UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Help me decide:

UVA ($75k)
20
20%
Georgetown ($135k)
22
22%
Vandy (full ride + stipend)
57
58%
 
Total votes: 99

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danielhay11
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UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby danielhay11 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:03 pm

I hesitate to call this a problem, because this is certainly a good situation to be in, but I have about 48 hours to make a decision and am genuinely torn. The title basically says it all, but I have provided more information on each option below if you care to read on. Also, I'm pretty open to where I eventually practice, but most of my contacts are in the northeast (NJ, NY, DE, DC).

UVA: UVA has offered a half scholarship and there is the potential for more money to be added at a later date. However, I won't know about additional funds until next week at the earliest. I really enjoyed visiting UVA earlier this month and am attracted to the breadth and diversity of their course offerings, but I don't know if I could do three years in the C'Ville bro scene. UVA was my top choice going into this process, and in a vacuum still is. Financially, though, I don't think their current offer is enough to seal the deal, and holding out for more money from them would require turning down the other two offers. [Deposit deadline: April 6]

Georgetown: I haven't visited Georgetown yet and honestly wasn't too attracted to the school during my initial research. However, they offered me an annual scholarship of $45,000, which would cover all but $1,500 in tuition and the (very high) COL. I used to work in DC and loved both the city and working in politics. However, the COA (much higher than they advertise on their website) and what I've heard about the school's culture give me pause. [Commitment deadline: April 9]

Vanderbilt: This morning, I was offered one of Vandy's LSMAs, which is a full ride plus an annual stipend of $5,000. Due to the nature of the award, I need to give Vanderbilt a binding commitment by Wednesday at noon. I definitely fell in love with Vandy during ASW, and my wife (a southerner) is pulling hard for a move to Nashville. My only hesitations with Vandy are (a) its regional portability, (b) the diversity of its course offerings, and, to a much lesser extent, (c) its reputation in the legal profession vis a vis the other two schools. [Commitment deadline: April 4]

I think I'm ever-so-slightly leaning slightly in one direction, but I would still appreciate the collective wisdom of my fellow applicants and current students at these schools.

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flem
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby flem » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:09 pm

If it was me, UVA in a heartbeat. More mobility. Georgetown seems obviously out.

Unless you want Atlanta BigLaw specifically, then go to Vandy and be in the top third.

Tough to turn down the Vandy offer, I'm sure. Congrats on having great options.

EDIT: I read the numbers as COA for some reason. G'town, brah.
Last edited by flem on Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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joemoviebuff
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby joemoviebuff » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Honestly I don't know if you can really make a truly bad decision here. If you can be content with the regional portability of Vandy (it sounds like your wife is, and that's important) then I would really consider taking as much money as you can. Vandy is still a great school.

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R86
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby R86 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:11 pm

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:15 pm

Firstly, I live in DC and I don't think the CoL in DC is too bad if you're smart. You could definitely do it under $15k if necessary.

That being said, if you want biglaw, I would go UVA. If you want PI/government, then you really need to consider Georgetown and that nearly full ride.

Considering the full ride at Georgetown, I don't really think Vandy should be in this equation unless you really, really like Nashville. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown. No one would fault you for taking the full ride + stipend, but I don't know if it's better than either T14 option you have considering the scholarship amounts.

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flem
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby flem » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:21 pm

Wait, is 75K the cost at UVA and 135K the cost at G'Town? Or scholarship amounts.

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Dany
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Dany » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:22 pm

So, super rough math (and someone please correct me if I'm off), it'd be something like $136,000 debt for UVA and $56,000 for Vandy (although this doesn't take into account tuition increases which won't affect you at Vandy but will at UVA). I personally don't think UVA is worth $80,000 more than Vanderbilt, given that you liked Vandy and your wife prefers it. I would absolutely pick Vandy, but I don't think you'd be crazy for choosing UVA. I just think attending a school like Vandy for slightly less than the cost of living for three years is a great deal, and if your wife works you could almost go debt-free. But if you really think you will get more money from UVA to narrow the gap, that could change your calculus. Is there any way you could call/email UVA and explain your situation to see if they'd be willing to up your scholarship (like today)? Long shot but it can't hurt.

Best of luck with the decision, and congrats on the great offers.

