Do not attend TJSL

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rad lulz
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:11 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tom Joad
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:13 am

I think people are a little off assuming that all TTT students are complete idiots. The very few that I know are very capable college grads who just made uninformed decisions or thought they were special snowflakes. That might be a dumb decision, but people are socially conditioned to believe that more education always increases earnings potential. Even worse, lots of otherwise smart people will chase TTT preftige. That is why I feel even more strongly that Congress needs to step in, because lots of TTTs are transforming otherwise capable workers into underemployed debt slaves. Them not living up to their economic potential hurts everybody (not even counting when they don't pay their loans).

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lawl Shcool » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:15 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I guess I actually don't know anyone who attends these schools. I know some fairly dumb people who go to OU and DU Law, T2s... That could be a bad sign I suppose.

I guess there are a few questionables at my school but not because they are dumb. I've honestly been really impressed with the caliber of students here, so I assumed things wouldn't be much different further on down the road, so to speak..


This is baffling, if you have no personal connection to it (or any other lower tiered school) why are you spending your free time bashing it?

The second part of your post is spot on, while at TJSL I was also impressed with the caliber of students I was in class with.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:16 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Same question as I asked the other account: do you work in the admissions office of TJSL?


I do not. I attended TJSL 1L year and it was honestly one of the best experiences of my entire life. It drives me nuts to see people blindly bashing a school they have no connection or experience with. I transferred out because I had the opportunity to attend a t10 school, a decision that was encouraged by TJSL when I told them about it. It isn't a knock on TJ that I left, I would have been happy to stay and graduate if I didn't have the t10 offer. As I have stated in other threads, the professors at TJSL are easily on par, or better, than professors I have had during 2L and 3L. The students near the top of the class at TJ, could easily compete for top grades at any school. The blind hatred for the school isn't warranted, especially by people who have never been there or have any connection to it.


So... you transferred. This is what you said in the other thread:

Lawl Shcool wrote:
If we are going to compare irrelevant anecdotes, I can offer one up too. I went to TJSL and now I have a big law job.



Too bad you don't work for the admissions office. You would be great at the job.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lawl Shcool » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:17 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
So... you transferred. This is what you said in the other thread:



Why does that matter?

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:18 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I guess I actually don't know anyone who attends these schools. I know some fairly dumb people who go to OU and DU Law, T2s... That could be a bad sign I suppose.

I guess there are a few questionables at my school but not because they are dumb. I've honestly been really impressed with the caliber of students here, so I assumed things wouldn't be much different further on down the road, so to speak..


This is baffling, if you have no personal connection to it (or any other lower tiered school) why are you spending your free time bashing it?



What is baffling everyone else is that you do not understand that the below is why I am bashing TJSL.

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:For c/o 2010, only 31% were full time attorneys nine months out.
Of that, obviously a smaller percentage were in the private sector.
Factoring in the percent in full time JD required jobs who reported a private sector salary (16%), we find that only EIGHT graduates (out of 221) are represented by TJSL salary quartiles of 45k/65k/75k.
This means that only FOUR students in the class of 2010 made more than 65k, the "median salary."

4 divided by 221 =.018. The "median" salary that TJSL published is represented by 1.8% of the class.

93% borrowed money to finance their education, with the average indebtedness at $153,000.

EDIT: just looked at bar passage rate. 33% for first time, 13% for returning test takers.

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/01/thomas-j ... of-stupid/

flcath
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby flcath » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:18 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:I guess I actually don't know anyone who attends these schools. I know some fairly dumb people who go to OU and DU Law, T2s... That could be a bad sign I suppose.

I guess there are a few questionables at my school but not because they are dumb. I've honestly been really impressed with the caliber of students here, so I assumed things wouldn't be much different further on down the road, so to speak..

Yeah man. NO ONE (okay, if we're gonna be real, maybe ~5% of kids) who goes to these schools is capable of critically examining this stuff.

And, to be fair to them, it's not even all *that* terrible of a decision since their opportunity costs are so low. A 2.4/147 kid (yes, someone with below average k intelligence, who also has a work ethic that gets him a 2.4 in poli sci from StateU) essentially can't get a 'college' job.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:19 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
So... you transferred. This is what you said in the other thread:



Why does that matter?


Are you trying to be hopeless?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:21 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
So... you transferred. This is what you said in the other thread:



Why does that matter?


Are you trying to be hopeless?


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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lawl Shcool » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:23 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
So... you transferred. This is what you said in the other thread:



Why does that matter?


Are you trying to be hopeless?


What? I explained why I transferred already, you wouldn't meet anyone who would have passed up the opportunity to make that big of a jump, including the TJSL administration. If it was such a scam don't you think they would have made something up to get me to stay? Rather, they were happy for me and encouraged me to take the opportunity.

