Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

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Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

UHLC
20
59%
Baylor
14
41%
 
Total votes: 34

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Titleist
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Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Titleist » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:45 pm

I am having a difficult time deciding between the two schools.

They both have their pros and cons. For what it's worth I'm leaning towards UH- the price difference is making this decision close. If COA was the same this would not be an issue.


ETA- Totals are scholarships.
Last edited by Titleist on Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby flem » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:50 pm

Is that total COA? Or scholarship?

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Titleist
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Titleist » Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:24 pm

flem wrote:Is that total COA? Or scholarship?


Scholarship.

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Titleist
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Titleist » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:59 pm

Doing quick-rounded-interest less- math here are the raw figures.

Baylor tuition is 42k a year + 30k a year scholarship makes 12k x 3 = 36k total
UH tuition is 28k + 5k a year- 23k x 3 = 69k total

I'm looking at a 33k difference after three years. So I guess the question is, is UH worth 33k more than Baylor? I believe after soul searching it is. Can anyone say otherwise?


relevant- living expenses will be covered from savings/family.

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby kalvano » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Baylor is awful. Law school already makes you want to crawl into a dark hole and cover yourself with a blanket and rock while sucking your thumb and mumbling. Baylor will just make you want to alternate between sucking your thumb and cutting yourself.

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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby shoeshine » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:30 pm

Neither.

Is retaking an option?

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futurejdgirl
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby futurejdgirl » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:42 pm

kalvano wrote:Baylor is awful. Law school already makes you want to crawl into a dark hole and cover yourself with a blanket and rock while sucking your thumb and mumbling. Baylor will just make you want to alternate between sucking your thumb and cutting yourself.



Just curious, why is Baylor awful? It's one of the schools I'm considering because I received a substantial scholarship from them as well.

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b.gump81
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby b.gump81 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:54 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:
kalvano wrote:Baylor is awful. Law school already makes you want to crawl into a dark hole and cover yourself with a blanket and rock while sucking your thumb and mumbling. Baylor will just make you want to alternate between sucking your thumb and cutting yourself.



Just curious, why is Baylor awful? It's one of the schools I'm considering because I received a substantial scholarship from them as well.


It was named the most competitive school by Princeton review for a reason. Students will hide books, tear out pages, not share notes, etc. Plus ive heard the required 3l advocacy course is completely unnecessary and hellish. I've never met a baylor law student that liked their school or was anything but miserable

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Titleist
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Titleist » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:58 pm

shoeshine wrote:Neither.

Is retaking an option?

This was my retake.

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby kalvano » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:46 pm

b.gump81 wrote:
futurejdgirl wrote:
kalvano wrote:Baylor is awful. Law school already makes you want to crawl into a dark hole and cover yourself with a blanket and rock while sucking your thumb and mumbling. Baylor will just make you want to alternate between sucking your thumb and cutting yourself.



Just curious, why is Baylor awful? It's one of the schools I'm considering because I received a substantial scholarship from them as well.


It was named the most competitive school by Princeton review for a reason. Students will hide books, tear out pages, not share notes, etc. Plus ive heard the required 3l advocacy course is completely unnecessary and hellish. I've never met a baylor law student that liked their school or was anything but miserable



Also, job prospects are dismal. And, subjective, but Waco is not a pleasant place by most standards. And keep in mind, by saying "don't go to Baylor," I am conversely saying "do go to Houston," which is almost physically painful to say because Houston (the city) is terrible.

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futurejdgirl
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby futurejdgirl » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:06 pm

kalvano wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:
futurejdgirl wrote:
kalvano wrote:Baylor is awful. Law school already makes you want to crawl into a dark hole and cover yourself with a blanket and rock while sucking your thumb and mumbling. Baylor will just make you want to alternate between sucking your thumb and cutting yourself.



Just curious, why is Baylor awful? It's one of the schools I'm considering because I received a substantial scholarship from them as well.


It was named the most competitive school by Princeton review for a reason. Students will hide books, tear out pages, not share notes, etc. Plus ive heard the required 3l advocacy course is completely unnecessary and hellish. I've never met a baylor law student that liked their school or was anything but miserable



Also, job prospects are dismal. And, subjective, but Waco is not a pleasant place by most standards. And keep in mind, by saying "don't go to Baylor," I am conversely saying "do go to Houston," which is almost physically painful to say because Houston (the city) is terrible.


