Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Mich $67.5k vs Cornell $120k

Poll ended at Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:53 am

Michigan 67.5k
9
18%
Cornell 120k
40
82%
 
Total votes: 49

muddup
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Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:53 am

Ok, this is basically the last decision I need to make (now that I got Penn out of the way).

Cornell 120k or Mich 67.5k for NYC biglaw?

It would be MUCH appreciated if you could LEAVE A COMMENT. Thank you!

shoeshine
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby shoeshine » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:55 am

Cornell because you want NYC and they are offering more money.

muddup
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:01 am

Ok thanks, I understand the justification for Cornell, but for people who vote Michigan, do you mind sharing what you know? Thanks a ton!

ahnhub
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby ahnhub » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:17 am

I voted Cornell because it's a ton of money and you want NYC Biglaw. The vast majority of TLS is going to vote this way. But from what I've been able to gather, the argument for the other side would be:

1) I heard from a transfer-out that Cornell is just too serious and competitive for some personality types. The curve is harsher, and they have graded Legal Writing and Research in a small class setting--which may mean you find yourself looking around and seeing 20 people you are directly competing with, knowing only a handful will get a good grade.

2) Almost everything I hear about Michigan is directly the opposite--people are very friendly and collaborative, and there isn't a massive sense of stress and competition. Obviously there is still a great deal of competition with very smart people, but it doesn't bubble to the surface. Ann Arbor is also a great college town, and a setting many people find perfect for grad school.

(The previous 2 points are general stereotypes about both schools, which I happened to have confirmed by direct sources. But I'm sure the differences are also somewhat exaggerated)

3) Michigan generally does better with federal clerkships.

4) Because so many people who go to Cornell are nterested in Biglaw and Biglaw only, if your interests changed to something else like PI or government or something more interesting you might be in a better position at Michigan.

I still heartily vote for 120K from Cornell.

muddup
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:33 am

Oh I didn't know about the competitiveness about Cornell, but its not 'nasty' right?

Thanks for the long and insightful input ahnhub!

keg411
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby keg411 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:28 am

muddup wrote:Oh I didn't know about the competitiveness about Cornell, but its not 'nasty' right?

Thanks for the long and insightful input ahnhub!


Sister went to Cornell, I go to Mich. <3 both schools.

From what I've heard about Cornell, people aren't nasty, but there is an "under-the-surface" passive/aggressive competitiveness. But people still like each other and have fun. Also, while people are certainly collaborative at Michigan, it still suffers from the same problem. It's just not in-your-face.

Unless you've visited both and hated Cornell, I'd go to Cornell because of the more $$$$.

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catwomangirl
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby catwomangirl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:43 am

Also, calculate the cost of attending paired with your fancy schollies

I thought Cornell had given me 25,000 dollars more, but I realized that with their higher tuition and living costs, it was nearly the same.

Also, I visited both, and while I was in the building at Cornell it seemed dated and like a somewhat suffocating place to spend the whole day, while being in the buildings at Michigan had a very positive effect on my mood.

woeisme
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:22 am

Cornell because (1) it's cheaper and (2) it has better career prospects (particularly for biglaw, which is what other posters have said you're striving for). Cornell is the obvious choice, IMO.

To address your question about why people have voted Mich, I'd wager that it's either because they are biased and attending Michigan themselves or because they are going purely on USNWR rankings.

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Lincoln
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby Lincoln » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:25 am

woeisme wrote:Cornell because (1) it's cheaper and (2) it has better career prospects (particularly for biglaw, which is what other posters have said you're striving for). Cornell is the obvious choice, IMO.


TITCR

woeisme
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:26 am

muddup wrote:Oh I didn't know about the competitiveness about Cornell, but its not 'nasty' right?


Yeah, this was not my experience. Cornell has a very supportive culture... def not nasty. It's competitive in the sense that students are driven and hard workers, but you'll find that at basically every law school.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:34 am

Compare total COA for each law school. Visit both, then decide. If unable to visit, then Cornell.

muddup
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:28 pm

Ya, Cornell COA = 137k; Michigan = 104k. I only save 33k going to Cornell.