You already admitted that you have no connection to the school or any other third or fourth tier school. So, why spend your time spamming TLS with this stuff? What is the personal gain for you?

flcath
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby flcath » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:28 am

Napt wrote:
flcath wrote:
bk1 wrote:
flcath wrote:People on here will defend the existence of TTTs, or that the only reform the ABA accreditation process needs is "more transparency."

Which is nonsensical to someone who's met these people.


I don't think that has to do with the intelligence of the people who attend those schools, more with what people believe should be done about those who make poor decisions even in the face of 100% transparency. I imagine much of TLS believes that people will attend bad schools even in the face of overwhelming data showing it's a bad idea (in fact we see this actually play out all the time on TLS). They are more split on whether something should be done in that case.

rad lulz already hit it, but Sallie Mae is what keeps any type of a "market based" approach to law schools from ever working. You obviously know this from the other 9,732,000 it's been raised on TLS, but it never fails to piss me off when some shit-for-brains pseudo-libertarian talks about how we don't need gov't intervention, while completely ignoring that the "demand" for law school is 90% fake, and wouldn't exist absent free gubmint cash.

How isn't that a good argument for getting the government out of the student loan bizness?

That's a totally viable solution. As far as I'm concerned: you can close 120 schools by gov't fiat, you can raise the accreditation bar so high that 120 schools fail inevitably it, you can cut student loans and let 120 schools fail through market forces, or you can take a can of gasoline and burn down 120 schools.

Each method has it's plusses and minuses, respectively: antitrust concerns and central planning inefficiency; waste expenses on dumb accreditation requirements; transition costs, an adverse impact on students, and a likely anti-minority impact; it's illegal and someone could get hurt. But there's no argument that we should continue to spend taxpayer money giving life-support to 215+ law schools, fucking over a generation of students in the process.
Last edited by flcath on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby 09042014 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:28 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
So... you transferred. This is what you said in the other thread:



Why does that matter?


Are you trying to be hopeless?


What? I explained why I transferred already, you wouldn't meet anyone who would have passed up the opportunity to make that big of a jump, including the TJSL administration. If it was such a scam don't you think they would have made something up to get me to stay? Rather, they were happy for me and encouraged me to take the opportunity.

You already admitted that you have no connection to the school or any other third or fourth tier school. So, why spend your time spamming TLS with this stuff? What is the personal gain for you?


Because you transferred for job opportunities you dumb fuck.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:30 am

Being supportive of your transfer does not totally absolve TJLS. Also I think the other dude's point-not that he is making it very well-is that you transferring is a pretty big statement about the outcomes from TJ.

In regards to some of the other posts, the consensus on this site-which you haven't done a very good job of rebuffing-is that you are an extreme outlier and you are very fortunate to have been able to transfer. If you can confidently say that people around median are getting jobs that allow them to pay back their loans, we will all go away. Your defense has basically been: "hey I transferred so TJLS is not a terrible law school." For the vast majority of students, it is a terrible law school.

ETA: scooped.

071816
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby 071816 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:31 am

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Tom Joad
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Tom Joad » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:32 am

flcath wrote:Each method has it's plusses and minuses, respectively: antitrust concerns and central planning inefficiency; waste expenses on dumb accreditation requirements; transition costs, an adverse impact on students, and a likely anti-minority impact; it's illegal and someone could get hurt. But there's no argument that we should continue to spend taxpayer money giving life-support to 215+ law schools, fucking over a generation of students in the process.

Actually a 2 tiered approach may be the best for society, because demand for certain legal services still exceed supply.

Napt
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Napt » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:32 am

flcath wrote:
Napt wrote:
flcath wrote:rad lulz already hit it, but Sallie Mae is what keeps any type of a "market based" approach to law schools from ever working. You obviously know this from the other 9,732,000 it's been raised on TLS, but it never fails to piss me off when some shit-for-brains pseudo-libertarian talks about how we don't need gov't intervention, while completely ignoring that the "demand" for law school is 90% fake, and wouldn't exist absent free gubmint cash.

How isn't that a good argument for getting the government out of the student loan bizness?

That's a totally viable solution. As far as I'm concerned: you can close 120 schools by gov't fiat, you can raise the accreditation bar so high that 120 schools fail inevitably it, you can cut student loans and let 120 schools fail through market forces, or you can take a can of gasoline and burn down 120 schools.

Each method has it's plusses and minuses, respectively: antitrust concerns and central planning inefficiency; waste expenses on dumb accreditation requirements; transition costs, an adverse impact on students, and a likely anti-minority impact; it's illegal and someone could get hurt. But there's no argument that we should continue to spend taxpayer money giving life-support to 215+ law schools, fucking over a generation of students in the process.

Yea I agree. Still not sure what the "pseudo-libertarian" diss was all about though.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:34 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:

You already admitted that you have no connection to the school or any other third or fourth tier school. So, why spend your time spamming TLS with this stuff?


