Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school?

Northwestern (60K)
36
45%
CLS/NYU (sticker)
44
55%
 
Total votes: 80

dixiecupdrinking
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:39 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:19 am

rayiner wrote:The punch line is that unpaid interest under IBR doesn't compound. So the resulting tax bomb isn't that bad.

Are you sure about this? If so that's good news. I was pretty sure it does compound, but maybe I was just thinking of the interest on the original principle. In any event, if you're not making enough for your IBR payments to cover the interest, it will still accumulate and your forgiveness amount could well exceed your original principle.

User avatar
Perdevise
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:45 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby Perdevise » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:31 am

This may not matter to you as much as the financial aspects, but have you visited both? People seem to make decent financial arguments for either school. Is there one you feel you could more easily succeed at?

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby rayiner » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:16 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
rayiner wrote:The punch line is that unpaid interest under IBR doesn't compound. So the resulting tax bomb isn't that bad.

Are you sure about this? If so that's good news. I was pretty sure it does compound, but maybe I was just thinking of the interest on the original principle. In any event, if you're not making enough for your IBR payments to cover the interest, it will still accumulate and your forgiveness amount could well exceed your original principle.


http://www.ibrinfo.org/faq.vp.html#_How_does_IBR_

Interest not covered by your IBR payments will accrue, but only on your original principle amount. So your forgiveness tax bomb will be on like $300k rather than $1 million.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15515
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:27 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
rayiner wrote:The punch line is that unpaid interest under IBR doesn't compound. So the resulting tax bomb isn't that bad.

Are you sure about this? If so that's good news. I was pretty sure it does compound, but maybe I was just thinking of the interest on the original principle. In any event, if you're not making enough for your IBR payments to cover the interest, it will still accumulate and your forgiveness amount could well exceed your original principle.


He's right that interest doesn't compound under IBR, but your point is right on too.

Perdevise wrote:This may not matter to you as much as the financial aspects, but have you visited both? People seem to make decent financial arguments for either school. Is there one you feel you could more easily succeed at?


I have visited both. Just got back from the ASW events in NYC and really enjoyed my time there. I'll be heading to Northwestern's ASW in a couple of weeks, but I visited last August and loved the location. I'm also older (28) and might relate a bit better to students at Northwestern. But it's not like I felt out of place last week.

To be honest California placement isn't a huge deal, if only because I know with my career goals that I'll probably start off in New York.

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby bdubs » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:32 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:To be honest California placement isn't a huge deal, if only because I know with my career goals that I'll probably start off in New York.


You should probably take CLS then. The difference in NYC placement is substantial.

chasgoose
Posts: 715
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby chasgoose » Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:48 pm

I would take whichever of CLS/NYU you liked better at ASW. They are both probably worth about $60-75k more than NU in the long run. Among CLS/NYU, the differences are negligible so go to whichever one you liked more.

TheRedMamba
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:33 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby TheRedMamba » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:21 pm

Another thing to add here is that you never know how your preferences/goals might change during and after three years of law school. In the context of this thread, OP might want CA now but that is definitely subject to change over time due to life experiences and, among other things, job offers. With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind

User avatar
kennethellenparcell
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:02 am

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby kennethellenparcell » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:29 pm

TheRedMamba wrote:With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind


Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby bdubs » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:04 pm

kennethellenparcell wrote:
TheRedMamba wrote:With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind


Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?


No, this is terrible advice. CLS only places a handful of students outside of NYC and DC. Both CLS and NYU don't have a significant edge in PI, academia, or clerkships. Their advantages are limited to NYC big law, and giving you a little bit more cushion at the margins for other highly competitive jobs.

woeisme
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:39 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby woeisme » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:18 pm

Where are your ties?

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15515
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:27 pm

woeisme wrote:Where are your ties?


Grew up in San Diego, undergrad in Orange County, live in Phoenix.

But again, given the work I want to do I am not at all confident of ending up out West, at least not right away.

User avatar
booboo
Posts: 1032
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:39 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby booboo » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:35 pm

Though your goal is SoCal, that is not a good "risk averse" way to approach law school. I'd be more concerned about maximizing potential for getting a BigLaw job (if that is the goal). Though NU does seem to place remarkably well, I still believe CLS/NYU have the type of control over the NY market that every school save HY crave (S grads usually could not care less about working in NY, is my assumption, since there seems to be a dearth of them).

ETA: The point about the control over the NY market goes to the fact that NY legal market is the only that has shown any sense of a real recovery from the 2008 crash.

woeisme
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:39 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby woeisme » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:57 pm

CLS or NYU then, I guess. I think I'd do CLS.

TheRedMamba
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:33 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby TheRedMamba » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:15 am

bdubs wrote:
kennethellenparcell wrote:
TheRedMamba wrote:With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind


Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?


No, this is terrible advice. CLS only places a handful of students outside of NYC and DC. Both CLS and NYU don't have a significant edge in PI, academia, or clerkships. Their advantages are limited to NYC big law, and giving you a little bit more cushion at the margins for other highly competitive jobs.


Again, this is due to self-selection more than anything else. If you think the only factor that makes CLS > NU is NYC BigLaw you are dreaming

bdubs
Posts: 3729
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby bdubs » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:52 am

TheRedMamba wrote:Again, this is due to self-selection more than anything else. If you think the only factor that makes CLS > NU is NYC BigLaw you are dreaming


Not saying they are equivalent, but they are close enough that the $$ difference needs to be assessed closely.

OP wants to work in NYC. Most people who want to work in NYC want to work for the V10 firms. CLS and NYU have a distinct advantage with placement in the V10. I think CLS/NYU are worth it in that situation.

For almost any other career goal, I would advise them to seriously consider NU.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby rayiner » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:21 am

TheRedMamba wrote:
bdubs wrote:
kennethellenparcell wrote:
TheRedMamba wrote:With respect to that, NYU/CLS give you far more freedom than does NU if you do change your mind


Can you talk about this in more detail? Does the NYU/CLS degree really have more nationwide mobility than the NU degree? I mean, both are national schools right...?


No, this is terrible advice. CLS only places a handful of students outside of NYC and DC. Both CLS and NYU don't have a significant edge in PI, academia, or clerkships. Their advantages are limited to NYC big law, and giving you a little bit more cushion at the margins for other highly competitive jobs.


Again, this is due to self-selection more than anything else. If you think the only factor that makes CLS > NU is NYC BigLaw you are dreaming


"It's self-selection" is a great way to counter an argument based on data with an argument based on begging the question.

90% of the advantage of CLS/NYU is better placement into NYC big law. This is a very significant advantage, no doubt. However, I don't think CLS/NYU carry substantially more weight outside of NYC, or at least not enough to turn down money over.

I interviewed in DC, Chicago, New York, and Atlanta, and talked to partners a lot about recruiting. In every market, especially in DC, only H/Y are really considered to be in a different league than the rest of the T14.

User avatar
Bronck
Posts: 2025
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:28 pm

Re: Northwestern vs. CLS/NYU

Postby Bronck » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:12 am

I suggest CLS, and you know why brotha.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests