Baylor or Texas Tech

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ninjoshua
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Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:15 am

I was all set to go to Texas Tech this fall (2012), but then Baylor contacted me and told me they wanted me for spring of 2013.
Baylor seems like the logical choice based on ranking, but I'm still having a tough time making my final decision, which I'd like to do by this Friday, as that is when the TT seat deposit is due.

I feel I would be equally happy living in Waco or Lubbock, with a slight lead going to Waco, because the surrounding area is prettier.
Therefore, the main things holding me back from a definitive yes to Baylor are the significantly increased cost and the later start (spring vs. fall).
The unique quarter system that Baylor is on may make my late start concerns moot.

If that is the case, then it really comes down to cost and opportunity. Do the advantages of going to Baylor make up for this additional cost?

Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

Additional Personal information:
LSAT: 155
GPA: 3.72
Age: 34
Gender: Male

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Easy-E
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby Easy-E » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:21 am

ninjoshua wrote:I was all set to go to Texas Tech this fall (2012), but then Baylor contacted me and told me they wanted me for spring of 2013.
Baylor seems like the logical choice based on ranking, but I'm still having a tough time making my final decision, which I'd like to do by this Friday, as that is when the TT seat deposit is due.

I feel I would be equally happy living in Waco or Lubbock, with a slight lead going to Waco, because the surrounding area is prettier.
Therefore, the main things holding me back from a definitive yes to Baylor are the significantly increased cost and the later start (spring vs. fall).
The unique quarter system that Baylor is on may make my late start concerns moot.

If that is the case, then it really comes down to cost and opportunity. Do the advantages of going to Baylor make up for this additional cost?

Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

Additional Personal information:
LSAT: 155
GPA: 3.72
Age: 34
Gender: Male


Did you get $$$ from either?

de5igual
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby de5igual » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:22 am

ninjoshua wrote: the main things holding me back from a definitive yes to Baylor are the significantly increased cost and the later start (spring vs. fall).


as it should. is an lsat retake not possible? at least at tech, (i'm assuming) the costs are low. baylor is NOT worth any additional $.

ninjoshua
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:24 am

emarxnj wrote:Did you get $$$ from either?


Nothing from Texas Tech :(
Still waiting for my official letter with any $$$ awards from Baylor

ninjoshua
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:26 am

f0bolous wrote:baylor is NOT worth any additional $.


Really? Wow I guess I was under the impression that it was. If it is not, then Texas Tech is the obvious choice, as it is about half the price, and the Cost of Living is slightly lower in Lubbock vs Waco.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:34 am

You need to examine placement from each law school in your target area. For example, if your target area is Dallas & one law school places significantly better there, than that should be your choice unless there is a substantial difference in total COA.

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby kalvano » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:52 am

Baylor is not worth substantial additional cost over Tech.

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Easy-E
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby Easy-E » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:07 am

ninjoshua wrote:
emarxnj wrote:Did you get $$$ from either?


Nothing from Texas Tech :(
Still waiting for my official letter with any $$$ awards from Baylor



My advice is retake. You've got a solid GPA, but I believe being as far out from UG as I assume you are (could be wrong, no offense meant), LSAT will be a stronger indicator. Retake, get that score up, get that $$$.

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legalese_retard
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby legalese_retard » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:18 am

(1) Where do you want to practice after graduation?
(2) What do you want to do (big law, solo, govt, public interest, etc)?

Answer these questions and you will have a better idea of where you should go. For example, if you want to move to Houston or Austin, you will have a better shot coming out of Baylor. For Dallas, I think both schools are about equal. In San Antonio, Tech has the edge.

If you want to do public interest or govt work, Tech will be a smarter investment. I know several people who cannot take these jobs because they have too much in student loans for the salary offered. Baylor probably has the edge on biglaw, but not significant enough over Tech to warrant the added tuition amount.

Since you are 34, I would advise against taking significant amount of student loans. I agree with the above posters that suggest you should re-take the LSAT and wait another year. Even if you don't get into a better school with the LSAT increase, you should qualify for scholarships in your next year.

ninjoshua
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:32 am

kalvano wrote:Baylor is not worth substantial additional cost over Tech.


I appreciate your opinion and I was hoping that you would post. Thank you.

emarxnj wrote:My advice is retake. You've got a solid GPA, but I believe being as far out from UG as I assume you are (could be wrong, no offense meant), LSAT will be a stronger indicator. Retake, get that score up, get that $$$.


No offense taken :D
I actually graduated with my UG degree in fall of 2010. I was a late starter but went straight through.
I don’t think this info negates your advice to retake though.

legalese_retard wrote:(1) Where do you want to practice after graduation?
(2) What do you want to do (big law, solo, govt, public interest, etc)?

Answer these questions and you will have a better idea of where you should go. For example, if you want to move to Houston or Austin, you will have a better shot coming out of Baylor. For Dallas, I think both schools are about equal. In San Antonio, Tech has the edge.

If you want to do public interest or govt work, Tech will be a smarter investment. I know several people who cannot take these jobs because they have too much in student loans for the salary offered. Baylor probably has the edge on biglaw, but not significant enough over Tech to warrant the added tuition amount.

