Is DU worth it?

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flem
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby flem » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:44 am

romothesavior wrote: especially one that is dominated by a T1 like CU


Not true at all, though they may have a slight edge. Both schools have pros and cons over eachother. CU and DU alumni are both well represented in the legal community, and both are fiercely loyal to their grads.

OP, feel free to read my post on the DU open house in this thread and PM me if you have any questions.

station4
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby station4 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:02 am

Husker-6432 wrote:
Nelson wrote:You should retake and not waste that 3.9 on these schools.


A retake for the next cycle is pretty much out of the question for me. I have pretty much tailored my degrees (BA in Econ, Hist, and Phil) toward going to law school, so finding work for next year may prove difficult. Furthermore, a full time job would be necessary to pitch the idea to my parents, because they are helping me with my college costs and I don't see them running with this idea. Besides, I'm not sure how much I would be able to raise my test score. I was practice testing pretty consistently around 166 which I feel would translate to about an ideal, real test score of 164. If I were to score this, I'm not sure if the difference in scholarship money would be substantial enough to justify a year out of school.



As a low GPA applicant (3.1), it pains me to see high GPA (3.8/3.9) people settle for schools or scholarships they could improve upon substantially. You obviously worked hard in college and should be very proud. Don't settle for options that are beneath your potential. Think about the hardest class you took in undergrad and the time and effort you put into it. Now think about the relatively small effect that had on your overall GPA and thus law school admission compared with your LSAT score. If you put in the same amount of time and effort on an LSAT retake, you would almost certainly score several points higher. I moved from a 164 to a 167. That is not a tremendous bump and like you, I thought I had done pretty well the first time around. Three points opened up a whole new level of schools for me and will probably save me about $60,000 in money over three years of law school.

Also, seriously, get a job. You have spent the past 16-17 years in school. When you are done with law school, you will be working as a lawyer, not generally regarded as the world's most interesting profession, for the rest of your life. You are young, single (not married, at least), mobile, and seem to have some parental financial support (I made a couple of assumptions you can disabuse me of if you like), so your potential employment options are about as wide-open as they can be. Bank that GPA, retake the LSAT in June after studying hard, and start looking for a job that will allow you to save some cash and spend some time away from school doing something interesting.

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Br3v
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby Br3v » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:07 am

You have a 3.9? You know how many people ppl on these boards would love that. Retake, break 170, enjoy Yale/Harvard/Stanford

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Davidbentley
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby Davidbentley » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:25 am

No DU is not worth it. You can do almost anything for a year and not hurt your chances. If you don't retake, tinkerbell dies.

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:38 am

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sunynp
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby sunynp » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:40 am

R86 wrote:Denver for 35k is a great deal. If your parents are willing to foot the bill for cost of living expenses and your rent for a nice apartment near campus, I vote go ahead and enjoy the next three years in this beautiful city.

If you'll be happy working in Denver, and you're willing to put in the effort to be top 15% of the class, I think you'll be just fine going to DU.

Are you in law school? This is just stupid.

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:53 am

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby flem » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:00 am

R86 wrote:
sunynp wrote:
R86 wrote:Denver for 35k is a great deal. If your parents are willing to foot the bill for cost of living expenses and your rent for a nice apartment near campus, I vote go ahead and enjoy the next three years in this beautiful city.

If you'll be happy working in Denver, and you're willing to put in the effort to be top 15% of the class, I think you'll be just fine going to DU.

Are you in law school? This is just stupid.


Will be applying next cycle.

Explain what's stupid about what I said. I'm willing to defend my opinion that if you can get a law degree for 35k - possibly even less, if you're willing to work hard applying for additional scholarships - in Denver, where there are and will be people who favor Denver graduates, and you can have your bills paid for, then it's not a bad proposition.


I think he was referring to the 15% thing

CanadianWolf
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:03 am

OP: Your initial post was a bit misleading in that it stated DU law "at a total cost of 35K". Apparently your cost is higher since your family is offering to pay living expenses for three years. Assuming that living expenses run about $18,000 a year, then your total cost is $35,000 plus $54,000 or about $90,000 total. Is this correct ? If so, then you should strongly consider retaking the LSAT as your 3.9 GPA along with a 164 or higher LSAT (versus your current 162/3.9) should yield substantial scholarship offers.

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:04 am

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:09 am

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ColtsFan88
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby ColtsFan88 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:58 am

R86 wrote:Stupid to think he could make it to the top 15% of the class? Or stupid for me to choose that as an arbitrary cut-off for "top" rather than using top 10% or something else?

If the former, I don't see why he couldn't do it. A good friend's sister is a 3L at DU this year and is near the top of her class, and she's no genius.

If the latter, my bad. Top 10%. You get the idea.

I said that if he chose DU, worked hard, and did well, he'll be fine. I stand by that.


No one is saying he cannot be in the top 15%. Only that he has a 15% chance to be in the top 15%. I personally wouldn't bet on a 15% chance.

He should retake. He could literally be going to YHS next year.

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:03 pm

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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skers
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby skers » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:03 pm

Husker-6432 wrote:In terms of ties, I'm not sure if it makes much of difference but the ties I have to UIUC are that I lived in Illinois (central, not Chicago) for about 14 years with breaks in those years and my parents currently live there. But, I'm currently in Nebraska for undergrad and there is a strong possibility that my parents will be moving overseas within the next year thus eliminating at least one tie. The reason why I choose DU (wait-listed at CU btw) was because Denver s a city I can see myself living in (essentially the same reason for wanting to end up in Chicago as well). Just wanted to know if this would have any influence in demonstrating a tie to Denver.


First and most importantly, Go Big Red.

