Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

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mpalermo698
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Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:49 pm

I have limited my decisions down to WVU and Cleveland-Marshall. I am originally from Cleveland and would eventually like to practice there, though not necessarily right away. I went to undergrad in Wheeling, so I am familiar with Wheeling.

WVU seems to have the better education and better job prospects right out of college. Cleveland-Marshall is a good school, but rankings seem to mean a lot for no reason, not to mention the competition with other Ohio schools. I think that WVU has a better campus and student life, but I am just unsure of what is beneficial to me in the longrun.

Does anyone have any experience with one or both school, and could give me some tips. What are the chances of getting a job in Cleveland with a J.D. from WVU?

Thanks
Last edited by mpalermo698 on Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MachineLemon
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby MachineLemon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:53 pm

How much will each of these schools cost you? Tuition, housing, books...everything.

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:56 pm

Well, I am an Ohio resident, so tuition at CSU would cost me about 20 thousand. WVU would be about 30 thousand, because of out-of-state tuition. Books would be the same probably. Housing is cheaper in Morgantown than Cleveland, but that in-state tuition is a lot.

Everything I hear though seems to point that WVU has a better school than CSU, but it's hard to say.

rad lulz
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:59 pm

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MachineLemon
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby MachineLemon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:04 pm

mpalermo698 wrote:Well, I am an Ohio resident, so tuition at CSU would cost me about 20 thousand. WVU would be about 30 thousand, because of out-of-state tuition. Books would be the same probably. Housing is cheaper in Morgantown than Cleveland, but that in-state tuition is a lot.

Everything I hear though seems to point that WVU has a better school than CSU, but it's hard to say.


I assume this is cost per year. That means you're looking at between $120k and $150k in debt over three years. This is not what you want to hear, but neither of these schools is worth the price tag. You stand a significant chance of not finding a job, and an even greater chance of not finding a job that allows you to pay back your loans on time. You will likely be paying these loans for 25 years on IBR whether or not you find legal employment.

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Agreed. They labeled me as in-state though because they have a partial in-state thing if you went to a 4 year school in West Virginia. I'm waiting to see what my tuition will look like because they offer a lot of need based scholarships. I plan on joining the JAG corp after law school, so I'm hoping that they will either help me repay some of it, or that will give me the income to make a dent in my loans.

Law school isn't just something I want to do for a career, but rather just because it interests me, so I'm going to go no matter what, but my other choices such as John Marshall in Chicago and Loyola, which waitlisted me, are far more expensive or equal and certainly not worth the tuition. I could deal with 30k, mostly just because as big a fan of Cleveland that I am, I'm not a big fan of CSU.

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:05 pm

Yea, money is a major factor. It's going to be a lot of money to pay back, which worries me (and my parents).

rad lulz
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:12 pm

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MachineLemon
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby MachineLemon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:16 pm

mpalermo698 wrote:I plan on joining the JAG corp after law school, so I'm hoping that they will either help me repay some of it, or that will give me the income to make a dent in my loans.


As I understand, this is pretty competitive. You may very well not get it.

mpalermo698 wrote:Law school isn't just something I want to do for a career, but rather just because it interests me.


You may never find legal employment. The legal employment you do find may be menial and tedious. There are plenty of ways to follow the law and legal developments without risking your financial well-being.

I understand you probably want to move on with your life, but I'd advise retaking to get your scores up and get into a better school. I took a year off--great decision.

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MachineLemon
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby MachineLemon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:19 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Jag has like a 1%-2% acceptance rate now IIRC. Though if you get it, you're eligible for 10 yr. loan forgiveness. Better think of a backup plan.

You need to retake and reapply and get into OSU with money or WVU with money, at least.


QFT--sorry about all the simultaneous/redundant posting, Rad.

rad lulz
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:20 pm

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checkster
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby checkster » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:01 pm

Retake and go OSU, worst case scenario...Case. Don't go to the 2nd best school in Cleveland...

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:01 pm

What would my employment prospects be in Northeastern Ohio if I were to go to WVU? Would it basically be next to none, or if I did networking could I potentially get a job there? It's crazy how number based and ranking based it is to get a job in law.

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:03 pm

Also, I got a 154 on the LSAT which made me assume that it wasn't high enough to get into OSU or Case. I'm not really wanting to retake it, but you guys seem to think that WVU and CSU are terrible ideas, right?

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MachineLemon
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby MachineLemon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:13 pm

mpalermo698 wrote:Also, I got a 154 on the LSAT which made me assume that it wasn't high enough to get into OSU or Case. I'm not really wanting to retake it, but you guys seem to think that WVU and CSU are terrible ideas, right?


Yeah, it's a really bad idea. Sorry, I know it sucks, but things are really dicey right now in law.

You can definitely improve your score, though. It's the simplest way to dramatically improve your prospects and save money. This site is full of helpful information on how to study.

rad lulz
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:22 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JCFindley
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby JCFindley » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:23 pm

mpalermo698 wrote:Also, I got a 154 on the LSAT which made me assume that it wasn't high enough to get into OSU or Case. I'm not really wanting to retake it, but you guys seem to think that WVU and CSU are terrible ideas, right?


