Baylor or Texas Tech Forum

[HookemHooker]

Retaking is not part of my plans. I’m already going to be almost 38 when I graduate if I start this fall. One more year may not seem like that big of a deal when you’re 24, but at my age it matters.
It’s looking like Tech will be the clear choice because A) I heard back from Baylor and they’re offering no money and B) I can start Tech this fall whereas I would have to wait till spring to start at Baylor (in which case I may as well retake and delay till fall 2013).

...it would appear that the student body at Baylor is more talented than the student body at Tech. I think this is a point for Tech, though.

It looks like being in the top 10% at Tech is = to be in the top 20% at Baylor. I would wager a guess that it is about equally as difficult to be in the top 10% at Tech than it is to be in the top 20% at Baylor. Many on TLS seem to disagree on this point.

I would go to Tech if it saved you significant money. Debt and compound interest are soul-crushing.

I was thinking along these lines as well.
Additionally, the general feel I got from the student body and administration at each school when I visited should not be overlooked.

I understand and am even excited about the fact that law school is going to be the most challenging thing I’ve ever done in my life.
(+1 Tech) However, I got the strong impression that the administration at Tech really wants you to succeed, and does everything in its power to help you. This may be in part because they are trying to build their reputation, and need a greater number of successful students to do so.

(+1 Tech) The administration at Baylor reminded me of the Capitol in the Hunger Games. They are completely satisfied to see the tributes (students) fight to the death because they’re not going to look bad if only a few strong students survive with their mental health intact.

(+1 Baylor) On the other hand, a fiercely competitive environment may be where I thrive, and the practice court excites me.
(+1 Tech) Of course I could try to get onto an advocacy team at Tech and be around people who actually want to practice litigation, as opposed to a bunch of people being forced to practice it.

(+1 Tech) Baylor seems to treat their 1Ls like they are fresh out of high school. For example, I was told that most 1L professors don’t allow laptops for note-taking. If you don’t have the self-control to stay off of facebook in class, law school may not be the right place for you.

I want to clarify my career goals. I will probably look at seeking a clerkship, but I’m not going to have unrealistic hopes. I am not dead set on Austin, and I may not have a desire to live there in 3 years when the population has increased to an even more ridiculous level.
I will be overjoyed if I can find a ~60k job at a mid-size firm out of law school doing research and writing, as long as it is not in Lubbock :p
As far as academia, I just meant I would like to get to the point in my career where I can retire and then still teach something like undergrad business law as adjunct prof for fun.

I can't stress enough how much I appreciate everyone's advice here. Thanks again.

I know being 38 or 39 at graduation has an impact on a future legal career, but a very important factor to consider will be how your future debt will impact your lifestyle in your late 30's. It may be easier to pay off debt in your 20's, but that will not be the case for you in your 40's. I have many friends your age who have gone to law school at sticker with the same mind set as you, and it has cost them their marriage and financial well being. Going to school at sticker for your age might be cost prohibitive, unless you have a sugar momma/daddy (sharing is caring) or personal savings. Your goal should be to attend law school for as close to free as you can.

This is why as everyone has suggested, I will recommend that you wait a year and retake the LSAT. You definitely need a scholarship to outweigh the hardship you will face in securing a job out of Baylor or Tech. Law school is much harder than the LSAT. The LSAT is very learnable. You will wish you could take 4 or 5 of those in place of your course finals by the time you are done with law school. If you are unable to take the time to bring up your score, then you might have trouble in law school. <----This was my biggest motivator in improving my score. Good luck to you and feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[b.gump81]

Also, I think the "Baylor = hyper-competitive, pages being ripped out" meme is overplayed by TLS. I am no fan of Baylor law. I do go back to Waco during the football season and I'll occasionally study in the Baylor law library prior to football games. 1. The library is usually a ghost town on Saturdays, even at 10 AM for 6 PM kickoffs. It is certainly more empty than the SMU law library on weekends. 2. From what I can tell, students are either assigned or simply claim individual study desks in the library. They then leave their books out in the open on those desks, including their binders for Practice Court. If the place truly were that competitive and pages were being ripped out, students would not leave their books out in the open like that.

http://www.princetonreview.com/schoolli ... e=r&id=729

No one really thinks they go around ripping pages anymore because no one really even uses books anymore; everyone does all their research on westlaw and lexisnexis. It is just an analogy for backstabbing, as that is largely how it was done when research was exclusively by book. That link provides an objective source, and the information comes from Baylor students themselves.

