Need Decision Help: UCI $$$ vs. Loyola with $$$

[decisions/are/hard]

So here it is (by the way I want to go into entertainment or media law)

Loyola with $32,000 scholarship per year dependent on a 3.2 GPA stipulation. However, I will save money by living at home and I want to practice law in Los Angeles.

UCI with $30,000 per year dependent on a 2.0 GPA stipulation. And I will have very expensive housing costs, all of the housing at UCI is super expensive people!!

I am on wait list at UCLA Law, and have yet to hear back from USC. Chances are if I do get in, there won't be any money for me and I will be doing it all on loans.

Worried about that GPA stipulation at Loyola, but I really really don't want to be all the way in Irvine for living costs and personal reasons. I know UCI class size is better at Loyola.

Which is the best decision? Those are big scholarships, the tuition at Loyola and UCI is around 43,000. So this makes it super hard to decide.

[JDProspect]

Did you attend ASW at UCI this weekend? There were a lot of UCI vs. Loyola students.

[decisions/are/hard]

Yes, I really liked UCI, but didn't meet anyone debating Loyola vs. UCI.

Were you there? What did you think? A lot of people are saying there is no way UCI will be in top 20.

[JDProspect]

Yes, I was there. I met at least 5 admits debating UCI v. Loyola

This is the way I see it. They will not be ranked until 2015 and that's after our class should be "hired." Although they may or may not debut in the top 20s, it is very apparent that Career services is doing everything they can to assist the students. As they said, it is an OC experiment, and they will not have it fail.

I'm still waiting on other schools, but I have a bigger scholarship at BU, so I will decide after I visit BU and hear back from all my schools.

[decisions/are/hard]

I would go for BU. Seriously Boston is an amazing city, Congrats!

It really seemed like UCI was committed to its students and finding jobs, wayyy more than Loyola has shown. Do you think that is enough in my situation to choose UCI over Loyola?

Thanks for your help! I'm going a little crazy.

[JDProspect]

Boston is so cold! I think I'd freeze to death. I rather stay in CA. I attended a BU event in San Francisco recently and met some of their 3L. Unlike Irvine, a lot of them did not have jobs lined up. In addition, they were using their Spring Break to come out to SF to try to get into that saturated market. That is why I am highly considering UCI over BU.

I was accepted into Loyola with $$$ as well. Applied as a safety school, but never saw it as a real option, so I am biased.

Loyola is really known for giving out too many scholarships. Thus, after the first year students lose it. So, you really need to consider that possibility in your cost/debt analysis. At UCI it is guaranteed as long as 2.0 requirement is met. That is much easier than top 30% at Loyola. Perhaps if you can negotiate the stipulations then it would be worth it to you.

[lawgeekgrl]

Hi there. I'm biased too because Loyola was a safety for me, while UCI was my top choice. I too met a lot of people debating between the two schools. But I didn't have second thoughts when I declined my offer of admission to Loyola.

From what I gathered during ASW, both from students and staff, getting a job coming from UCI won't be a problem. Yes, we'll be the first class ranked, but we'll probably be placed prior to the rankings coming out. Loyola is a respectable school. They will both basically come down to markets. UCI will place better in the OC area. Loyola will place better in LA. Big disclaimer, these are assumptions. Anyone who chips in are assuming too. At the end of the day, three years are fairly far away and a lot can happen until them.

For me it came down to personal preference. I want to go to school in a setting in which I can make it most of my life. That isn't L.A. for me. It will be so easy for me to detach from law school being in Los Angeles. At UCI, it will be all about learning... and the local brewery.

Be really careful with the stipulations. Tons of people (including me) would kill to have the scholarship you got to Irvine. Check out with Loyola students what they think about keeping that up. Also, maybe ask Loyola how many people lose scholarships after their 1L?

Also, UCI housing does not need to be expensive. You can share a two bedroom apartment for just a bit less than 500 per month. Less than 500 for your own room? That's unheard of, specially when you think of the quality of life. However, if you live at home (with parents?) then you probably don't pay anything at all. So you can't beat that either.

[PDaddy]

It's no contest: UCI!

UCI is going to rival UCLA and USC in a few years, in prestige, ranking and material success. I don't even think Loyola, UCLA or USC should be in the conversation unless they far exceed UCI scholly-wise.

UCI is smaller, pairs every student with a successful mentor. UCI is a prestigious university (arguably one of the top-10 public universities in the nation) and has a great business school. Orange County is beautiful...far enough away from L.A. to keep you from the BS but close enough in proximity to get you there quickly if needed.

Why is anyone talking about UCLA or USC anymore? They're established, but they're old; they aren't doing anything new. UCI is innovative, and students have an opportunity to actually partake in the building...the actual development of a law school. Who wouldn't want to be a part of that?

[AreJay711]

UCI all the way. It is a better school and even if it wasn't, screw that stip -- If you have below a 3.2 you would be getting double fucked.

[shoeshine]

UCI for sure.

But don't go because you think it is going to be ranked highly because 1) that won't affect your class, 2) there is no way to know where it will be ranked

I personally think there is no way it reaches UCLA or USC level prestige in this decade.

[decisions/are/hard]

Thanks everyone. I explained my housing situation to UCI and they actually upped my scholarship however, Loyola told me they might be able to remove my stipulation and will let me know mid april.

