Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

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smeagol
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Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby smeagol » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:13 pm

My apologies, as I know that there is a very similar question on the board, and have seen the replies. I would have just joined that thread but didnt want any confusion.

im a 2010 college grad (3.3, 163). Im from lower westchester and work in the city part time, but not doing any kind of work that I am considering continuing (porter). I commute every day, so im used to NYC transit. Family just got a new home in yonkers, so I have limited my options (all are TT) to staying at home (cheaper, happy to stay in NY where my family and friends are).

Also, Im on Fordham waitlist, fwiw.

Im trying to gauge the difference between these BK and Cardozo, all things considered: job prospects, debt, etc.

I will be living at home to attend either school, but travelling to brooklyn would be about another 35 minutes, each way.

Im deciding between approx 100K for BK debt against approx 120K Dozo debt. Yikes.

Thanks in advance for your input.

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:18 pm

I would go with Dozo. It is basically a T1 school and unlike Brooklyn you have a shot at biglaw. If you check out the reported salary distribution on lawschooltransparency Dozo is the clear choice

MrAnon
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:20 pm

It wouldn't be so hard to find fellow porters 10 or 20 years into the job who are doing as well as law grads from this caliber school 10 to 20 years out. So don't knock what you are doing with the idea that law school is going to be this great savior. You could really end up missing your job down the road. I would go to whichever school leaves you with less debt. I'd also consider continuing to work during the day and go to one of these schools at night. Neither one is really the type of place where you want to make a full time commitment. If you don't end up in the top 10% after 1L, and there is 90% chance you will not, then you will wish you had a job and income stream for the balance of law school.

MrAnon
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:21 pm

john1990 wrote:I would go with Dozo. It is basically a T1 school and unlike Brooklyn you have a shot at biglaw. If you check out the reported salary distribution on lawschooltransparency Dozo is the clear choice


Its basically the 4th best law school in an 8 mile radius. I would be more careful about it.

smeagol
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby smeagol » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:25 pm

MrAnon wrote:It wouldn't be so hard to find fellow porters 10 or 20 years into the job who are doing as well as law grads from this caliber school 10 to 20 years out.


yea, i agree with you, and am not knocking it; ive been lucky to have it these last couple of years. however, i cannot see myself being happy doing it for the next 5 years, let alone 10 to 20. law is definitely not a savior to me at all. thanks for ur honest assessment

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laxbrah420
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby laxbrah420 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:28 pm

i tried to look up what a porter is. it seems to describe a luggage carrier, a doorman, or a guy at a restaurant who fixes things inside and outside and stacks deliveries... if it's not too intrusive, what does a job like that pay?

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:32 pm

MrAnon wrote:
john1990 wrote:I would go with Dozo. It is basically a T1 school and unlike Brooklyn you have a shot at biglaw. If you check out the reported salary distribution on lawschooltransparency Dozo is the clear choice


Its basically the 4th best law school in an 8 mile radius. I would be more careful about it.


I agree, but there are also quite a few big businesses in that same 8 mile radius

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rocon7383
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby rocon7383 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:40 pm

smeagol wrote:My apologies, as I know that there is a very similar question on the board, and have seen the replies. I would have just joined that thread but didnt want any confusion.

im a 2010 college grad (3.3, 163). Im from lower westchester and work in the city part time, but not doing any kind of work that I am considering continuing (porter). I commute every day, so im used to NYC transit. Family just got a new home in yonkers, so I have limited my options (all are TT) to staying at home (cheaper, happy to stay in NY where my family and friends are).

Also, Im on Fordham waitlist, fwiw.

Im trying to gauge the difference between these BK and Cardozo, all things considered: job prospects, debt, etc.

I will be living at home to attend either school, but travelling to brooklyn would be about another 35 minutes, each way.

Im deciding between approx 100K for BK debt against approx 120K Dozo debt. Yikes.

Thanks in advance for your input.


I would not spend that amount on either. Also, that commute will be brutal to BLS. I know it gets said a lot, but retake. Both are really, really bad investments. You'd be better served getting your licenses at a trade school on the cheap and trying to become a Super. 60/70k with free housing in NYC? Pretty nice to me.

MrAnon
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:33 pm

rocon7383 wrote:
smeagol wrote:My apologies, as I know that there is a very similar question on the board, and have seen the replies. I would have just joined that thread but didnt want any confusion.

im a 2010 college grad (3.3, 163). Im from lower westchester and work in the city part time, but not doing any kind of work that I am considering continuing (porter). I commute every day, so im used to NYC transit. Family just got a new home in yonkers, so I have limited my options (all are TT) to staying at home (cheaper, happy to stay in NY where my family and friends are).

Also, Im on Fordham waitlist, fwiw.

Im trying to gauge the difference between these BK and Cardozo, all things considered: job prospects, debt, etc.