[nouseforaname123]

http://www.princetonreview.com/schoolli ... e=r&id=729

No one really thinks they go around ripping pages anymore because no one really even uses books anymore; everyone does all their research on westlaw and lexisnexis. It is just an analogy for backstabbing, as that is largely how it was done when research was exclusively by book. That link provides an objective source, and the information comes from Baylor students themselves.

Please post the contents of the link because I don't have an account. Also compare it to BYU, #2.

I get that the ripping pages out of books isn't a literal thing. But like I said, if the school really is hyper-competitive I would expect to see more people in the law library on the weekends. I've studied in there a handful of times and I've never seen more than five people in that library.

And if Baylor students really are backstabbing each other, I highly doubt they would be leaving their course materials and books out in the open like that. Do students at Tech leave their books and materials out in the open at the library? At SMU, we don't.

I don't doubt that they work harder at Baylor, especially because of PC. I also think the quarter system has to suck because it's one additional round of finals each academic year. And I'm sure the stories of professors going hardcore socratic are true.

I'm just not sure any of that translates into students backstabbing and generally being shitty to each other. Perhaps it does, but most Baylor law students on TLS refute those claims. Students can be competitive without being assholes to each other. I don't expect the students at BYU are backstabbing jerks even though they are the second most competitive law school according to PR.

[b.gump81]

http://www.princetonreview.com/schoolli ... e=r&id=729

No one really thinks they go around ripping pages anymore because no one really even uses books anymore; everyone does all their research on westlaw and lexisnexis. It is just an analogy for backstabbing, as that is largely how it was done when research was exclusively by book. That link provides an objective source, and the information comes from Baylor students themselves.

Please post the contents of the link because I don't have an account. Also compare it to BYU, #2.

I get that the ripping pages out of books isn't a literal thing. But like I said, if the school really is hyper-competitive I would expect to see more people in the law library on the weekends. I've studied in there a handful of times and I've never seen more than five people in that library.

And if Baylor students really are backstabbing each other, I highly doubt they would be leaving their course materials and books out in the open like that. Do students at Tech leave their books and materials out in the open at the library? At SMU, we don't.

I don't doubt that they work harder at Baylor, especially because of PC. I also think the quarter system has to suck because it's one additional round of finals each academic year. And I'm sure the stories of professors going hardcore socratic are true.

I'm just not sure any of that translates into students backstabbing and generally being shitty to each other. Perhaps it does, but most Baylor law students on TLS refute those claims. Students can be competitive without being assholes to each other. I don't expect the students at BYU are backstabbing jerks even though they are the second most competitive law school according to PR.

Yeah I definitely agree that competitiveness doesn't equate to backstabbing. But I have just heard from several Baylor students that people won't share notes, outlines, etc like a lot of other schools will. And so putting two and two together (the competitive atmosphere you don't dispute with the anecdotes of unwillingness to help peers) i figured that drove students to a little more backstabbing here and there than at other schools. There is definitely some backstabbing at every school; it is just a rational assumption that there is more of it at the school ranked #1 ranked for competitiveness.

Yes, we do leave out materials and property here at tech law. I've left out my laptop and casebooks in the common area for several hours on multiple occassions, and nothing was stolen. However I wouldn't necessarily say that is a great indicator of how "backstabbing" a student body may be because I think a law student would have to be really hard pressed to risk everything to steal something in the school library. I've been to smu's law library in the summer, and I remember there were a lot of non-students in there. It is also right across the street from a shopping center, so I think that has more to do with the student body not leaving out property more than it does with a fear that fellow students will take something.

Basically, miserable people will often do irrational and mean spirited things. And there is no disputing that Baylor law students are relatively miserable.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

At CU, we leave our laptops out in the open. Who is going to risk a legal career on $1,000 laptop?

I haven't noticed any students participate in "backstabbing" at all, but I have definitely noticed students unwilling to share outlines. I don't think that makes Baylor a bad place, I think it just means it is competitive there.

[nouseforaname123]

There is definitely some backstabbing at every school; it is just a rational assumption that there is more of it at the school ranked #1 ranked for competitiveness.

