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Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:48 pm
by dolphin
In at both, with no info on merit or need-based aid. How much extra money is a degree from Stanford worth? How does the experience at Stanford compare to the experience at Berkeley? I will visit both schools for the first time in April during back-to-back preview weekends. I have never lived anywhere outside of the East Coast suburbs and cities, but these are the best schools I got into and I'm not bound to a particular region.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:52 pm
by shoeshine
Make a poll.
Stanford >>> Berkeley in most categories.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:53 pm
by johansantana21
shoeshine wrote:Make a poll.
Stanford >>> Berkeley in most categories.
EVERY category.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:56 pm
by t14fanboy
Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:56 pm
by shoeshine
johansantana21 wrote:shoeshine wrote:Make a poll.
Stanford >>> Berkeley in most categories.
EVERY category.
Nope.
Hipster liberal vegan social scene:
Berkeley > Stanford
Everything Else:
Stanford > Berkeley
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:56 pm
by dolphin
johansantana21 wrote:shoeshine wrote:Make a poll.
Stanford >>> Berkeley in most categories.
EVERY category.
Is it true that Berkeley gives very little merit-based aid? If so, I'll probably end up at Stanford. I'm trying to quantify the added value from a Stanford degree and failing miserably at this pursuit...
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:07 pm
by rad lulz
t14fanboy wrote:Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:08 pm
by dolphin
t14fanboy wrote:Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
One is ranked 2 and the other is ranked 7. Both are nationally known. In the same vein, just because UCLA and UT are ranked lower than Duke/Cornell doesn't make them vastly inferior choices. In my opinion, the T3/T6/T14 and "everyone else" perspective is limiting. However, that is why I am asking for advice on this forum.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:10 pm
by johansantana21
dolphin wrote:t14fanboy wrote:Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
One is ranked 2 and the other is ranked 7. Both are nationally known. In the same vein, just because UCLA and UT are ranked lower than Duke/Cornell doesn't make them vastly inferior choices. In my opinion, the T3/T6/T14 and "everyone else" perspective is limiting. However, that is why I am asking for advice on this forum.
You imbecile, comparing Duke/Cornell vs. UT/UCLA to Stanford vs. Berkeley is downright retarded.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:11 pm
by dolphin
I must admit, the personal email from Dean Kramer was pretty classy. However, Berkeley's system of reserving your spot by giving your word rather than a seat deposit is also pretty classy. Both schools are compelling. I may have to deposit at Stanford and drag out this decision to the June 1 deadline at Berkeley.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:13 pm
by dolphin
johansantana21 wrote:dolphin wrote:t14fanboy wrote:Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
One is ranked 2 and the other is ranked 7. Both are nationally known. In the same vein, just because UCLA and UT are ranked lower than Duke/Cornell doesn't make them vastly inferior choices. In my opinion, the T3/T6/T14 and "everyone else" perspective is limiting. However, that is why I am asking for advice on this forum.
You imbecile, comparing Duke/Cornell vs. UT/UCLA to Stanford vs. Berkeley is downright retarded.
Kindly back up that assertion with some facts. Thank you.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:15 pm
by rad lulz
dolphin wrote:t14fanboy wrote:Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
One is ranked 2 and the other is ranked 7. Both are nationally known. In the same vein, just because UCLA and UT are ranked lower than Duke/Cornell doesn't make them vastly inferior choices. In my opinion, the T3/T6/T14 and "everyone else" perspective is limiting. However, that is why I am asking for advice on this forum.
Well basically a Stanford degree gives you the ability to all but waltz into prestigious and desirable employment. 30% of Stanford people in 2010 got federal clerkships for chrissakes. Berk doesn't have that effect. Rankings belie the difference between the schools. It's also better recognized on the West coast, aka better than Boalt in its "home market." Unless Berk throws money at you, or you just hate Stanford irrationally, you go to Stanford.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:22 pm
by dolphin
rad lulz wrote:dolphin wrote:t14fanboy wrote:Troll. No one could possibly go to Bezerkeley instead of Stanford without the persuasion of serious $$$$$$.
One is ranked 2 and the other is ranked 7. Both are nationally known. In the same vein, just because UCLA and UT are ranked lower than Duke/Cornell doesn't make them vastly inferior choices. In my opinion, the T3/T6/T14 and "everyone else" perspective is limiting. However, that is why I am asking for advice on this forum.
Well basically a Stanford degree gives you the ability to all but waltz into prestigious and desirable employment. 30% of Stanford people in 2010 got federal clerkships for chrissakes. Berk doesn't have that effect. Rankings belie the difference between the schools. It's also better recognized on the West coast, aka better than Boalt in its "home market." Unless Berk throws money at you, or you just hate Stanford irrationally, you go to Stanford.