Actually I decided to edit. It might end up being that it's smartest to turn down Vandy since Georgetown's offer is similar and would be a good safety net while you wait on UVA, but it sounds like you and your wife really prefer Vandy to Georgetown, so balancing your preferences with that early decision date at Vandy will be tough.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:25 pm

flem wrote:Wait, is 75K the cost at UVA and 135K the cost at G'Town? Or scholarship amounts.

Scholarship amounts.

rad lulz
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:28 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:Considering the full ride at Georgetown, I don't really think Vandy should be in this equation unless you really, really like Nashville. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown.

lol wut?

All these schools are pretty portable, with the caveat that even from a place like UVA, it's pretty hard to get job in places you don't have ties (you being you and your wife; that counts). It's not like going to UVA or GULC over Vandy is suddenly going to bust open insular markets that you don't have ties to (most secondary markets have a pretty high degree of insularity). That's not how legal hiring works.

No reason to kick Vandy out of the game yet. Most recent stats we can compare show that 50% of GULC people got firms of 100+ (roughly biglaw) plus federal clerkships versus 43% at Vandy. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

What do you want to do? And where do you want to do it? Without an answer to this, it's pretty hard to say anything here.

enzo66
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby enzo66 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:05 pm

UVA is only as "bro" as you want it to be. I'd go with UVA.

t14fanboy
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby t14fanboy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:08 pm

Vandy not even close.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:17 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Considering the full ride at Georgetown, I don't really think Vandy should be in this equation unless you really, really like Nashville. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown.

lol wut?

All these schools are pretty portable, with the caveat that even from a place like UVA, it's pretty hard to get job in places you don't have ties (you being you and your wife; that counts). It's not like going to UVA or GULC over Vandy is suddenly going to bust open insular markets that you don't have ties to (most secondary markets have a pretty high degree of insularity). That's not how legal hiring works.

No reason to kick Vandy out of the game yet. Most recent stats we can compare show that 50% of GULC people got firms of 100+ (roughly biglaw) plus federal clerkships versus 43% at Vandy. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

What do you want to do? And where do you want to do it? Without an answer to this, it's pretty hard to say anything here.

I'm not speaking about total placement, I was referring more to the OP not being sure where he wants to place. I would think conventional wisdom is that Georgetown casts a wider geographic net.

t14fanboy
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby t14fanboy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:23 pm

Doorkeeper wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Considering the full ride at Georgetown, I don't really think Vandy should be in this equation unless you really, really like Nashville. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown.

lol wut?

All these schools are pretty portable, with the caveat that even from a place like UVA, it's pretty hard to get job in places you don't have ties (you being you and your wife; that counts). It's not like going to UVA or GULC over Vandy is suddenly going to bust open insular markets that you don't have ties to (most secondary markets have a pretty high degree of insularity). That's not how legal hiring works.

No reason to kick Vandy out of the game yet. Most recent stats we can compare show that 50% of GULC people got firms of 100+ (roughly biglaw) plus federal clerkships versus 43% at Vandy. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

What do you want to do? And where do you want to do it? Without an answer to this, it's pretty hard to say anything here.

I'm not speaking about total placement, I was referring more to the OP not being sure where he wants to place. I would think conventional wisdom is that Georgetown casts a wider geographic net.


Not enough to justify the relative cost.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Doorkeeper » Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:26 pm

t14fanboy wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Doorkeeper wrote:Considering the full ride at Georgetown, I don't really think Vandy should be in this equation unless you really, really like Nashville. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown. It has far less regional portability than Georgetown.

lol wut?

All these schools are pretty portable, with the caveat that even from a place like UVA, it's pretty hard to get job in places you don't have ties (you being you and your wife; that counts). It's not like going to UVA or GULC over Vandy is suddenly going to bust open insular markets that you don't have ties to (most secondary markets have a pretty high degree of insularity). That's not how legal hiring works.

No reason to kick Vandy out of the game yet. Most recent stats we can compare show that 50% of GULC people got firms of 100+ (roughly biglaw) plus federal clerkships versus 43% at Vandy. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181415

What do you want to do? And where do you want to do it? Without an answer to this, it's pretty hard to say anything here.

I'm not speaking about total placement, I was referring more to the OP not being sure where he wants to place. I would think conventional wisdom is that Georgetown casts a wider geographic net.