Perhaps your conclusion is correct. But then look at school #2 on the list. My completely uneducated guess is that there is less backstabbing at a place like BYU than your average school

Yes, we do leave out materials and property here at tech law. I've left out my laptop and casebooks in the common area for several hours on multiple occassions, and nothing was stolen. However I wouldn't necessarily say that is a great indicator of how "backstabbing" a student body may be because I think a law student would have to be really hard pressed to risk everything to steal something in the school library. I've been to smu's law library in the summer, and I remember there were a lot of non-students in there. It is also right across the street from a shopping center, so I think that has more to do with the student body not leaving out property more than it does with a fear that fellow students will take something.

I'm not talking about leaving your stuff out for an hour or two while you go grab a bite to eat. Almost everybody does that at the SMU library.

I may be misinterpreting things, but from the looks of it, at Baylor law, some students will either take or be assigned an open library desk for the entire year. That student will leave books and personal items at that desk, out in the open, for the entire year. Overnight, for the weekend, etc.... Like I said, I might be reading it wrong, I've only been in there a handful of times.

[kalvano]

Really, what else is there to do in Waco but fuck people over?

[b.gump81]

Yes, we do leave out materials and property here at tech law. I've left out my laptop and casebooks in the common area for several hours on multiple occassions, and nothing was stolen. However I wouldn't necessarily say that is a great indicator of how "backstabbing" a student body may be because I think a law student would have to be really hard pressed to risk everything to steal something in the school library. I've been to smu's law library in the summer, and I remember there were a lot of non-students in there. It is also right across the street from a shopping center, so I think that has more to do with the student body not leaving out property more than it does with a fear that fellow students will take something.

I'm not talking about leaving your stuff out for an hour or two while you go grab a bite to eat. Almost everybody does that at the SMU library.

I may be misinterpreting things, but from the looks of it, at Baylor law, some students will either take or be assigned an open library desk for the entire year. That student will leave books and personal items at that desk, out in the open, for the entire year. Overnight, for the weekend, etc.... Like I said, I might be reading it wrong, I've only been in there a handful of times.

Again I'm not talking about theft in the library. No rational law student would risk everything just to steal or mess with another students property. I'm talking about not sharing materials, reporting honor code violations, etc. I think after employment and debt, the atmosphere of the school is the most important consideration for a prospective student. It will be a huge impact on your health and sanity for those three years. And law students are miserable in general; why would anyone want to increase that by going to a notoriously competitive school, especially when they can go to a peer school that has a better atmosphere?

[kalvano]

b.gump, stop saying things I agree with, as it's much easier to just be able to automatically disagree with you.

[nouseforaname123]

Really, what else is there to do in Waco but fuck people over?

RGthreesus played ball there. That's hallowed ground now.

--ImageRemoved--

Again I'm not talking about theft in the library. No rational law student would risk everything just to steal or mess with another students property. I'm talking about not sharing materials, reporting honor code violations, etc.

I understand that. I'm not talking about theft either. But "backstabbing" would include things like messing with other people's shit. If Baylor law were really this petty, hyper-competitive place with lots of backstabbing I wouldn't expect people to leave their personal property out in the open, especially school-related materials. That's why people use the illustrative example of "ripping pages out of books."

There is nothing about "not sharing materials" that constitutes backstabbing. It isn't nice, but it doesn't make one a backstabber. Backstabbing would be intentionally sharing an incorrect outline. Reporting honor code violations to me is the only thing that possibly gets close to backstabbing and even then I am not sure.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say Baylor is not very collegial? But that doesn't necessarily make them a bunch of prickish, backstabbers.

especially when they can go to a peer school that has a better atmosphere

There are very few people not affiliated with TTU that would call BU and TTU peer schools. I know, I know, the placement statistics by job category and state bar website give you enough evidence to suggest they are peer schools, TTU's low reputation score in USNWR means nothing, blah, blah, blah.

[b.gump81]

especially when they can go to a peer school that has a better atmosphere

There are very few people not affiliated with TTU that would call BU and TTU peer schools. I know, I know, the placement statistics by job category and state bar website give you enough evidence to suggest they are peer schools, TTU's low reputation score in USNWR means nothing, blah, blah, blah.

