ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where to go? (financial data in post)

Notre Dame
5
19%
William and Mary
6
22%
Temple
16
59%
 
Total votes: 27

ljm9020
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ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby ljm9020 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:48 pm

COA comes out to:

Notre Dame: 62k
William and Mary: 44k
Temple: 27k

Edit: It's annual COA including tuition, books, living, etc.

Here's my situation: I am from Philadelphia and love the city. I know Temple Law is VERY strong in Philadelphia, and I'd love to live there, but with the type of work I'd like to do in the federal government and with constitutional law, I feel that the other schools might have better connections in DC and stronger programs in con law. I have not visited ND yet but W&M definitely felt stronger in those areas than Temple. I also do not want to miss out on two top 30 schools and regret it later. Debt is a serious consideration, but I want to look at the whole picture. I think I could do well in big law but it's not really where I want to end up.

I applied late to ND and I think this may be one of the reasons I wasn't offered any merit $. I am going to ask them if there is anything they can do to make the COA similar to what W&M is offering. I'll report back when I hear. But as things are now, what's your opinion on this situation? I'm adding a poll, but I want to know what you think as far as my concerns as well.

I have about 30k in savings. So in debt considerations, drop 30 off the top.

Thanks!
Last edited by ljm9020 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

wolverine10
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby wolverine10 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:50 pm

I am not sure if you math is off but 62K for 3 years at sticker at ND doesn't seem right

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Bronck
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby Bronck » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:55 pm

wolverine10 wrote:I am not sure if you math is off but 62K for 3 years at sticker at ND doesn't seem right


This.

None of the schools give you a very good shot at DC. Because you have ties to Philly, going to Temple seems like the most rational decision.

There is no such thing as a "top 30" school. Each school you listed is regional.

ljm9020
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby ljm9020 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:04 pm

Fixed COA. By Total COA I meant annual total for tuition, living expenses, books and supplies.

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Bronck
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby Bronck » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:08 pm

Yikes, ND at 180k+ debt and WM at 130k+ debt are not good ideas at all. I'd be a bit apprehensive about Temple @ 81k, but it's clearly the better option here.

wolverine10
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby wolverine10 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:08 pm

So its 186k for ND, 132k for W&M and 81K for Temple.

I guess of those 3 Temple. You are from there, you have ties. For those prices ND is scary and so is W&M

ljm9020
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby ljm9020 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:15 pm

wolverine10 wrote:So its 186k for ND, 132k for W&M and 81K for Temple.

I guess of those 3 Temple. You are from there, you have ties. For those prices ND is scary and so is W&M


Thanks for the input. Realizing now how much was missing from the original post. With my savings it's about 155k for ND, 101 for W&M, 50 for Temple.

wolverine10
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby wolverine10 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:20 pm

Yea but still thats a lot of debt plus 30k of your own money sunk in. If you go to ND or W&M and you don't do as well or you stubble to find a job then what?

ljm9020
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby ljm9020 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:26 pm

Perhaps this is naive, but I am very confident in my abilities as a student in general and a law student in particular. I seem to come out in the top 10% of my class wherever I go, whether a very selective high school or a competitive UG program. I work hard, I'm smart, and I write and speak well. I also tend to do better the more challenging my competition/the environment I am surrounded with.

If I don't finish in the top 20% of any of the schools listed I would be surprised and disappointed.

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Bronck
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby Bronck » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:27 pm

ljm9020 wrote:Perhaps this is naive, but I am very confident in my abilities as a student in general and a law student in particular. I seem to come out in the top 10% of my class wherever I go, whether a very selective high school or a competitive UG program. I work hard, I'm smart, and I write and speak well. I also tend to do better the more challenging my competition/the environment I am surrounded with.