WVU is not a terrible idea but is not worth the sticker cost when you look at the probable job market that you will have to pay off the debt. IF you got a scholarship and cut down how much money you will borrow then it is not a bad school for the WV market. The way you get a scholarship is retaking the LSAT and rocking it. Which may also get you into other schools that have better job prospects and might be worth the loans.....

timbs4339
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:33 pm

You need to take the year off. A better LSAT score could not only save you a lot of money, it could open up doors to do legal work that is actually interesting and rewarding rather than temporary doc review or being a part-time "law clerk" for $12/hr. What kinds of law are you interested in?

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MachineLemon
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby MachineLemon » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:34 pm

JCFindley wrote:
mpalermo698 wrote:Also, I got a 154 on the LSAT which made me assume that it wasn't high enough to get into OSU or Case. I'm not really wanting to retake it, but you guys seem to think that WVU and CSU are terrible ideas, right?


WVU is not a terrible idea but is not worth the sticker cost when you look at the probable job market that you will have to pay off the debt. IF you got a scholarship and cut down how much money you will borrow then it is not a bad school for the WV market. The way you get a scholarship is retaking the LSAT and rocking it. Which may also get you into other schools that have better job prospects and might be worth the loans.....


Don't forget his Ohio ties....best to shoot for OSU, imo.

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JCFindley
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby JCFindley » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:41 pm

MachineLemon wrote:
JCFindley wrote:
mpalermo698 wrote:Also, I got a 154 on the LSAT which made me assume that it wasn't high enough to get into OSU or Case. I'm not really wanting to retake it, but you guys seem to think that WVU and CSU are terrible ideas, right?


WVU is not a terrible idea but is not worth the sticker cost when you look at the probable job market that you will have to pay off the debt. IF you got a scholarship and cut down how much money you will borrow then it is not a bad school for the WV market. The way you get a scholarship is retaking the LSAT and rocking it. Which may also get you into other schools that have better job prospects and might be worth the loans.....


Don't forget his Ohio ties....best to shoot for OSU, imo.


Yupp, that would be where I would shoot for if I was from Ohio..... Heck, if he got a 180 they might even let him dot the I.... (OSU folks will get that.)

Doing UG at WVU would probably give him the ties there too but I don't know WV well enough to actually say.

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:42 am

Thanks for the info. I'm really leaning towards WVU, but I'm gonna think about all this. Obviously most of what you said wasn't what I wanted to hear but I appreciate it, and maybe taking a year off would be beneficial.

I also applied to PITT but their review process was later than others so I haven't heard back yet.
I also figured that if I didn't get a job right away out of law school I could do Americorps or something. It would look good on a resume, and while it doesn't pay astounding salaries, I think I would enjoy the work, because I enjoy service based stuff.

Thanks for the help.

rad lulz
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:46 am

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romothesavior
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:51 am

mpalermo698 wrote:Thanks for the info. I'm really leaning towards WVU, but I'm gonna think about all this. Obviously most of what you said wasn't what I wanted to hear but I appreciate it, and maybe taking a year off would be beneficial.

If you rush into law school now, odds are you will come to regret it in a year. I go to a T20 and have a big firm job lined up, and if I am truly honest with myself, I should have retaken a third time and taken a year or two off before going. The market is so bad, and I probably left 2-3 points on the table. I could be going to the same school for free right now, or maybe going to a top 6 school. Your options are, quite simply, not good for legal employment. Going to CM or WVU at these prices is just financial and career suicide. You will be drowning in debt and likely making 30-50k, if you can even find a legal job in the first place.

Definitely think about it OP. I know taking a year off is a tough call to make, but countless TLSers have done it and retaken, and they couldn't be happier for it. A 154 is not good, but it can be improved upon. There are some great resources on TLS that can help you improve your score drastically (10+ points). I think you should take a year off, make a little money, study hard for the LSAT, and aim for Ohio State.

Good luck.

mpalermo698
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby mpalermo698 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:47 pm

rad lulz wrote:
mpalermo698 wrote:Thanks for the info. I'm really leaning towards WVU, but I'm gonna think about all this. Obviously most of what you said wasn't what I wanted to hear but I appreciate it, and maybe taking a year off would be beneficial.

I also applied to PITT but their review process was later than others so I haven't heard back yet.
I also figured that if I didn't get a job right away out of law school I could do Americorps or something. It would look good on a resume, and while it doesn't pay astounding salaries, I think I would enjoy the work, because I enjoy service based stuff.

Thanks for the help.

Doing Americorp after lawl school would be a pretty bad choice. You'll basically never get a legal job.


Really? I've been reading up on Americorps Legal Programs and you make okay money and it helps fulfill that 10 year public service debt relief program. I'm okay with taking a few years to do a program where you make a modest salary, because I like that type of work. I understand the economical side of it as well, with a mountain of debt piling up but Americorps also offers 5000 educational grants every term to go towards paying off your debt. But that is also 3 years down the road. Have to get the degree first.

rad lulz
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Re: Trying to decide between WVU and Cleveland-Marshall

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:58 pm

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