scholly from the start, but turned them down.
I appreciate the sentiment, though.

DTDT
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby DTDT » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:04 am

It is hard to keep track of all the extra scholarship money you received in 1 day from 2 schools. SH have significantly less COL than the NYC schools for you?

You must have decent stats if the schools are bending over backwards for you. Rad Lulz is actually tyring to help you saying you are selling yourself short. There are forum members posting on here that have made a similar decision as you will undoubtedly make and are now justifying that decision.

Which advice should you be critical of?

Did you get rejected at Fordham?

I would say more, but for personal reasons, I will not.

bartleby
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Re: Dozo (28k) vs. Brooklyn (40k) vs. Seton Hall (35k)

Postby bartleby » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:14 am

to answer your Q straight up - go to BK if you must go




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