Another concern is, would your vote change at all if I wanted ANY kind of biglaw?--not just NYC? (really I'd be happy with biglaw anywhere)

Thanks!

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catwomangirl
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby catwomangirl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:31 pm

Cornell= Regional Market
If you want to work anywhere other than NYC, it will be really, really difficult.

woeisme
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:40 pm

catwomangirl wrote:Cornell= Regional Market
If you want to work anywhere other than NYC, it will be really, really difficult.


Have you heard this from someone or are you making it up? Either way, this is inaccurate and is horrible advice.

OP, Cornell's big law employment prospects have been better than Mich's in recent years, but Michigan will have the edge in Chicago (assuming no ties). If your goal is just big law in general wherever you can get it, Cornell is prolly your way to go. I'd suggest this even if cost were equal at both.

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catwomangirl
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby catwomangirl » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:42 pm

woeisme wrote:
catwomangirl wrote:Cornell= Regional Market
If you want to work anywhere other than NYC, it will be really, really difficult.


Have you heard this from someone or are you making it up? Either way, this is inaccurate and is horrible advice.

OP, Cornell's big law employment prospects have been better than Mich's in recent years, but Michigan will have the edge in Chicago (assuming no ties). If your goal is just big law in general wherever you can get it, Cornell is prolly your way to go. I'd suggest this even if cost were equal at both.



Told by lead partner at major law firm. I guess, as with everyone's perception, that should be taken with a grain of salt. Could vary from firm to firm etc.

keg411
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby keg411 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:30 pm

muddup wrote:Ya, Cornell COA = 137k; Michigan = 104k. I only save 33k going to Cornell.

Another concern is, would your vote change at all if I wanted ANY kind of biglaw?--not just NYC? (really I'd be happy with biglaw anywhere)

Thanks!


Honestly, just pick the school you like better. The Michigan 2011 numbers are not reflective at all of the Michigan 2013 numbers (at least for SA's) if you're that concerned about BigLaw employment. Cornell is still a NYC BigLaw powerhouse and places just fine in other markets. Michigan's clerkship numbers are better than Cornell's clerkship numbers, but that doesn't seem like it's something that will matter that much for your goals. So just go where you want if the cost isn't that much different.

ahnhub
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby ahnhub » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:37 pm

U should try to get a list of firms which come to OCI at both schools. Michigan has a more diversified alumni base (they send like 30% to Cali and Chicago combined every year) which mIght help you nationally but NYC is generally easier to get and it sounds like your ties are east coast? Most Cornell grads go to NYC, I imagine because most want to.

I think Its very debatable whether Cornell places better into big law. Recent employment #s might point in that direction but they are 2 yrs behind.

And at a 30k difference I myself would pick michigan but I'm biased because I'm a wolverine undergrad. It's a pretty sweet place.

rad lulz
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:47 pm

shoeshine wrote:Cornell because you want NYC and they are offering more money.

muddup
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:02 pm

Ok thanks for all of the input, especially w/r/t the merits of Michigan (I couldn't figure out by myself why people would vote for Mich at all, but now I know)

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johansantana21
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby johansantana21 » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:04 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=182072

Basically biglaw+clerkship numbers added up to 40%. Lower than Cornell has ever placed.

muddup
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby muddup » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:40 pm

johansantana21 wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=182072

Basically biglaw+clerkship numbers added up to 40%. Lower than Cornell has ever placed.


Ya, I tend to think that thread is the nail in the coffin.

ahnhub
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Re: Help again! Mich $$ vs Cornell $$$

Postby ahnhub » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:29 pm

muddup wrote:
johansantana21 wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=182072

Basically biglaw+clerkship numbers added up to 40%. Lower than Cornell has ever placed.


Ya, I tend to think that thread is the nail in the coffin.


That number is probably around 44-45% for Cornell for the same class. Higher, but it's not like it was on some other level.

OP I think it's totally reasonable to take past results into consideration, but it would be a mistake to think Cornell will give you a better shot at Biglaw because c/o 2011 (the bottom of the crash) fared slightly better there than at Michigan. Take Cornell because you like it more or because you want the extra 33K in your pocket.




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