These numbers are wrong. The range means the lowest reported to the highest reported. The lowest reported Minnesota salary was $20,000, so Nebraska's low doesn't scare me. And Nebraska has LRAP too, so there is some safety net. I know that Nebraska does not have the same numbers as Minnesota, but I know I want to stay in the Midwest (well, west of Chicago, north of Texas, and east of Utah/Idaho)... I also know that something like 40 of Minnesota's grads went to DC, NYC, Chicago, Massachusetts and California. What does that mean? It means that for the jobs I would be interested in, the salaries are not going to be anything like the overall numbers Minnesota publishes, which include the almost certainly higher salaries of students who leave the Midwest. I would guess that those 40 were all top 25-30% of the class, and that they all made in the 120-160 range, which means the overall figures are significantly inflated. In reality, if I stay in the Midwest, there is probably nothing close to the gap between Minnesota's figures and Nebraska's figures... they are probably much more comparable than they appear (when you consider that Minnesota's figures are inflated by 1/5 of the class, or almost all the way down to the 75th percentile, going to major markets for biglaw, where I have no interest in going). So that is why Nebraska maintains its appeal. Some of the gap that exists between Minnesota and Nebraska in terms of published figures results from people practicing in markets I don't want. So if I'm planning to stay here, there may not be a big enough gap between THOSE figures to justify the difference in cost (and temperature ).

That's fine... I am going to talk to them again tomorrow and see if I can find out who actually makes that call and see if I can convince them to do it. Seriously, if they lifted that, I would submit my deposit. Maybe if they know that is my last hurdle, they'll bend a little.

LRAP you say?

http://www.lrapmn.org/

http://www.law.umn.edu/careers/career-f ... stics.html

100% reporting. The 25th percentile salary is 80,000.

That's with 37% reporting. Of those in private practice. I'm not knocking umn but be realistic with your data.

Are you high..

As others mentioned, that reflects just 37% of the private sector grads. The overall AVERAGE for Nebraska's reported salaries was a little under $60,000. That includes public, which is preferable at this salary range, for obvious reasons.

Also, as I mentioned, Minnesota's numbers are skewed by their placement in major markets. That may not be their whole class, but it is a lot of them (relatively, since presumably very few people go from Minnesota to practice small-firm or public in NY or CA, or even DC unless it's a damn good job). That skews the data high... pack in 40 jobs with a median of probably 140,000 at the top of any class, and suddenly the stats look damn good. Not that that's "cheating" or anything, but like I said, I don't want to leave the Midwest, so those statistics are NOT relevant to my decision.

Furthermore, 261 of 284 Minnesota grads were employed, but of those 261, only 191 are in long-term positions. Nebraska's numbers may be worse, I do not know... but I do know how much cheaper Nebraska would be in the meantime. That would be where my decision became difficult. I can read statistics and rankings and magazines, thank you. I got a 167 on my first try on the LSAT after only a month of studying right before finals in grad school... pretty sure I'm not retarded!

I do appreciate the sincere advice some people are giving, but others who think this is clear choice of pick the highest ranked school are just TLS-dittoheads and their opinion means less than nothing.

This is not a umn affiliated lrap.

I would still choose Minnesota though. If in state already you have the ties many other people will not. Neither school has great outcomes, but umn is significantly better. Also, I'd be too worried about those stips. It's not a rankings issue, I just think your best chance here is uminn

Hey; I just wanted to clarify: I don't have any ties with Minnesota, I just have reciprocity. My only ties are to South Dakota, and while I'm not intending to come back, it is a possibility. Given the low wages of South Dakota, if I did come back, it would be even more beneficial to have less debt. Also, my brother is a lawyer in South Dakota and he says from what he knows, Nebraska is just as highly regarded in South Dakota as Minnesota is... for what that's worth... Anyway, just wanted to let ya know the whole situation! If that changes any of your advice, let me know!

p.s. I am very concerned with the stips... I am trying to muscle them into removing them... will update if that happens. It's kind of frustrating, because I want to be able to choose Nebraska, but I just don't know if I can overlook the stips.

Oh my apologies for misunderstanding. Without ties to uminn that may change things. I hope that you are able to negotiate those stips away, perhaps the uminn scholarship would prove adequate leverage?
That being said, this is not a slam dunk either way. Uminn is decently cheap. Obvious Nebraska is the right price. If you get the stips removed or lowered, I'd say Nebraska given your geographic preferences. Having no ties to a Midwestern market like Minnesota will likely hurt you and the school does not place significantly in the west.

Eta: I meant not having ties would hurt if you went to uminn, not in general.

You need to call and talk to Dean Glenda Pierce about the scholarship stips. Be up front with her--tell her it's your only hang-up and explain that your decision is between Nebraska and Minnesota. Tell her exactly what you wrote above...if they lift them, you'll submit your deposit. I don't know if she's always the "go to" on the scholarship things, but she is this year because of the transition between Deans in the Admissions Office. If for some reason Dean Pierce isn't available, ask for Tracy Warren, the Dean of Admissions. I don't know if Tracy can consent to the scholarship changes, but she's the one who can give you a seat deposit extension if you can't get in touch with DGP. Hope that helps direct you to the right person/get you some answers!

Ah you're right. Virtually every school I have ever looked at reports 25-50-75, not range and median, so I misspoke. My apologies. (I did think that was weird when I saw it... I suppose I should have thought about it a little more.)