I will be living at home to attend either school, but travelling to brooklyn would be about another 35 minutes, each way.

Im deciding between approx 100K for BK debt against approx 120K Dozo debt. Yikes.

Thanks in advance for your input.


I would not spend that amount on either. Also, that commute will be brutal to BLS. I know it gets said a lot, but retake. Both are really, really bad investments. You'd be better served getting your licenses at a trade school on the cheap and trying to become a Super. 60/70k with free housing in NYC? Pretty nice to me.


I second this. Be a super, work your way up. Think being a porter sucks? That's fine but so do all entry level jobs. Gotta start somewhere so keep doing it but try to get into white collar building management. Better lifestyle in the long run and better life period.

rad lulz
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:52 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

srfngdd6
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby srfngdd6 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:58 pm

john1990 wrote:I would go with Dozo. It is basically a T1 school and unlike Brooklyn you have a shot at biglaw. If you check out the reported salary distribution on lawschooltransparency Dozo is the clear choice


this is just bad advice...its the fourth best school in ny plus the tope of the class from every school on the east coast..law school transparency data is from 2009...you need to be top 10% at either school for big law

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:53 pm

srfngdd6 wrote:
john1990 wrote:I would go with Dozo. It is basically a T1 school and unlike Brooklyn you have a shot at biglaw. If you check out the reported salary distribution on lawschooltransparency Dozo is the clear choice


this is just bad advice...its the fourth best school in ny plus the tope of the class from every school on the east coast..law school transparency data is from 2009...you need to be top 10% at either school for big law


:lol:

Yes Dozo is only the 4th best school, but NYC has enough business so that Dozo still does well. In 2009, Dozo reported that 20% of the class was placed into the NLJ 250, Brooklyn reported 0% I doubt Brooklyn competes any better now than it did in 2009.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681

rad lulz
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 29, 2012 9:54 pm

,
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:00 pm

Anecdotally, both Brooklyn and Cardozo grads post-Lehman are fucked, with Cardozo grads perhaps ever so slightly less fucked. I wouldn't go to either. If you have to go to law school, maybe try to get a full ride at St. Johns. If you just absolutely have to go to one, then Brooklyn because it's cheaper. But I don't endorse that decision, don't get me wrong.

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:07 pm

That's expected since the economy has always improved with time, barring occasional recessions. If you look at 2008 you'l see that Dozo still reports 15% more of the classes salaries. The point is that Dozo>Brooklyn. Also, Brooklyn clearly offers 0% chance at biglaw

edit- Dozo has better numbers in 2008 than 2009 according to LST. This might indicate better NLJ250 placement
Last edited by john1990 on Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:10 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

srfngdd6
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby srfngdd6 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:13 pm

john1990 wrote:
srfngdd6 wrote:
john1990 wrote:I would go with Dozo. It is basically a T1 school and unlike Brooklyn you have a shot at biglaw. If you check out the reported salary distribution on lawschooltransparency Dozo is the clear choice


this is just bad advice...its the fourth best school in ny plus the tope of the class from every school on the east coast..law school transparency data is from 2009...you need to be top 10% at either school for big law


:lol:

Yes Dozo is only the 4th best school, but NYC has enough business so that Dozo still does well. In 2009, Dozo reported that 20% of the class was placed into the NLJ 250, Brooklyn reported 0% I doubt Brooklyn competes any better now than it did in 2009.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150681


i dont think cardozo is that bad of a school but i would personally take the extra coin at brooklyn and you have an equal shot at big law at both schools basically

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:39 pm

john1990 wrote:That's expected since the economy has always improved with time, barring occasional recessions. If you look at 2008 you'l see that Dozo still reports 15% more of the classes salaries. The point is that Dozo>Brooklyn. Also, Brooklyn clearly offers 0% chance at biglaw

edit- Dozo has better numbers in 2008 than 2009 according to LST. This might indicate better NLJ250 placement

You are vastly overstating the differences in biglaw placement. The difference is, at the absolute most, more like 7-8% at Cardozo and 5-6% at Brooklyn. Don't go in expecting to get biglaw from either school because the odds are overwhelmingly against you.

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:14 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
john1990 wrote:That's expected since the economy has always improved with time, barring occasional recessions. If you look at 2008 you'l see that Dozo still reports 15% more of the classes salaries. The point is that Dozo>Brooklyn. Also, Brooklyn clearly offers 0% chance at biglaw

edit- Dozo has better numbers in 2008 than 2009 according to LST. This might indicate better NLJ250 placement

You are vastly overstating the differences in biglaw placement. The difference is, at the absolute most, more like 7-8% at Cardozo and 5-6% at Brooklyn. Don't go in expecting to get biglaw from either school because the odds are overwhelmingly against you.