Since you are 34, I would advise against taking significant amount of student loans. I agree with the above posters that suggest you should re-take the LSAT and wait another year. Even if you don't get into a better school with the LSAT increase, you should qualify for scholarships in your next year.


I don’t know how realistic this goal is, but I really want to clerk for a judge right out of law school. I do understand that this will mean less income, at least initially. That makes me think Texas Tech is the right choice.
After clerking I would like to end up at a mid-size firm and eventually be able to partially retire into some sort of academic position, either administration, teaching, or both.
Right now my preferred market is the Austin area, but I’m flexible on where I end up.

bdole2
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby bdole2 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:36 am

ninjoshua wrote:I don’t know how realistic this goal is, but I really want to clerk for a judge right out of law school. I do understand that this will mean less income, at least initially. That makes me think Texas Tech is the right choice.
After clerking I would like to end up at a mid-size firm and eventually be able to partially retire into some sort of academic position, either administration, teaching, or both.
Right now my preferred market is the Austin area, but I’m flexible on where I end up.


Not realistic from either of those schools. Retake and aim for University of Texas.

ninjoshua
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:54 am

bdole2 wrote:Not realistic from either of those schools. Retake and aim for University of Texas.


Hmm. I met a spring 2011 grad from Texas Tech who is currently clerking for a judge in Austin with a position at a law firm lined up for when he's done. Of course, he may be a very rare case and not something to base anything on.

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b.gump81
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby b.gump81 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:01 am

Retake is tcr because at the very least you can get more money from these schools. If you have to go this year, tech should be the easy choice. The employment data is strikingly pretty equal, and whatever slight (very slight, mind you) advantage Baylor may have for biglaw, it is no where near worth the extra COA and misery of going to baylor.

Clerking is definitely possible at either school, but if you want art. iii, you will have to hustle to be on law review and top of your class, but that is true for pretty much every school, save the t14.

bdole2
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby bdole2 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:07 am

ninjoshua wrote:
bdole2 wrote:Not realistic from either of those schools. Retake and aim for University of Texas.


Hmm. I met a spring 2011 grad from Texas Tech who is currently clerking for a judge in Austin with a position at a law firm lined up for when he's done. Of course, he may be a very rare case and not something to base anything on.


What type of clerkship? I'm not saying you can't get a good firm job from either of these schools, but academia from either of them is a stretch. Still, to get any type of good opportunity from either school you are going to have to perform very well. Whereas with UT the margin for error is greater.

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Titleist
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby Titleist » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:09 am

Retake or Tech. No way Baylor is worth twice the price of Tech.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:39 am

ninjoshua wrote:
bdole2 wrote:Not realistic from either of those schools. Retake and aim for University of Texas.


Hmm. I met a spring 2011 grad from Texas Tech who is currently clerking for a judge in Austin with a position at a law firm lined up for when he's done. Of course, he may be a very rare case and not something to base anything on.


If he is clerking for a federal judge, than yes he is a rare case.

1) Clerkships are incredibly competitive, especially Federal and TX Supreme Court.

2) Austin is a very difficult market to find a job in. There are a ton of people from great schools with great grades trying to return or stay in what is a pretty small legal market.

3) The chances of being getting a tenured track position in legal academia is not likely to happen from either Baylor or Texas Tech, especially if you've been a practicing attorney for too long (the taint of the real world and all). Becoming an adjunct is more realistic, but that mostly depends on how much of a badass you are in the real world (at least that's what I think it depends on--I think landing an adjunct job is much more random).

4) There is a very real possibility you might not find a legal job coming from either school. Are you prepared to go through 3 years of what most people consider torture (I like it, but I think I'm in the minority), rack up a good amount of debt, and then end up having to find a job you could have straight out of UG? I would recommend retaking the LSAT. It's a very learnable test.

ninjoshua
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:59 am

b.gump81 wrote:Retake is tcr because at the very least you can get more money from these schools. If you have to go this year, tech should be the easy choice. The employment data is strikingly pretty equal, and whatever slight (very slight, mind you) advantage Baylor may have for biglaw, it is no where near worth the extra COA and misery of going to baylor.


Thanks for your input.
I hear about the "misery of going to baylor" a lot and I even got this sense from the students that they wear it like a badge of honor (which I found mildly annoying).
I was just wondering what makes Baylor that much harder than other law schools, such as Tech, and shouldn't I be looking to be challenged as much as possible?
Is it just the practice court program that makes it harder, or are there some other factors I'm missing?

JasonR
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby JasonR » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:13 pm

Like everyone else said, please retake for scholarship money, a better school, or both. You have a nice GPA. Don't waste it. Get the PowerScore Bibles, or pay for a good prep course, and study your ass off. The test is learnable. Every point on this test canbe worth tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the school you're looking at.

ninjoshua
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby ninjoshua » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:27 pm

JasonR wrote:Like everyone else said, please retake for scholarship money, a better school, or both. You have a nice GPA. Don't waste it. Get the PowerScore Bibles, or pay for a good prep course, and study your ass off. The test is learnable. Every point on this test canbe worth tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the school you're looking at.