Not enough to justify the relative cost.

Really? What's the difference, 20-30k over three years (15k stipend, $5k in tuition, plus CoL)? I would think wider geographic portability to be worth that if one isn't sure where they want to practice. If OP said that he wanted to work in the South, this wouldn't be an issue and he should go to Vandy, but that's not the case here.

HeavenWood
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:25 pm

Vandy, assuming your wife's Nashville roots would be sufficient to break into that/possibly other? Southern markets (someone clarify this for me; I'm looking at you, rad). Vandy places well into NYC and you can still land DC with good grades.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:31 pm

Vanderbilt.

P.S. It's really the T-18 plus BC & BU.

P.P.S. Call Chicago & inform them of your Vanderbilt deadline.

rad lulz
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:55 pm

m
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

envisciguy
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby envisciguy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:55 pm

Like most other people in this thread, I voted Vandy here. It's hard to turn down an offer to essentially be paid to go to law school, and a pretty good one at that. Normally I'd pick UVA over Vandy (as I'm doing in my own case), but your offer just seems like too much to pass up.

EDIT: Just read your post closer and considering you loved it during ASW and your wife is high on Nashville, it sounds like the decision should be even easier. But of course, you can't go wrong with any of these choices.
Last edited by envisciguy on Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:57 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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monkey85
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby monkey85 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:03 pm

rad lulz wrote:Sample size is small, but one of my 3L bros knows some dude his year who pulled off a Nashville large firm offer bc he was married. The same 3L bro got an offer in I think Wisco or MN (one of those cold states) because his wife was from there. Wives work well apparently though like I said, small sample.


I'll add to the sample size. Told the firm my wife was going for a PhD in a city in which I have NO ties (never lived, no relatives, nada). Boom. Offer.

Wives work.

bartleby
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby bartleby » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:07 pm

i voted for vandy, all day everyday. nashville is an awesome city and i 100% subscribe to happy wife / happy life. a lot depends on your spouse though and your relationship with her.

i can't imagine going to law school and then coming home to have to deal with another person.

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The Gentleman
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby The Gentleman » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:27 pm

I faced a similar situation last year between GULC (pretty much full ride) and Penn (1/2 Ride). Even though I liked Penn more, I ended up choosing the $$$ at GULC (but then got off the Harvard waitlist in May lol).

Look at it in terms of monthly payments on a 10 year plan. With 120k of debt from UVA, your payment is around $1300. With 70k of debt from GULC, that payment is around $800. And with 45k of debt from Vandy, it's around $500.

To me, GULC seems like a good balance. 1) You're giving yourself a decent chance at big law (40% or so?), but you're not totally sunk if you miss it. This means that you can still swing debt payments with the mythical mid law job, so long as you find it. 2) You're getting the GULC LRAP, which is pretty solid if you're committed to PI. And 3) you're getting a T14 brand name - even if it is a notch below UVA.

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Dany
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Dany » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:33 pm

The Gentleman wrote:I faced a similar situation last year between GULC (pretty much full ride) and Penn (1/2 Ride). Even though I liked Penn more, I ended up choosing the $$$ at GULC (but then got off the Harvard waitlist in May lol).

Look at it in terms of monthly payments on a 10 year plan. With 120k of debt from UVA, your payment is around $1300. With 70k of debt from GULC, that payment is around $800. And with 45k of debt from Vandy, it's around $500.

To me, GULC seems like a good balance. 1) You're giving yourself a decent chance at big law (40% or so?), but you're not totally sunk if you miss it. This means that you can still swing debt payments with the mythical mid law job, so long as you find it. 2) You're getting the GULC LRAP, which is pretty solid if you're committed to PI. And 3) you're getting a T14 brand name - even if it is a notch below UVA.

I think this is good analysis in a vacuum, but OP isn't that excited about GULC, he loved Vandy, and his wife wants to live in Nashville.

rad lulz
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby rad lulz » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:35 pm

k
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Dany
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Re: UVA (Half) v. Gtown ($135k) v. Vandy (Full + Stipend)

Postby Dany » Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:38 pm

rad lulz wrote:If there is one thing I've learned as a degenerate bro, if you find that girl who loves you, you better not let her get away, because that shit is a rarity.

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW




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