I agree about the Waco part. I'm from Texas and I hate even driving through the city or stopping by a gas station there. Really weird people... racist ones :/ however, Dallas and Austin are both fun cities, and are only 1.5 hours away. So you're not COMPLETELY out there in the middle of nowhere. But, definitely visit and see for yourself.

Job prospects might be bad, but if you have connections or ties in Texas, you can make it work. I know and have seen plenty practicing lawyers who graduated from Baylor. Granted, they may have graduated before the recession, but my point is that Baylor does have a solid reputation in Texas.

As for the happiness factor... don't know much to say about it. But I do suppose barely paying anything for law school could make someone quite happy. :wink:

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby kalvano » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:22 pm

futurejdgirl wrote:Job prospects might be bad, but if you have connections or ties in Texas, you can make it work. I know and have seen plenty practicing lawyers who graduated from Baylor. Granted, they may have graduated before the recession, but my point is that Baylor does have a solid reputation in Texas.


You just kind of glossed over the most important thing here. Baylor is, maybe, the 4th-best law school in Texas. It has no natural market that it serves. You're screwed for semester internships. Anything that was important pre-2008 is no longer really valid.

futurejdgirl wrote:As for the happiness factor... don't know much to say about it. But I do suppose barely paying anything for law school could make someone quite happy. :wink:


Until you realize that, free or not, you wasted three years of life at a miserable, awful place and have not much to show for it, especially no real job prospects.

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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:44 pm

You want to work in Houston? If not, go to Baylor. Don't listen to Kalvano he seems to have an axe to grind.

Baylor had better employment than SMU for 2010. Look it up. Baylor has a rep score of 3.4, short only of SMU (3.5) and UT (4.1).

People who don't like small-town Texas can't imagine going to a Texas school that isn't UT/SMU/UH. That is great, but that is only subset of potential opinions.

Baylor is certainly not objectively bad. Visit and see what you think. I hate Waco, but maybe you won't. Small-Mid law in all four metro areas in Texas are possible from Baylor. Assuming you don't have a horrible personality, just network and hustle and you will land something.

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kalvano
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby kalvano » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:21 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:You want to work in Houston? If not, go to Baylor. Don't listen to Kalvano he seems to have an axe to grind.

Baylor had better employment than SMU for 2010. Look it up. Baylor has a rep score of 3.4, short only of SMU (3.5) and UT (4.1).

People who don't like small-town Texas can't imagine going to a Texas school that isn't UT/SMU/UH. That is great, but that is only subset of potential opinions.

Baylor is certainly not objectively bad. Visit and see what you think. I hate Waco, but maybe you won't. Small-Mid law in all four metro areas in Texas are possible from Baylor. Assuming you don't have a horrible personality, just network and hustle and you will land something.



Your employment numbers that you claimed are "actual numbers" are horseshit, as I posted in the other thread.

My dislike of Baylor has nothing to do with it being in small-town Texas; I live in a small town. But Waco is considered by most people to be particularly bad.

Barring that, Baylor would be a terrible choice if it were located in the best city on Earth due to its policies and the way they treat their students.

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wallflower1987
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby wallflower1987 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:41 am

Titleist wrote:I am having a difficult time deciding between the two schools.

They both have their pros and cons. For what it's worth I'm leaning towards UH- the price difference is making this decision close. If COA was the same this would not be an issue.


ETA- Totals are scholarships.


Just accidentally clicked Baylor... Meant Houston.... sorry. Baylor is super competitive and it's Waco vs. Houston... I don't know, but I would say Houston.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:28 pm

Baylor trains exceptional lawyers. However, each Baylor grad I've talked to freely tells me how terrible Baylor Law was. Not terrible as to the quality of the education; terrible as in work load, competiveness, and 3L practice court.

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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby bartleby » Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:49 pm

Where are you now? $33k is a lot of money but over 3 years I don't think it's a killer. Never been to Waco or Baylor but I heard Baylor ungrad chicks are really hot. This could just be a rumor, however.

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Titleist
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Titleist » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:30 pm

Where am I now in re to debt or location? I will answer both- I have zero debt and and I'm in DFW right now. Getting a job in Houston or DFW is not really a deciding factor. I would be happy with either one. I would however, prefer DFW but it's not a deciding factor.

I was talking to a family friend who is a Baylor alum and he recommended Baylor and says his firm and similar firm prefers Baylor law over other schools because of the 3L year. Seems like it is tough but you come out stronger.