And that is because most people blindly rely on the USNWR rankings, without looking at the other facts and data, such as the ones I provided earlier. "A school ranked 51 could not possibly be a peer school to a school ranked 101. That would be preposterous."

ETA: it is a sad fact that if and when it cracks into TT, tech will receive hundreds of more applications than normal because many applicants are ranking whores

[nouseforaname123]

And that is because most people blindly rely on the USNWR rankings, without looking at the other facts and data, such as the ones I provided earlier. "A school ranked 51 could not possibly be a peer school to a school ranked 101. That would be preposterous."

We've been through this before. Without knowing exact salary data, it is hard to compare the employment statistics (for example, it is hard to compare judicial clerkships without Art III data).

I also don't see it as a slight advantage for biglaw for Baylor. Noting that none of the following statistics are impressive, there is clear separation between Baylor and Tech.

C/o 2010:

Baylor (162 grads): 20 students to firms of 50+; 12% of class
TTU (210 grads): 6 grads to firms of 50+; 3% of class

4 times as likely isn't a "slight advantage." At Baylor, if you land in the top 10%, you should have a fairly decent job lined up (especially with their relatively strong Art. III placement). Can't say the same at Tech.

As LRM keeps pointing out, Baylor's reputation score is significantly better than Tech's.

Finally, the incoming qualifications of the student body are clearly superior at Baylor.

Baylor medians: 3.37-3.88, 159-163
TTU medians: 3.25-3.66, 152-158

The average Baylor student also probably got in at UH/SMU. While there are some students (~25%?) at Tech who also got into SMU/UH/Baylor, the overlap probably isn't nearly as strong given the medians at Tech.

Look, I'm not suggesting Baylor = Harvard, or Tech = Texas Wesleyan. But I don't see how you can call Baylor and Tech peer schools just by using location of practice and generic job categories.

As much as I rag on Baylor law, the truth is that Baylor/UH/SMU are peer schools with the caveat that I think Baylor is the weakest in the bunch. I'm not saying Tech is a festering TTT or anything like that, I just don't see it in the same league as Baylor/UH/SMU.

[b.gump81]

We've been through this before. Without knowing exact salary data, it is hard to compare the employment statistics (for example, it is hard to compare judicial clerkships without Art III data).

I also don't see it as a slight advantage for biglaw for Baylor. Noting that none of the following statistics are impressive, there is clear separation between Baylor and Tech.

C/o 2010:

Baylor (162 grads): 20 students to firms of 50+; 12% of class
TTU (210 grads): 6 grads to firms of 50+; 3% of class

4 times as likely isn't a "slight advantage."

I dont want to really do this again, as finals are fast approaching, but I will say your numbers are off.

Baylor had 17 in firms with 50+ (--LinkRemoved--), which is only 10.4%

Tech had 10 in firms with 50+ (http://www.law.ttu.edu/career/employment_data_2010.asp), which is 4.7%

It isn't a four time advantage, because your numbers were off. Ultimately, it is a difference of 7 students.

Also if you look at the data for 2008 and 2009, the margin is even smaller. For 2009, Baylor had 20 out of 130 (15%). Tech had 18 out of 206 students (8.7%). For 2008, tech was at 17 (7%) and Baylor was at 18 (11.7%).

At Baylor, if you land in the top 10%, you should have a fairly decent job lined up (especially with their relatively strong Art. III placement). Can't say the same at Tech.

I disagree, and so would a lot of people. You can say the same for Texas Tech. Unfortunately, Baylor doesnt break down clerkship type in its data, so for all you know each of them was in a state court. Tech does break them down, but without baylor's numbers it would be kind of pointless to try and compare (hence why I just included a general category for clerkships in my post earlier).

Finally, the incoming qualifications of the student body are clearly superior at Baylor.

Baylor medians: 3.37-3.88, 159-163
TTU medians: 3.25-3.66, 152-158

again, i think this is largely because people dont do their research and think the employment prospects correlate to its ranking.

The average Baylor student also probably got in at UH/SMU. While there are some students (~25%?) at Tech who also got into SMU/UH/Baylor, the overlap probably isn't nearly as strong given the medians at Tech.

I think more tech students turn down these schools than you think. Numbers arent the end all be all. Debt, location, type of employment desired, atmosphere, etc play into peoples' decisions.

