Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

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NinerFan
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby NinerFan » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:36 am

I'm not saying Duke isn't prestigious. It's ranked highly for not just law, but medicine, undergrad, business, etc.

I'm just saying that its name recognition, outside of the South, is not the same as the Ivies or Stanford. Does this matter, is it relevant to choosing a law school? Depends on you.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby Tadatsune » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:59 am

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
NinerFan wrote:I think basing your decision between schools like Michigan and Duke based on clerkships is like counting your chickens. Both schools have respectable placement (15% or so?) into clerkships, but it's certainly no guarantee at either school.

My feeling is that the two schools are about equal in terms of career opportunities and prestige. Duke might have more "lay prestige" in the South, but outside of the South and, oddly enough, China, I don't think they're all that prestigious.

Sounds like it's mostly a push between the two, so just go to the one that you feel like you'll be most comfortable at.


Definitely disagree about Duke not being prestigious, even outside the south. It's a top-10 undergrad school, for goodness sake. Granted, I'm from the south, but I think a lot of people would argue it's more prestigious than the lowest Ivies (read: Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown).


I would disagree with your belief that Duke is prestigious outside the south, it just isn't that well known. Of those that have heard of Duke, it is usually because of one of three reasons, none of which have anything to do with academics: the Duke lacrosse scandal, Tucker Max, or basketball.


Given that I had heard of Duke long ago in its "ivy of the South" capacity, and only just become aware of "Tucker Max," this strikes me as an odd assertion. Obviously, basketball has a lot to do with Duke's fame, but in my experience people tend to regard it well in an academic sense in addition to being a basketball powerhouse. And no, I'm not from the South.

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quiver
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby quiver » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:29 am

sach1282 wrote:Yes, divorce papers being filed Monday.

Also, CoA is not equal with the joint degree. Duke costs 20k more than Mich.

Just redid my CoA calculations and this is what it ends up with for Duke/Cornell/Mich with the budget numbers posted on their respective websites. The number = (total expenses * 3) - scholarship $. $54k at Duke/Mich, $66k at Cornell.


Cornell: 158,040
Michigan: 149,610
Duke: 158,310 (add 20k for joint degree)
I'd probably go with Michigan then; they're so equal on almost all your factors that I'd just take the less expensive one. While 10k doesn't make too much of a difference in the long run, I don't think Duke is worth 10k more than Michigan and definitely not 30k more with that joint degree. Maybe try to visit both again since your Michigan trip may have been skewed a little the first time?

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sach1282
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby sach1282 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:26 pm

Just thought I'd update, after a negotiation email, Duke is now offering $60,000 plus a $5,000 dual degree grant.

woeisme
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby woeisme » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:38 pm

sach1282 wrote:Just thought I'd update, after a negotiation email, Duke is now offering $60,000 plus a $5,000 dual degree grant.


So scrap Michigan and go to whichever of Cornell or Duke is cheaper/you like more.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:51 pm

woeisme wrote:
sach1282 wrote:Just thought I'd update, after a negotiation email, Duke is now offering $60,000 plus a $5,000 dual degree grant.


So scrap Michigan and go to whichever of Cornell or Duke is cheaper/you like more.


Ehh... based on cost alone, Duke is still more expensive (Duke was $30k more, not it is just $21k more). Either way, I think you should decide whether or not you'd like to take on the extra debt for the extra degree. I know OP said he may like to get into academia, which is great, but a masters really isn't going to help with that in a direct way... it may make getting into a PhD program a bit easier, but, let's face it... if you do well at Michigan Law School, you shouldn't have much of an issue getting into a PhD program.

Choose based on your gut feeling because, at this point, it appears pretty equal... I guess the one thing that would push me toward Michigan in your situation is this: If you go to Duke, you are going to earn 2 degrees in 3 years... which is nice, but also means you'll have a lot less time for activities like Moot Court, Law Review, Clinics, etc... I imagine you'd be incredibly thinly spread if you were doing classes in the law school, grad school, and then attempted to throw on a clinic/journal/moot court, whatever.

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sach1282
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby sach1282 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:00 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
I guess the one thing that would push me toward Michigan in your situation is this: If you go to Duke, you are going to earn 2 degrees in 3 years... which is nice, but also means you'll have a lot less time for activities like Moot Court, Law Review, Clinics, etc... I imagine you'd be incredibly thinly spread if you were doing classes in the law school, grad school, and then attempted to throw on a clinic/journal/moot court, whatever.


I would love to hear from any current joint degree students at Duke about whether this is an issue or not. I know Duke reduces the credit hour requirements, but is that enough to avoid the issue mentioned above? If I went to Duke, I would want to do both the Appellate Litigation clinic and the Entrepreneurial Clinic if at all possible.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:47 pm

sach1282 wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
I guess the one thing that would push me toward Michigan in your situation is this: If you go to Duke, you are going to earn 2 degrees in 3 years... which is nice, but also means you'll have a lot less time for activities like Moot Court, Law Review, Clinics, etc... I imagine you'd be incredibly thinly spread if you were doing classes in the law school, grad school, and then attempted to throw on a clinic/journal/moot court, whatever.


I would love to hear from any current joint degree students at Duke about whether this is an issue or not. I know Duke reduces the credit hour requirements, but is that enough to avoid the issue mentioned above? If I went to Duke, I would want to do both the Appellate Litigation clinic and the Entrepreneurial Clinic if at all possible.


I think you should call the school. I know at Michigan, they allow up to 12, I believe, cross-enrolled credits. However, that just means less electives in each of the schools. Also, although clinics may only be 3 or 4 units, they are much more work than that. Most of the students I spoke with that were in clinics advised they were spending easily upward of 10-12 hours each week for their clinics between client meetings, professor meetings, class, etc... I have no doubt that you'd be able to sign-up for the clinics, but I doubt that you'd be able to do them, and the joint degree, to your fullest abilities and stay sane. I completely understand your goals, but it may not be practical to attempt to do everything at once. You may have to make a concession, one way or the other.

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Re: Michigan v. Duke (Specific concerns require discussion!)

Postby dabbadon8 » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:55 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
sach1282 wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
I guess the one thing that would push me toward Michigan in your situation is this: If you go to Duke, you are going to earn 2 degrees in 3 years... which is nice, but also means you'll have a lot less time for activities like Moot Court, Law Review, Clinics, etc... I imagine you'd be incredibly thinly spread if you were doing classes in the law school, grad school, and then attempted to throw on a clinic/journal/moot court, whatever.


I would love to hear from any current joint degree students at Duke about whether this is an issue or not. I know Duke reduces the credit hour requirements, but is that enough to avoid the issue mentioned above? If I went to Duke, I would want to do both the Appellate Litigation clinic and the Entrepreneurial Clinic if at all possible.


I think you should call the school. I know at Michigan, they allow up to 12, I believe, cross-enrolled credits. However, that just means less electives in each of the schools. Also, although clinics may only be 3 or 4 units, they are much more work than that. Most of the students I spoke with that were in clinics advised they were spending easily upward of 10-12 hours each week for their clinics between client meetings, professor meetings, class, etc... I have no doubt that you'd be able to sign-up for the clinics, but I doubt that you'd be able to do them, and the joint degree, to your fullest abilities and stay sane. I completely understand your goals, but it may not be practical to attempt to do everything at once. You may have to make a concession, one way or the other.


The dual degree students actually have it easier then the regular JD's in a way. They start in the summer and take 2 of the 1L classes. In fall they actually had less credit hrs then the rest of the JD's. This semester they have the same but one of the classes is for their dual degree so it takes pressure off since the grades for the other degree presumably matter less.




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