I don't hate Stanford irrationally, but am skeptical that any degree outside of Yale will allow you to "all but waltz into prestigious and desirable employment". I do know some Harvard law grads that have had to accept 60K govt positions because they didn't get better offers. Are you saying that by going to Stanford I will have a better shot of employment in NYC than NYU/Columbia and in Chicago than Chicago/Northwestern?
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:28 pm
by rad lulz
.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:33 pm
by dolphin
rad lulz wrote:
Dude the economy is shit and people would punch their own mom in the face for a 60k govt position. Plus with H's LRAP? That's an awesome outcome.
This is why I really question the intelligence of people (myself included) applying to law school with the current legal market. Is a transcript with straight passes from Stanford really better than one with passes and honors from Boalt?
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:36 pm
by splitbrain
dolphin wrote:rad lulz wrote:
Dude the economy is shit and people would punch their own mom in the face for a 60k govt position. Plus with H's LRAP? That's an awesome outcome.
This is why I really question the intelligence of people (myself included) applying to law school with the current legal market. Is a transcript with straight passes from Stanford really better than one with passes and honors from Boalt?
Not necessarily, but what relevance does that have in your decision? You can't predict what will happen so it's better to weigh what happens to the median student from each school.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:38 pm
by rad lulz
.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:40 pm
by anstone1988
dolphin wrote:
I don't hate Stanford irrationally, but am skeptical that any degree outside of Yale Stanford will allow you to "all but waltz into prestigious and desirable employment". I do know some Harvard law grads that have had to accept 60K govt positions because they didn't get better offers.
Pretty sure that you are trolling, but FTFY.
Not sure if it's a long term trend, but Stanford posted the best employment stats out of HYS for the class of 2010. Also, many policy oriented students above the median at HYS compete fiercely for government positions that pays 60K; I don't think you realize the highly sought-after nature of those government positions.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:40 pm
by dolphin
splitbrain wrote:dolphin wrote:rad lulz wrote:
Dude the economy is shit and people would punch their own mom in the face for a 60k govt position. Plus with H's LRAP? That's an awesome outcome.
This is why I really question the intelligence of people (myself included) applying to law school with the current legal market. Is a transcript with straight passes from Stanford really better than one with passes and honors from Boalt?
Not necessarily, but what relevance does that have in your decision? You can't predict what will happen so it's better to weigh what happens to the median student from each school.
True, but I like to look at every possible eventuality. Even if it is extremely unlikely that I will receive straight Ps, I want to consider the worst case scenario. What would my employment prospects look like as a Stanford graduate with straight Ps and average networking skills?
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:01 pm
by LSATmakesMeNeurotic
dolphin wrote:splitbrain wrote:dolphin wrote:rad lulz wrote:
Dude the economy is shit and people would punch their own mom in the face for a 60k govt position. Plus with H's LRAP? That's an awesome outcome.
This is why I really question the intelligence of people (myself included) applying to law school with the current legal market. Is a transcript with straight passes from Stanford really better than one with passes and honors from Boalt?
Not necessarily, but what relevance does that have in your decision? You can't predict what will happen so it's better to weigh what happens to the median student from each school.
True, but I like to look at every possible eventuality. Even if it is extremely unlikely that I will receive straight Ps, I want to consider the worst case scenario. What would my employment prospects look like as a Stanford graduate with straight Ps and average networking skills?
Better than those of a berk student with the same characteristics.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:12 pm
by dolphin
LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:
Better than those of a berk student with the same characteristics.
Of course. Please be more specific. What kind of job prospects would the straight P Stanford grad have?
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:23 pm
by quiver
dolphin wrote:LSATmakesMeNeurotic wrote:
Better than those of a berk student with the same characteristics.
Of course. Please be more specific. What kind of job prospects would the straight P Stanford grad have?
Who cares? You are comparing Stanford and Berkeley; you judge them against each other: straight Ps at Stanford is better than straight Ps at Berkeley. Barring big money at Berkeley or some other rare circumstance Stanford is TCR between these two schools.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:26 pm
by 071816
No rational human being would pick Berkeley in this situation.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:31 pm
by t14fanboy
Go to Berk.
Re: Stanford vs Berkeley
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:37 pm
by splitbrain
OP asks for specifics? I shall deliver specifics.
Employment data for Class of 2010 9 months after graduation:
Unemployed and seeking:
Stanford: 0 (1 graduate with unknown info)
Berkeley: 11/296 (3.7%)
Employed at law firms with 250+ attorneys:
Stanford: ~84/174 (48.5%)
Berkeley: 141/296 (47.6%)
Clerkships:
Stanford: ~54/174 (31%, 51/54 federal)
Berkeley: 26/296 (8.8%, 24/26 federal)
It's also worth mentioning that Berekely also had 11/296 graduates in part time positions whereas Stanford had 0. Both are outstanding schools with outstanding placement, but Stanford's clerkship placement really sets it apart.