I wish there were more Baylor students on here to provide insight.


ETA- Baylor might have good coeds- doubt they are as good looking as mine 8)

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wallflower1987
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby wallflower1987 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:39 pm

Titleist wrote:Where am I now in re to debt or location? I will answer both- I have zero debt and and I'm in DFW right now. Getting a job in Houston or DFW is not really a deciding factor. I would be happy with either one. I would however, prefer DFW but it's not a deciding factor.

I was talking to a family friend who is a Baylor alum and he recommended Baylor and says his firm and similar firm prefers Baylor law over other schools because of the 3L year. Seems like it is tough but you come out stronger.


I wish there were more Baylor students on here to provide insight.


ETA- Baylor might have good coeds- doubt they are as good looking as mine 8)


If you have no debt now, I would say the debt is pretty much a non-factor. If you are certain you want DFW, I would say go Baylor and don't look back. Also depends on where you want to spend your time... I will say that I am from the upper Midwest, and I never even knew Houston had a law school a year ago... Baylor on the other hand is legendary. That is not always a good thing. They are consistently ranked as one of the most competitive law schools in the country. Keep that in mind if you are facing stipulations on those scholarships. Overall, I think this decision comes down to where you want to spend three years of law school. If I had to pick one of the schools based on what you have described, I would say go to Baylor and be prepared to bust your ass for three years. Houston would get you back to Dallas, and for cheaper, but I can't see ANY firm in DFW preferring Houston over Baylor. I can see the reverse happening. Anyway that's my take, fwiw.

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StarLightSpectre
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby StarLightSpectre » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:09 pm

Titleist wrote:ETA- Baylor might have good coeds- doubt they are as good looking as mine 8)



What I got from this thread.

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Prospecta8571
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Prospecta8571 » Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:29 pm

holdencaulfield wrote:Baylor trains exceptional lawyers. However, each Baylor grad I've talked to freely tells me how terrible Baylor Law was. Not terrible as to the quality of the education; terrible as in work load, competiveness, and 3L practice court.


This. I have had friends go through Baylor law and those that did not suffer from some sort of mental breakdown were in the minority. It could make you stronger, but to what end? Learning everything at such a brutal pace allied with cut-throat competitiveness does not make for the best environment to absorb and study the law, in my opinion. That being said, Baylor will give you a top-notch education and you will have plenty of job opportunities within the Dallas area. My friends did mention that the religious fanaticism was not really present in the law school, which was a relief when I heard it. Baylor's campus is also a heck of a lot prettier that UH's, and the cost of living is cheaper in Waco.

UH carries a lot of weight. There are plenty of big law partners that went to UH. Also if I had to live in Waco for three years of my life I think I would just quit law school. I feel the same way about Lubbock. Have you stayed in Waco for an extended period of time? I have, and you can only go to Common Grounds and walk the suspension bridge so many times before it gets stale. That saving grace is that is is only an hour and a half from Dallas and Austin. Houston at least has a legitimate zoo, museums, and is an hour from the beach.

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Titleist
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Titleist » Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:44 pm

How big of a deal is the 33k difference between the two schools.

The way I look at it- if I'm going to already be in debt what is 33k more? Is this a bad idea?

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:19 am

I think over the course of a career the 33k is manageable. What is your total debt?

Have you visited both law schools?

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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby zanzbar » Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:50 am

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 This is one of the rankings I have been paying some attention to and Houston seems to remain stagnant around 30 offers a year which is not bad for a T2. If I remember from a thread correctly these are the numbers from the class that were hit the hardest by the 08 recession, so these numbers should get better across the board in coming years. Also, Houston is in the process of cutting class sizes, at least that what is they said to our group on the tour earlier this month. I don't think I have seen Baylor on this ranking, so that means their placement at these biglaw firms was below 6.5% in the worst year and below 10.5% the year before that. I am not sure if you are interested in big law but if so thought this might be an interesting addition to your decision.

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Re: Baylor (90k) v. Houston (15k)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:02 pm

in case OP has a different definition of "big law," I would advise that many large big law like firms are not in the NLJ 250. Just look at UT-- many years half the class cleared 160k, but only 25% were in "big law" according to the NLJ 250.

Houston metro has NLJ 250 firms, but UH does not necessarily have better placement in large law firms than many other T2s. Probably better than Baylor, though..




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