Look, I'm not suggesting Baylor = Harvard, or Tech = Texas Wesleyan. But I don't see how you can call Baylor and Tech peer schools just by using location of practice and generic job categories.

As much as I rag on Baylor law, the truth is that Baylor/UH/SMU are peer schools with the caveat that I think Baylor is the weakest in the bunch. I'm not saying Tech is a festering TTT or anything like that, I just don't see it in the same league as Baylor/UH/SMU.

The way I see it is

UT>>>>>>>>UH/SMU>>>Tech/Baylor>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TxWes/STCL>>>>>>TSU/St. Marys

where a student may jump up or down based on personal concerns (debt, location, etc).

edit: fixing all the quote stuff

[kalvano]

TSU and St. Mary's should be ahead of Wesleyan.

[Nova]

Just for fun, Ill play too.

YSH > UT > T14 >> UHLC/SMU > Baylor >>>> Tech > STCL /St Mary's > Wesleyan/TSU

[nouseforaname123]

Baylor had 17 in firms with 50+ (--LinkRemoved--), which is only 10.4%

Tech had 10 in firms with 50+ (http://www.law.ttu.edu/career/employment_data_2010.asp), which is 4.7%

It isn't a four time advantage, because your numbers were off. Ultimately, it is a difference of 7 students.

Fine, not four times more likely, but Baylor still more than doubles up Tech in this category.

I think more tech students turn down these schools than you think. Numbers arent the end all be all.

Numbers are the end all be all for admissions. I don't doubt there are some students at Tech who got into Baylor/SMU/UH. The overlap at Baylor/SMU/UH is going be strong given the LSAT/GPA medians for those schools. The same can't be said for Tech simply because of Tech's LSAT/GPA medians. A full 75% of the class at Tech is at or below the bottom 25% LSAT score at SMU/UH/Baylor.

Reputation score is better for Baylor. Employment outcomes are measurably better at Baylor. The student body has stronger incoming qualifications at Baylor. Tech's only advantage is cost. These are all objective measurements.

You make a couple of inferences based on practice location and generic job categories to call the schools peer schools. I just don't see it. Based on GPA and LSAT, the Baylor student body looks a lot closer to the SMU/UH student bodies than the TTU student body looks to Baylor's.

[b.gump81]

Just for fun, Ill play too.

YSH > UT > T14 >> UHLC/SMU > Baylor >>>> Tech > STCL /St Mary's > Wesleyan/TSU

insightfulness/value/humor of posts regarding Texas:

nouseforaname, kalvano, b.gump (dare i say)>>>>>>>>1Ls>>>>>>nova>>other 0Ls

Fine, not four times more likely, but Baylor still more than doubles up Tech in this category.

Here we go again.

Yeah just for that one year. now that you were shown your data was wrong, you are just relying on that one year. It wasnt even 2x for the other two years I listed. For the other two years, we are talking about a difference of 1 or 2 students!!!

Numbers are the end all be all for admissions. I don't doubt there are some students at Tech who got into Baylor/SMU/UH. The overlap at Baylor/SMU/UH is going be strong given the LSAT/GPA medians for those schools. The same can't be said for Tech simply because of Tech's LSAT/GPA medians. A full 75% of the class at Tech is at or below the bottom 25% LSAT score at SMU/UH/Baylor.

This isnt taking into consideration URM status and other softs. Granted they will not make up a large percentage, but I would wager more than a third of Tech turned down UH/SMU/Baylor. I wasn't saying your assumption was necessarily dead wrong. I was just saying I think the percentage is slightly higher.

Reputation score is better for Baylor. Employment outcomes are measurably better at Baylor. The student body has stronger incoming qualifications at Baylor. Tech's only advantage is cost. These are all objective measurements.

You make a couple of inferences based on practice location and generic job categories to call the schools peer schools. I just don't see it. Based on GPA and LSAT, the Baylor student body looks a lot closer to the SMU/UH student bodies than the TTU student body looks to Baylor's.