You're unlikely to get a job in Denver unless you go to DU or CU. However, outside of the select big lawl jobs available, I wouldn't feel great about my general job prospects without ties in the Mountain West.

lobolawyer
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby lobolawyer » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:06 pm

R86 wrote:
ColtsFan88 wrote:No one is saying he cannot be in the top 15%. Only that he has a 15% chance to be in the top 15%. I personally wouldn't bet on a 15% chance.

He should retake. He could literally be going to YHS next year.


I could be wrong, but his chances of retaking well enough for a shot at, and then being admitted to, YHS are probably significantly less than his chances of doing well at DU.

I personally wouldn't bet on it.


Exactly. Retake is generally good advice, but for OP it looks like poor advice.

1. OP indicated his parents might not cover cost of living in a year.

2. If OP is like the vast majority of retakers he won't improve the roughly 7 pts that it will take to make a significant difference.

3. Ppl are underestimating the impact that a potential larger pool of applicants might have next year. This is the worst year for applicants in a long time. There's no telling what the future might bring, and this goes both ways, but I always favor avoiding risk and debt. At 35k (w/o UG debt), DU is low cost/low risk.

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flem
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby flem » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:10 pm

lobolawyer wrote: This is the worst year for applicants in a long time


--ImageRemoved--

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sunynp
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby sunynp » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:12 pm

What is stupid?
1. OP is wasting his GPA and his parents money.
2. OP will be going to a school in a saturated market where he will compete with grads from CU, DU and returnees from t14 and other schools. OP knows nothing about this market and has no ties or connections. See the links I posted to campos' blog.
3. OP has no way to guarantee he will be the top 15% of the class or even above median. There is no amount of hard work that OPncan do that will guarantee him great grades.
4. If OP wants to leave Colorado, he will have a hard time with a very localized degree.
R86 wrote:
sunynp wrote:
R86 wrote:Denver for 35k is a great deal. If your parents are willing to foot the bill for cost of living expenses and your rent for a nice apartment near campus, I vote go ahead and enjoy the next three years in this beautiful city.

If you'll be happy working in Denver, and you're willing to put in the effort to be top 15% of the class, I think you'll be just fine going to DU.

Are you in law school? This is just stupid.


Will be applying next cycle.

Explain what's stupid about what I said. I'm willing to defend my opinion that if you can get a law degree for 35k - possibly even less, if you're willing to work hard applying for additional scholarships - in Denver, where there are and will be people who favor Denver graduates, and you can have your bills paid for, then it's not a bad proposition.

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flem
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby flem » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:14 pm

sunynp wrote: See the links I posted to campos' blog.


Paul Campos: Troll Genius strikes again!

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:31 pm

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Husker-6432
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby Husker-6432 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:41 pm

Husker-6432 wrote:Also, is it possible to pay my seat deposits for this cycle, sit for the test in June, and in the event of an increased score retract from this cycle and hold off until the next cycle?


I am prepared to start studying this minute if this is an option. I can reap all the benefits of a re-test if the score increases (all I am out is a seat deposit) and realistically suffer no costs (time and effort only) if my score stays the same. In my situation, if I can demonstrate that I would be able to save, at minimum, a year of living costs outside of school, then I believe I could retain financial support from my parents.

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RedBirds2011
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby RedBirds2011 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:54 pm

ColtsFan88 wrote:
R86 wrote:Stupid to think he could make it to the top 15% of the class? Or stupid for me to choose that as an arbitrary cut-off for "top" rather than using top 10% or something else?

If the former, I don't see why he couldn't do it. A good friend's sister is a 3L at DU this year and is near the top of her class, and she's no genius.

If the latter, my bad. Top 10%. You get the idea.

I said that if he chose DU, worked hard, and did well, he'll be fine. I stand by that.


No one is saying he cannot be in the top 15%. Only that he has a 15% chance to be in the top 15%. I personally wouldn't bet on a 15% chance.

He should retake. He could literally be going to YHS next year.



While he should retake, and while there is randomness to it, saying he has a 15 percent chance of being in the top 15 percent is a bit over simplistic. I really don't think law students get statistics.

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sunynp
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby sunynp » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:03 pm

The links I posted to the blog, if you read them, deal specifically with the Colorado job market. I think that should be of interest to OP.

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R86
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby R86 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:11 pm

:D
Last edited by R86 on Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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flem
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby flem » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:18 pm

sunynp wrote:The links I posted to the blog, if you read them, deal specifically with the Colorado job market. I think that should be of interest to OP.


I'm not saying Campos is wrong, but those claims are exaggerated. This is a man who rallies against the very system he's a beneficiary of. He suckles on the teat of a school that he tells people isn't worth going to. Is he wrong? Not necessarily, but he's trying to gain publicity. He's a talking head.

Like anything else, take it with a grain of salt. Also remember how many people go to law school at CU without the intention of ever practicing law.

Edit: not to say that things are rosy. Far from it.

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Mr. Somebody
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Re: Is DU worth it?

Postby Mr. Somebody » Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:27 pm

flem wrote:
sunynp wrote:The links I posted to the blog, if you read them, deal specifically with the Colorado job market. I think that should be of interest to OP.


I'm not saying Campos is wrong, but those claims are exaggerated. This is a man who rallies against the very system he's a beneficiary of. He suckles on the teat of a school that he tells people isn't worth going to. Is he wrong? Not necessarily, but he's trying to gain publicity. He's a talking head.

Like anything else, take it with a grain of salt. Also remember how many people go to law school at CU without the intention of ever practicing law.

Edit: not to say that things are rosy. Far from it.


Is that just the hippie nature of Boulder? Why would you go to a law school without intention of practicing law?




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