So the only reason I am stuck, is because I definitely want to practice in LA. Will I be able to practice in LA if I go to Irvine?- and what about externing during my 2nd and 3rd year in LA. I'm worried about being out of the LA market, because I went to school in Irvine.

[shoeshine]

Thanks everyone. I explained my housing situation to UCI and they actually upped my scholarship however, Loyola told me they might be able to remove my stipulation and will let me know mid april.

So the only reason I am stuck, is because I definitely want to practice in LA. Will I be able to practice in LA if I go to Irvine?- and what about externing during my 2nd and 3rd year in LA. I'm worried about being out of the LA market, because I went to school in Irvine.

Within driving distance = in the market.

Do you really think that no one that works in LA lives in the OC?

[lawgeekgrl]

Thanks everyone. I explained my housing situation to UCI and they actually upped my scholarship however, Loyola told me they might be able to remove my stipulation and will let me know mid april.

So the only reason I am stuck, is because I definitely want to practice in LA. Will I be able to practice in LA if I go to Irvine?- and what about externing during my 2nd and 3rd year in LA. I'm worried about being out of the LA market, because I went to school in Irvine.

You are the first person to successfully get their scholarship raised at UCI. Good for you!

[dreabee]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

[Doorkeeper]

UCI with $30k per year sounds pretty good to me. Go there.

[splitbrain]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

wth is this nonsense?

[flem]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING

[moneybagsphd]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

wth is this nonsense?

seriously. lol, thanks for the specialty rankings. UCI is a much stronger school than Loyola irrespective of UCI's future rank (although, I'd wager it'll debut higher than Loyola) because it will give you more access to secondary markets (e.g. OC and SD). Plus, Loyola's stip is garbage.

[splitbrain]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Super Lawyers ranks the quantity but doesn't take into account number of grads per year nor the years they graduated. This ranking is as useless as Cooley's own ranking system.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

...okay?

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

Again, about as useless as Cooley's ranking system.

As for things actually relevant to OP's decision:
Loyola placed ~12.8% of its 2010 grads in firms with 51+ attorneys. UCI will be placing numbers similar to USC's and UCLA's based off of summer 2011 SA's and offers.

Loyola placed ~3.6% of its 2010 grads in clerkships. UCI placed something like 24% for the class of 2012.

Loyola graduated 388 people in 2010 and their Student/Faculty Ratio is 15.3:1. UCI's class of 2015 will be somewhere around 100-110 and their Student/Faculty Ratio is going to be something like 7-8:1.

I respect Loyola and think they're a great school, but they are not producing equal results for their alumni.

[t14fanboy]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

wth is this nonsense?

[top30man]

Southern California Super Lawyers, which is an annual ranking of the Top 100 lawyers in SoCal, has more Loyola grads this year than any other school in Southern California - more than USC, UCLA, Pepperdine, etc.

Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy spoke at Loyola last fall.

US News & World Report ranks Loyola #8 in Trial Advocacy, #10 in Tax Law, and #18 for part-time programs.

wth is this nonsense?

Agreed. None of these are good measures of success. My local TTTT had a supreme court justice come speak last spring. It just means the law school had 20 grand to burn.

[partyrock]

current LLS student here. I know very little about UCI, so I am not going to speak to its qualifications. Please do not take that to mean I think its a bad school, I don't, I just don't know enough to talk about it.

I think Loyola is great for specific areas. It is very clear that Loyola excels in terms of Public Interest and Criminal Law. We have excellent clinics for students in both areas. The campus is very close (in terms of proximity) to PI organizations and the courts downtown.

That being said, Loyola is trying to branch out its programs into other areas, such as Entertainment, which it seems like you are interested in. My interest is in Criminal Law, but I have many friends/classmates that want to go into entertainment. At this point, its very tough for Loyola grads to get into that field. Short of having connections in the field, you will be competing with USC and UCLA who are, lets face it, at a higher pedigree.

Although the 3.2 stip isnt completely TTT, its aroudn Top 45-50%, I really think its a no-brainer to go with the guaranteed scholly at UCI. Assume that you will be saving ~20k living at home if you go to Loyola, I still think its the better financial choice to go with the money at UCI.

If you have any other questions just PM me.

[ryemanhattan]

I'd say Loyola, hands down, but only because I'm currently trying to negotiate more money from UCI and the more of yous with tasty scholarships that go elsewhere the more likely I'll get my offer increased.

In the event I get into UVA off the waitlist, you should probably go to UCI. I'll keep you posted.

[bk1]

UCI hands down.

While there is a lot of risk with UCI due to the unknown, there is a lot of known risk with Loyola in that you have a high chance of not ending up with a full time job as a lawyer. I'd take the UCI hype on the hope that it pans out better than Loyola (which I would guess it will due to the support its receiving) over the known huge risk of Loyola.

[dreabee]

I happen think it's cool when a Supreme Court Justice speaks at a school - regardless of its relevance to a school's reputation - because it gives students an opportunity to meet someone on the Supreme Court. It's cool that Loyola's graduates are considered to be very good trial lawyers. As for the rankings, people already brought up the subject of rankings in earlier posts by saying they thought UCI would be in the top 20 in 2015. Hence, my input about Loyola's rankings.

Good lord people. Are we really hear to insult each other? I thought the point of this forum was to share information. Take whatever is helpful to you. As for the rest, there's no reason to insult those who give information that you might not find useful.