If I don't finish in the top 20% of any of the schools listed I would be surprised and disappointed.

wolverine10
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby wolverine10 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:34 pm

You can;t go to school with that attitude. I think I'm very smart and would end up near the top of my class where I go but you can't take out 150k in loans if you'd only be happy if you were top 10%. That is just a terrible gamble

HeavenWood
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Temple isn't bad if you're open to the idea of working in a small Philly firm or a non-preftigiouf local government job.

elm84dr
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby elm84dr » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:21 pm

Bronck wrote:
ljm9020 wrote:Perhaps this is naive, but I am very confident in my abilities as a student in general and a law student in particular. I seem to come out in the top 10% of my class wherever I go, whether a very selective high school or a competitive UG program. I work hard, I'm smart, and I write and speak well. I also tend to do better the more challenging my competition/the environment I am surrounded with.

If I don't finish in the top 20% of any of the schools listed I would be surprised and disappointed.


Credited.

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arvcondor
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby arvcondor » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:23 am

HeavenWood wrote:Temple isn't bad if you're open to the idea of working in a small Philly firm or a non-preftigiouf local government job.

Eh, this isn't entirely untrue, but it's a bit of an overstatement.

OP, as above posters said, don't bank on top 10%. These past two semesters have been incredibly humbling.

HeavenWood
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:33 am

arvcondor wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Temple isn't bad if you're open to the idea of working in a small Philly firm or a non-preftigiouf local government job.

Eh, this isn't entirely untrue, but it's a bit of an overstatement.

OP, as above posters said, don't bank on top 10%. These past two semesters have been incredibly humbling.

How's it an overstatement? If you're outside the top 10%, those are the types of legal jobs you're likely going to get--that is, if you do end up with a legal job.

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arvcondor
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby arvcondor » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:43 am

Confining it to top 10% is why it's an overstatement.

HeavenWood
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:54 am

arvcondor wrote:Confining it to top 10% is why it's an overstatement.

I see, I was being too optimistic.

In any event, I don't think in-state plus 12.5k is a bad way to play the odds

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arvcondor
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby arvcondor » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:05 am

People on these forums have a strange fetish with the metric system.

rad lulz
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:12 am

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:25 am

Temple.

eaxjunk
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby eaxjunk » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:13 pm

HeavenWood wrote:Temple isn't bad if you're open to the idea of working in a small Philly firm or a non-preftigiouf local government job.


Not exactly true. I live in Philadelphia and know probably 3 people off the top of my head who went into personal injury and started with a six figure salary (within the last year). Maybe these are what you're calling "small firms," but there is still money to be made with a degree from Temple. It holds a lot of value in Philly and is actually one of the reasons I'm considering attending there over any other school in the region.. short of Penn which is a reach for me.

Sirius
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby Sirius » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:19 pm

W&M 1L here --> Stay far far away if you want 1. A job 2. A competent admin 3. enjoy your life

HeavenWood
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:19 pm

eaxjunk wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:Temple isn't bad if you're open to the idea of working in a small Philly firm or a non-preftigiouf local government job.


Not exactly true. I live in Philadelphia and know probably 3 people off the top of my head who went into personal injury and started with a six figure salary (within the last year). Maybe these are what you're calling "small firms," but there is still money to be made with a degree from Temple. It holds a lot of value in Philly and is actually one of the reasons I'm considering attending there over any other school in the region.. short of Penn which is a reach for me.

You know three people, all of whom were probably at the top of their class, or else had preexisting connections. I'm not saying top jobs are strictly impossible to snag from Temple, but it really is an uphill battle in this economy. Philly is a smaller secondary market that is just really beginning to recover from the recession. You can still justifiably go to Temple, just go for cheap and be aware that only ten percent of the class can be in the top ten percent.

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arvcondor
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby arvcondor » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:23 pm

^^Once again, I'm not sure why "10%" is the magic number you've chosen for fame and fortune.

HeavenWood
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Re: ND (sticker) vs. W&M (8k) vs. Temple (In-state + 12.5k)

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:28 pm

arvcondor wrote:^^Once again, I'm not sure why "10%" is the magic number you've chosen for fame and fortune.

Because broheim, if about 5% of the class is currently getting biglawl, after accounting for self-selection into other fields, along with the occasional aspie or two who will strike out of OCI regardless of grades, it's around the 10% mark that should put you in the running, maybe a bit further back from there if you're a URM and/or have an exceptionally good resume/softs. This lines up with the employment statistics I've seen along with anecdotes from friends who go there.




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