Spamming? I just posted the info that TJSL provided to NALP. That must be "the stuff," your were referring to.

Lawl Shcool wrote:What is the personal gain for you?


Did you just ask this question? FWIW, I believe people are selfish, but not all people all the time. Uhm... I believe in.. Goodness?

Who are you?

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romothesavior
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:35 am

Lawl Shcool wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Same question as I asked the other account: do you work in the admissions office of TJSL?


I do not. I attended TJSL 1L year and it was honestly one of the best experiences of my entire life. It drives me nuts to see people blindly bashing a school they have no connection or experience with. I transferred out because I had the opportunity to attend a t10 school, a decision that was encouraged by TJSL when I told them about it. It isn't a knock on TJ that I left, I would have been happy to stay and graduate if I didn't have the t10 offer. As I have stated in other threads, the professors at TJSL are easily on par, or better, than professors I have had during 2L and 3L. The students near the top of the class at TJ, could easily compete for top grades at any school. The blind hatred for the school isn't warranted, especially by people who have never been there or have any connection to it.

It is, quite simply, one of the 5-10 worst law schools in the country. It is a festering dump that dupes students with horribly misleading job data and fleeces them for all they can get out of them. Glad your profs were good and the students with the 140s LSAT scores were super smart and it all worked out for you in the end, but the overwhelming majority of students at TJLS are royally screwed. No way around this. Of all the offenders in this law school scam, TJLS is among the worst. It's a dump.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:37 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:What is the personal gain for you?


Did you just ask this question? FWIW, I believe people are selfish, but not all people all the time. Uhm... I believe in.. Goodness?

Who are you?


Lol you didn't have to go this far and endow yourself with some holier-than-thou meaning. Being bored on a Sunday and posting about TJLS is just fine. There is much worse you can do on the internet.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:38 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:Being supportive of your transfer does not totally absolve TJLS. Also I think the other dude's point-not that he is making it very well-is that you transferring is a pretty big statement about the outcomes from TJ.


He never mentioned that he transferred in the other thread, just stated that had gone to TJSL and the he worked in big law. The assumption there is obvious.

I asserted that he would make a fine admissions officer for TJSL because of how misleading he was being.

It was a "had to be there" kinda thing.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:41 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
Lawl Shcool wrote:What is the personal gain for you?


Did you just ask this question? FWIW, I believe people are selfish, but not all people all the time. Uhm... I believe in.. Goodness?

Who are you?


Lol you didn't have to go this far and endow yourself with some holier-than-thou meaning. Being bored on a Sunday and posting about TJLS is just fine. There is much worse you can do on the internet.


Sorry I'm a half-decent person? Gotta remember I was talking to real prospective applicants when this all started, not super douche. I actually didn't want them to attend TJSL. If that makes me "holier-than-thou," I guess I am.

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romothesavior
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:41 am

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Sorry I'm a half-decent person?

You are such a martyr bro, keep up the good work.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:42 am

romothesavior wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Sorry I'm a half-decent person?

You are such a martyr bro, keep up the good work.


Thx.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:43 am

romothesavior wrote:
Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:Sorry I'm a half-decent person?

You are such a martyr bro, keep up the good work.


Im glad my meaning wasn't lost on everyone.

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Lawl Shcool
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Re: Do not attend TJSL

Postby Lawl Shcool » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:44 am

Mal Reynolds wrote:Being supportive of your transfer does not totally absolve TJLS. Also I think the other dude's point-not that he is making it very well-is that you transferring is a pretty big statement about the outcomes from TJ.

In regards to some of the other posts, the consensus on this site-which you haven't done a very good job of rebuffing-is that you are an extreme outlier and you are very fortunate to have been able to transfer. If you can confidently say that people around median are getting jobs that allow them to pay back their loans, we will all go away. Your defense has basically been: "hey I transferred so TJLS is not a terrible law school." For the vast majority of students, it is a terrible law school.

ETA: scooped.


I think this is a pretty good explanation of how this has been going. I def got lucky with the whole thing and my main point is that the school is actually good at schooling its students. All these negative posts paint it like it is a bunch of retards in adult diapers shitting on themselves all day while they struggle to color in between the lines when in reality the in-class experience is very similar to the t10 school I currently attend.

I obviously don't know the loan situations for any of my former classmates but everyone I still stay in contact with has been able to find work both summers and a fair amount have post grad jobs lined up. All of the graduates I know from TJ are working as full time attorneys throughout SoCal, at firms, DA offices, PD offices, and PI orgs. The firms aren't biglaw but to be fair, not many people were even looking to work at big firms because they wanted to do smaller firm type work (family law, criminal, immigration, etc).

I certainly wouldn't be defending the school like I have been if I was seeing my former schoolmates struggling as it is described on TLS.




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