Penn v. Texas Forum

[ACROOS170]

I posted a question about my choice several weeks ago so I thought I would post another poll with my current dilemma.

I'm a Texas resident so tuition is <$30k/year at UT. They raised my offer to $20,000/year. With that offer, I can safely say that I am choosing between Texas and Penn (unless H or S come in at 11th hour).

I have not yet received my aid offer from Penn so my question is 'At what $ offer from Penn should I choose Penn over this Texas offer?'

Preferences:
-A market salary is my primary goal (I have $40k in undergraduate debt, as well) or an Art III Clerkship
-Moderately averse to debt but would like to go to a school with national opportunities
-All things being equal, I'd prefer to practice in Dallas post-graduation but I will definitely go wherever the best opportunity is

[rad lulz]

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[ACROOS170]

Hey I got an idea. Instead of creating like a bunch of threads for your own situation, how about you wait for Penn money?

Hey I got an answer. My deposit is due at Texas in two weeks, so even if I got my offer from Penn tomorrow (and I anticipate it will be a week or two) I don't have a whole lot of time to decide.

[CanadianWolf]

Since you want to live & work in Dallas, Texas after law school, then Texas is the better choice regardless of Penn's offer.

[NoleMatt]

Since you want to live & work in Dallas, Texas after law school, then Texas is the better choice regardless of Penn's offer.

I think this is the correct answer, especially considering you can go to UT for less than $10k a year

[rad lulz]

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[yoyoyoyoyo]

I think Penn is the best choice if you want BigLaw. I'm a 3L at Penn, and with very few exceptions (I can think of 1), everyone I know got a BigLaw job. However, if you are interested in govt/PI, then I wouldn't choose Penn... we had an awful year this year with that

[HeavenWood]

How much debt are we talking? Penn at full sticker is 210k. What would 1/2 in-state tuition at UT be, about half that?

If you're Texas-or-bust, UT for sure. If you're strongly considering NYC or DC though, Penn may be worth the money (again, what sort of debt load are we looking at?), given the resulting additional cushion. FWIW, Penn works well with Texas ties.

[ACROOS170]

How much debt are we talking? Penn at full sticker is 210k. What would 1/2 in-state tuition at UT be, about half that?

If you're Texas-or-bust, UT for sure. If you're strongly considering NYC or DC though, Penn may be worth the money (again, what sort of debt load are we looking at?), given the resulting additional cushion. FWIW, Penn works well with Texas ties.

Penn debt + undergrad would equal roughly $250k (assuming they don't offer anything).
Texas debt + undergrad would equal roughly $135k

I think most people would agree that a Penn degree would lead to more opportunities - even in Texas. I just don't know if it is worth $100k+ more. Granted, if a Penn degree means a $30k/year more than a Texas degree, that difference would be made up in about 4 years.

I have ties with a boutique firm that pays above market value (interned multiple summers during undergrad) and they have both Penn grads and UT grads. However, it definitely isn't promised that I will get a job with them.

Given all of that, what do you think?

Thanks for the feedback

[ACROOS170]

I think Penn is the best choice if you want BigLaw. I'm a 3L at Penn, and with very few exceptions (I can think of 1), everyone I know got a BigLaw job. However, if you are interested in govt/PI, then I wouldn't choose Penn... we had an awful year this year with that

If I went to Penn, I would probably have to go private sector to pay off loans anyway. Also, what are the job prospects for the few Penn folks who don't get BigLaw? My biggest fear is taking out all of those loans and then being stuck with a private sector job that pays <$100k/year. Is that a legitimate fear or is it statistically improbable? The law school transparency data suggests that I shouldn't worry about it too much.

What do you think??? Thanks for the feedback!

[Nelson]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

[ACROOS170]

Hey I got an idea. Instead of creating like a bunch of threads for your own situation, how about you wait for Penn money?

Hey I got an answer. My deposit is due at Texas in two weeks, so even if I got my offer from Penn tomorrow (and I anticipate it will be a week or two) I don't have a whole lot of time to decide.