If you check the stickied 2009 stats in this index very index, or click my link, you will see its 20% dozo - 0%brooklyn for 2009

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:20 pm

rad lulz wrote:
john1990 wrote:That's expected since the economy has always improved with time, barring occasional recessions. If you look at 2008 you'l see that Dozo still reports 15% more of the classes salaries. The point is that Dozo>Brooklyn. Also, Brooklyn clearly offers 0% chance at biglaw

The legal economy is NOT going back to unsustainable bubble hiring by the time you apply for a biglawl jerb (OCI 2013).


I agree, but brooklyn is still no good for biglaw, dozo has shown that it can be, and we don't have any stats which say that it isn't any longer placing in the NLJ 250

Here's dozo for 2010

http://cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContentDisp ... ntid=20254

they report 30% placement into firms of 500 employees or more and among this 30% an average salary of 155,000

These grads would have had their OCI in fall of 2008

MrAnon
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:29 pm

*
Last edited by MrAnon on Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrAnon
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:33 pm

john1990 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
john1990 wrote:That's expected since the economy has always improved with time, barring occasional recessions. If you look at 2008 you'l see that Dozo still reports 15% more of the classes salaries. The point is that Dozo>Brooklyn. Also, Brooklyn clearly offers 0% chance at biglaw

The legal economy is NOT going back to unsustainable bubble hiring by the time you apply for a biglawl jerb (OCI 2013).


I agree, but brooklyn is still no good for biglaw, dozo has shown that it can be, and we don't have any stats which say that it isn't any longer placing in the NLJ 250

Here's dozo for 2010

http://cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContentDisp ... ntid=20254

they report 30% placement into firms of 500 employees or more and among this 30% an average salary of 155,000

These grads would have had their OCI in fall of 2008


That's 14% of the graduating class if I calculate it correctly. 86% of the graduating did not make that.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:35 pm

Look dude, knowing half a dozen people or so at each of these schools, they are roughly indistinguishable, and no more than a dozen or so people per class are getting biglaw these days at either of them. Cardozo seems to have bigger aspirations about being a part of the corporate legal community but is still nowhere near the playing field, while Brooklyn seems to have fewer delusions of grandeur but a bit more of an established reputation among NYC personal injury shops and such. Functionally they are on the same plane.

Edit: You're also wrong to say that Brooklyn has 0% biglaw placement, there are at least a couple of BLS alums in just about every major biglaw office in NYC, even recent alums. It sounds to me like you are seeing the world through Cardozo-colored glasses. Nobody here is out to ruin your day, but you should really stop and take a hard look at what you're signing up for.

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top30man
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby top30man » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:47 pm

MrAnon wrote:
john1990 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
john1990 wrote:That's expected since the economy has always improved with time, barring occasional recessions. If you look at 2008 you'l see that Dozo still reports 15% more of the classes salaries. The point is that Dozo>Brooklyn. Also, Brooklyn clearly offers 0% chance at biglaw

The legal economy is NOT going back to unsustainable bubble hiring by the time you apply for a biglawl jerb (OCI 2013).


I agree, but brooklyn is still no good for biglaw, dozo has shown that it can be, and we don't have any stats which say that it isn't any longer placing in the NLJ 250

Here's dozo for 2010

http://cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContentDisp ... ntid=20254

they report 30% placement into firms of 500 employees or more and among this 30% an average salary of 155,000

These grads would have had their OCI in fall of 2008


That's 14% of the graduating class if I calculate it correctly. 86% of the graduating did not make that.

Agreed. Median at either one of these schools is a scary place.

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john1990
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Re: Cardozo 10K schol V Brooklyn 20K schol

Postby john1990 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:48 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:Look dude, knowing half a dozen people or so at each of these schools, they are roughly indistinguishable, and no more than a dozen or so people per class are getting biglaw these days at either of them. Cardozo seems to have bigger aspirations about being a part of the corporate legal community but is still nowhere near the playing field, while Brooklyn seems to have fewer delusions of grandeur but a bit more of an established reputation among NYC personal injury shops and such. Functionally they are on the same plane.

Edit: You're also wrong to say that Brooklyn has 0% biglaw placement, there are at least a couple of BLS alums in just about every major biglaw office in NYC, even recent alums. It sounds to me like you are seeing the world through Cardozo-colored glasses. Nobody here is out to ruin your day, but you should really stop and take a hard look at what you're signing up for.


I'm basing this on stats from the following thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681

If you scroll down you will see that they have brooklyn law at 0% for the NLJ 250

This thread has been stickied here for a long time and i have come to trust it.

Your comments prompted me to search more and i found this

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/tag/nlj-250/

That is for the class of 2011. Yeshiva is at 11.8% and Brooklyn at 6.59%
This is during the peak of the recession




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