So the consensus definitly seems to be retake the LSAT.
I have only taken it once, so I'm sure I could do better. I guess I'm just feeling old and thinking I need to start as soon as possible.
But at my age, if I can save tens of thousands of dollars of debt, and/or attend a far better school, that may be totally worth delaying a year.

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hookem7
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby hookem7 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:48 pm

How did you prepare for your first lsat? Your 3.72 is solid, don't waste it on these schools at full price. I don't think 10 points better is out of the question and a 165 would get you significant $$ SMU, Baylor and UH (well they don't really give anyone that much) based on my own experiences and presumably Tech as well (didnt apply there out of personal disdain for Lubbock).

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b.gump81
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby b.gump81 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:21 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:4) There is a very real possibility you might not find a legal job coming from either school. Are you prepared to go through 3 years of what most people consider torture (I like it, but I think I'm in the minority), rack up a good amount of debt, and then end up having to find a job you could have straight out of UG? I would recommend retaking the LSAT. It's a very learnable test.


Both schools have about 75% of its 2010 class in full-time jobs that require a jd, which is just as good as a lot of tier one schools.

ninjoshua wrote:
Thanks for your input.
I hear about the "misery of going to baylor" a lot and I even got this sense from the students that they wear it like a badge of honor (which I found mildly annoying).
I was just wondering what makes Baylor that much harder than other law schools, such as Tech, and shouldn't I be looking to be challenged as much as possible?
Is it just the practice court program that makes it harder, or are there some other factors I'm missing?


Yeah Ive heard the practice court is brutal. Additionally I would think it is largely unnecessary. I mean, sure, a Baylor student may be a better advocate after graduation, but that advantage will largely dissipate as other schools' graduates gain experience (and if you don't even want to be a litigator it is even more useless). Also, Baylor just has a reputation for a cut-throat student body. That means they will supposedly hide books from classmates, tear out pages, not share their notes or outlines, etc. Law school is miserable itself, but add to it a student body that will blatantly stab you in the back like that will drive you insane. I can't speak for other schools, but tech has a pretty cordial atmosphere. Don't get me wrong: there is definitely competition. But I haven't heard of or witnessed anyone taking the competition to the point of deliberately trying to sabotage others

JasonR
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby JasonR » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:55 pm

ninjoshua wrote:
JasonR wrote:Like everyone else said, please retake for scholarship money, a better school, or both. You have a nice GPA. Don't waste it. Get the PowerScore Bibles, or pay for a good prep course, and study your ass off. The test is learnable. Every point on this test can be worth tens of thousands of dollars, depending on the school you're looking at.


So the consensus definitly seems to be retake the LSAT.
I have only taken it once, so I'm sure I could do better. I guess I'm just feeling old and thinking I need to start as soon as possible.
But at my age, if I can save tens of thousands of dollars of debt, and/or attend a far better school, that may be totally worth delaying a year.


That is the correct assessment. I understand the feelings of urgency and the impatience to get moving, but one more year will be easily more than worth it if you can avoid tens of thousands of dollars of debt (up to the cost of tuition) and/or attend a better school and have better job prospects. You need to treat the LSAT as a second job between now and October, one that could potentially pay you 100K+ (in debt savings and/or future earnings) to attend law school one year later.

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby kalvano » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:11 pm

With a 3.7, particularly if you want to clerk, you really need to retake and get into UT. However, given your age, I can understand why you might be reluctant to do so. It will start to hurt you the closer to 40 you get when you graduate, which is a very real concern that you need to take into account.

So, assuming you don't retake, if it's between Baylor and Tech, and Baylor hasn't thrown down a lot of money, Tech all day long. Baylor is a intensely miserable experience, and their placement does not make them worth significantly more. Frankly, given how miserable Baylor is, I'm not even sure it's worth it with a full scholarship.

As far as clerking and academia goes, economies of scale means it's very easy to apply, but do not expect anything to come of it. Expect to be looking for a decent mid-sized firm job coming out of school.

mtyler19
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby mtyler19 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:14 pm

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Last edited by mtyler19 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jerik
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Re: Baylor or Texas Tech

Postby Jerik » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:56 pm

ninjoshua wrote:Thanks for your input.
I hear about the "misery of going to baylor" a lot and I even got this sense from the students that they wear it like a badge of honor (which I found mildly annoying).
I was just wondering what makes Baylor that much harder than other law schools, such as Tech, and shouldn't I be looking to be challenged as much as possible?
Is it just the practice court program that makes it harder, or are there some other factors I'm missing?



It's not really that its hard. 3rd year law students at baylor dont even take any other classes besides mock trail. The misery everyone describes is that the last 6 weeks of class they are preparing cases for their mock trail, studying for their exams, trying to find leads on jobs, and studying for the bar. All at the same time.

Either way, Tech is alot less stressfull in that 3rd year, is cheaper, and is usually better for finding judicial clerkships on average. The only thing Baylor will do for you is put you further in debt and give you some experience in litigation, which you dont really need.




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