In any event, I'm not trashing Nebraska. Just pointing out that the school has limited placement into high paying firms, and limited placement nationally. Whether or not you go is a personal decision that is up to you, but these are things to keep in mind going forward. I still think retake is your best decision.

Good luck.

Yeah, that is kind of how I feel. Which is why I want to be prepared if it ends up happening that I can only get something in South Dakota after school. At the top of their reach, Minnesota is without a doubt a stronger school, but the problem is that reach does not really apply to me. There's a reason that I didn't send more apps out, even with fee waivers. I had narrowed it down to where I was really interested in living. If I had any ambition of going east or anything, I would have tried for law school there, where they would almost certainly place a higher percentage of the class in those larger markets. So I'm trying to decide between Minnesota and Nebraska based on their placement IN THIS REGION... that is a closer call, and one that could come down to scholarship differences. I really, really hope that Nebraska will lift the stips though, because as much as I do not relish the idea of turning down a top 20 acceptance with money, I'll really kick myself if I lose my scholly at Nebraska and end up paying more than I would have at Minnesota!!! Anyway, thanks for the help in brainstorming this.

Haha I hate the retake suggestion, but thanks anyway. Yeah, the range without the 25-50-75 is kinda strange... then again, can you imagine? That would have meant that 25% of Nebraska's graduating class made over $150,000! Also, I know I am foregoing some high-end salaries by doing so, but I am not looking nationwide. That is what makes this such a tough choice. Minnesota is set apart from many schools in this region because contrary to the standards of some T14, T6 and HYS elitists, Minnesota does place relatively well nationally for THOSE WHO WANT IT. This self-selected group skews the salary picture, though, and makes it hard to know the real difference between the two schools based strictly on their placement numbers immediately in this region (i.e. Nebraska, Minnesota, Kansas and the Dakotas). So that is why this decision is so tough. Sorry if I didn't make that clear from the beginning!

Thank you, I will try that. I hope she can accommodate me. It would take a lot of pressure off of me (in my mind) to pick Minnesota.

Drunk, actually.

So here are some more reliable figures...

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/cl ... =minnesota

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/cl ... l=nebraska

I think you are overhyping the guy who got 20k as evidence that UMN's numbers are inflated by out of region placement. Average private sector jobs in the Twin Cities pay around 90-120. Nebraska is not terrible, but not even close to the same. It is only a good option if free, which it will be, and if you can make sure it stays free. So keep on those admins to get the stip removed. It is way too easy to slip under that 50% mark.

Edit: also take note of those article 3 clerkships. Those people will probably end up at Dorsey or Faegre making more than their presently reporting classmates.

I don't think I would say 90-120 is average in the Cities... the data do not support that. Also, Nebraska did report new statistics. Their salary figures are lower, for sure (especially at the top), but very transparent, and they actually seem to get a lot of people to report salaries. 88.5% employed at 9 months and an average salary around $55,000 for everybody combined (66.2% report salary info compared to Minnesota in the 30s), with a max of 165,000... I know I will likely make less there, but since neither school is a GUARANTEE of anything, good or bad, I'm still on the fence. Also, I am trying to get them to lift the stips. That is very sound advice.

This is another discussion, but how does the clerkship career path work? I've never had that explained to me at all.

Edit: I'm not overhyping anything; just saying shit can happen at either school. $19,000 as a low at Nebraska is much less disconcerting than $10,000 out of Minnesota (the actual low). Also, the new low for Nebraska this year is $27,000. I don't plan on being in that bracket, but it gives you an idea of how badly things could end up. Encourages you to give SOME weight to the amount you borrow. Not smart to assume you'll be top 25%, LR, and getting six figures. Especially in this market. It is good to include that in your consideration, but you also need to allow for the worst-case scenario... at Minnesota, that means allowing for the fact that if you come out at the bottom of your class, you have to compete not only with Wisconsin and Iowa grads, but also the occasional T14s... not to mention William Mitchell, St. Thomas and Hamline, which are SOME competition, especially for the grads at the lower end of their Minnesota class. Furthermore, if you don't get a job in the cities, and wind up in more rural Minnesota... maybe it's just me, but I'd rather be dead. Or in Nebraska. Either way.

As much as I know you would enjoy law school in Boulder, I think you should go to Nebraska. Is there a grace period before losing your $$$? I do think you can work hard enough to ensure that you keep your money at T2 schools, contrary to what most on here believe.

One correction: Worst case scenario at both schools in unemployment.

Edit: Though I'm with you on rather being dead than winding up in rural Minnesota.

Regarding "ties to MN" stuff, being from one of the states with reciprocity (e.g. South Dakota) is probably good enough for most intents and purposes. The big thing with the "ties" factor is that, if you don't get a big law/government job, you will likely have to work at a smaller firm. Smaller firms (and, to an extent, also PI positions) are very reluctant to hire folks who they don't think will stay. So, people who are from the coasts, or TX, or something, have a bitch of a time overcoming that.

If you're from a surrounding state, like the Dakotas or, to a lesser extent, Wisconsin, it's not an issue. Lots of people move from those states to Minneapolis and live here forever. Nobody will question your desire to stay and work after they've expended a year or two training you.

So don't worry too much about the "ties to MN" thing. Being from S.D. is a positive.

And I'm sure that works the same in Nebraska too. This equation has the added difficulty that his ties are decent in either state.