How are my assumptions based on generic job categories? I broke down the information by firm size and clerkships. And who really cares what the student body looks like? Arent employment statistics all that matter? If not, it damn well should be. Because when someone says "peer school," I sure dont initially think LSAT and GPA median. I think about the jobs the graduates get. And with all the data already posted, Baylor and Tech are peer schools in my opinion. Sure, Baylor has slightly better numbers, but not enough to say Tech isn't a peer school. You can think what you want. We both know we are stubborn. But it seems like you are refusing to really look at the employment data and are entrenched in the thought that since Baylor has a higher rank and has higher LSAT and GPA medians that it fits better with UT/UH/SMU. I am just disagreeing based on the employment data and saying that Tech should be considered with Baylor, regardless of its higher rank and incoming class numbers.

[Nova]

Just for fun, Ill play too.

YSH > UT > T14 >> UHLC/SMU > Baylor >>>> Tech > STCL /St Mary's > Wesleyan/TSU

insightfulness/value/humor of posts regarding Texas:

nouseforaname, kalvano, b.gump (dare i say)>>>>>>>>1Ls>>>>>>nova>>other 0Ls

^^^ Im flattered you think my posts are better than other 0Ls

Anyway OP, you have a lot of great data provided by the other posters to sift through.

Its up to you whether the somewhat better job prospects and prefstige is worth the tens of thousands of dollars. For some it is. For others it isnt. Your age (34) is certainly a factor when considering taking on significantly more debt.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Class of 2010:

Baylor- 162 graduates
Private sector full-time medians represented by 60 graduates.
This means 15 cleared 100k, 30 cleared 80k, and 45 cleared 60k. Roughy 9.2%, 18.4%, and 27.6% of the class.

This is actually pretty good ITE. --(and yet still a horrible financial gamble...)

Tech- 210 graduates
Private sector full-time medians represented by 47 graduates.
This means roughly 12 cleared 83k, 24 cleared 60k, and 36 cleared 52k. Roughly 5.6%, 11.2%, and 16.8% of the class.

So like, 18% of Baylor clears 80k which is way better than 17% of Tech clearing 52k, but Tech is so much cheaper to begin with.... Uh, try to go to Baylor on a scholarship without stips?

Ok-- armed with facts, I release you to your cock-measuring idiocy...

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

By the way, SMU, Baylor, and UH would all be T1's if it weren't for the fact the other law schools deans/admissions deans fucking hate them. They get pwned in the peer review score, the biggest single factor in the USNWR. 2.6, 2.4, and 2.6 respectively.

TX should have four T1's, or whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

[kalvano]

By the way, SMU, Baylor, and UH would all be T1's if it weren't for the fact the other law schools deans/admissions deans fucking hate them.

I wonder why that is.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

By the way, SMU, Baylor, and UH would all be T1's if it weren't for the fact the other law schools deans/admissions deans fucking hate them.

I wonder why that is.

I can understand Baylor because they used to/maybe still have TTTT stips on their $$$, and I know some admissions deans really look down on that. Dunno why so many deans are putting the ol 2 by UH or SMU, though.

[Titleist]

By the way, SMU, Baylor, and UH would all be T1's if it weren't for the fact the other law schools deans/admissions deans fucking hate them. They get pwned in the peer review score, the biggest single factor in the USNWR. 2.6, 2.4, and 2.6 respectively.

TX should have four T1's, or whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

That is interesting. Reasons or evidence why other deans hating them?

ETA- answered above.

[b.gump81]

By the way, SMU, Baylor, and UH would all be T1's if it weren't for the fact the other law schools deans/admissions deans fucking hate them.

I wonder why that is.

I can understand Baylor because they used to/maybe still have TTTT stips on their $$$, and I know some admissions deans really look down on that. Dunno why so many deans are putting the ol 2 by UH or SMU, though.

Aren't peer review scores mostly from judges and practicing attorneys, not just deans?

ETA: what is tech? Like a 2.1 or something, right?

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

By the way, SMU, Baylor, and UH would all be T1's if it weren't for the fact the other law schools deans/admissions deans fucking hate them.

I wonder why that is.

I can understand Baylor because they used to/maybe still have TTTT stips on their $$$, and I know some admissions deans really look down on that. Dunno why so many deans are putting the ol 2 by UH or SMU, though.

Aren't peer review scores mostly from judges and practicing attorneys, not just deans?

ETA: what is tech? Like a 2.1 or something, right?

No attorneys/judges are a separate category. All the TX do way better in that category, which is arguable the one that really matters.

Tech gets a 2.0 in the peer review.