As per your last thread, consensus seemed to be that you have no business taking out $250k in loans ($210k plus $40k from UG) to go to Penn over Texas money. You may have to eat the Texas deposit if you REALLY want to see what kind of money you get out of Penn and give yourself time to attempt to negotiate.

I realize that I am probably going to have to eat that deposit. However, negotiating without much of a plan would not be prudent, in my opinion. Seems silly to suggest that this discussion isn't warranted, given the short amount of time that I'm dealing with. Agree to disagree, I guess.

[ACROOS170]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

If it seems like I am just trying to get people to justify taking out that much extra, I apologize. But I disagree. I'm really 50-50 right now. Like I mentioned in a previous post, some UT grads don't land very high paying jobs. If a Penn degree = $30k/year higher salary coming out, that difference in cost is made up relatively quickly. Obviously, the best situation is to go to Texas with scholly and land BigLaw. But that certainly isn't a given.

[Nelson]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

If it seems like I am just trying to get people to justify taking out that much extra, I apologize. But I disagree. I'm really 50-50 right now. Like I mentioned in a previous post, some UT grads don't land very high paying jobs. If a Penn degree = $30k/year higher salary coming out, that difference in cost is made up relatively quickly. Obviously, the best situation is to go to Texas with scholly and land BigLaw. But that certainly isn't a given.

I think you're overestimating the placement difference. It's not that large. Penn is not a guarantee of biglaw. And you're underestimating what a burden debt of that magnitude will be even on a 160k salary.

[HeavenWood]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

Agreed that it's not worth 100k extra, but like the others said, wait for Penn to make you an offer. Eat the deposit money if you have to.

[ACROOS170]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

Agreed that it's not worth 100k extra, but like the others said, wait for Penn to make you an offer. Eat the deposit money if you have to.

Noted. As previously stated, I plan on paying the deposit regardless. I agree that 100k is a huge difference. Given my time crunch, I am trying to determine how much more a Penn degree is worth (quantitatively and qualitatively) so that when/if Penn gives me an offer, I can make a quick and seamless decision. I have two weeks before the Texas deadline and four weeks before the Penn deadline. If Penn take 2-3 weeks to give me an offer, I don't have much time to decide... hence, the hypothetical poll.

How much more do you think a Penn degree is worth compared to a Texas degree?

[AreJay711]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

Agreed that it's not worth 100k extra, but like the others said, wait for Penn to make you an offer. Eat the deposit money if you have to.

Noted. As previously stated, I plan on paying the deposit regardless. I agree that 100k is a huge difference. Given my time crunch, I am trying to determine how much more a Penn degree is worth (quantitatively and qualitatively) so that when/if Penn gives me an offer, I can make a quick and seamless decision. I have two weeks before the Texas deadline and four weeks before the Penn deadline. If Penn take 2-3 weeks to give me an offer, I don't have much time to decide... hence, the hypothetical poll.

How much more do you think a Penn degree is worth compared to a Texas degree?

In Texas? $0 -- though there might be some slight bump in any particular city in TX since there are fewer Penn grads aiming for TX.

In NYC / DC / Chi? Up to $50k but that is probably on the outside.

[HeavenWood]

It's not worth 100k extra. UT is the rational choice. Asking over and over won't make Penn worth a quarter million dollars plus 8% interest.

Agreed that it's not worth 100k extra, but like the others said, wait for Penn to make you an offer. Eat the deposit money if you have to.

Noted. As previously stated, I plan on paying the deposit regardless. I agree that 100k is a huge difference. Given my time crunch, I am trying to determine how much more a Penn degree is worth (quantitatively and qualitatively) so that when/if Penn gives me an offer, I can make a quick and seamless decision. I have two weeks before the Texas deadline and four weeks before the Penn deadline. If Penn take 2-3 weeks to give me an offer, I don't have much time to decide... hence, the hypothetical poll.

How much more do you think a Penn degree is worth compared to a Texas degree?

Given that you seem receptive to the idea of having options in other areas, $50k?