The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which law school should I take?

Cornell (CoA: 149,040)
66
70%
Vanderbilt (CoA: 135,438)
16
17%
Notre Dame (CoA:117,240)
3
3%
Run away from lawl school and never look back.
9
10%
 
Total votes: 94

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Law Sauce
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby Law Sauce » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:13 pm

Jaeger wrote:
bigeast03 wrote:
Jaeger wrote: Also, OP have you tried to leverage more money out of Vandy using the Cornell scholly?


I thought that Vandy was pretty strict about not negotiating? If anyone knows otherwise, definitely correct me.



Ah, I think that's true actually. I'd still try though. Couldn't hurt.


I really doubt that this would matter. Most schools have set scholarship amounts and only very rarely are swayed by other school's offer, especially in April.

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Jaeger
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby Jaeger » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:16 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
Jaeger wrote:
bigeast03 wrote:
Jaeger wrote: Also, OP have you tried to leverage more money out of Vandy using the Cornell scholly?


I thought that Vandy was pretty strict about not negotiating? If anyone knows otherwise, definitely correct me.



Ah, I think that's true actually. I'd still try though. Couldn't hurt.


I really doubt that this would matter. Most schools have set scholarship amounts and only very rarely are swayed by other school's offer, especially in April.


Are you saying that negotiating scholarship amounts does not work? Because there's a whole thread on here that disagrees.

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A Swift
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby A Swift » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:26 pm

Interview season a year from August? ITE will be butterflies and rainbows. Got wherever you want/will have more fun.

Note: The grades required to land biglaw are directly correlated to your school's ranking and your interviewing ability. If you are socially awkward, I would play the numbers with Cornell.

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bigeast03
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby bigeast03 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:45 pm

Law Sauce wrote:
bigeast03 wrote:I'm going to revive this thread because deposit deadlines are quickly approaching. After visiting both Cornell and Vandy, I'm more torn than ever. I felt extremely comfortable at Vanderbilt, and I definitely feel like being there would provide a better quality of life for me. However, I feel like Cornell's job prospects are markedly higher. Am I crazy to turn down the additional opportunities that Cornell may provide by choosing Vandy, particularly given the relatively equality of Cost of Attendance at each?

Help/input would be greatly appreciated!


I think that socially, you will more than likely be happy at both places and Cornell certainly does offer more security as far as hedging your bets on Biglaw. So, I think Cornell is the right choice here absent a desire for a particular southern market and even then, Cornell is not a bad choice. (Also I think Cornell will turn more heads, or get more people to pick up your resume more often than Vanderbilt, simply because of the name, in the Northeast and anywhere else but the South). If it is only QoL that's keeping you from Cornell, I would tell you that it is only 3 years, however, if you just don't want to be there, then you just don't want to be there, and Vandy does seems like a cool place to be for three years.


This is really helpful actually, I definitely appreciate it. I know it sounds trivial, and it may well be, but I just feel like the balance that Vandy/Nashville provides would help me from getting burned out too quickly. This is certainly not a knock on Cornell, but just a bonus for Vandy. I know 1L year is awful wherever you may be, and that you won't have a whole lot of time for "balance", so I'm honestly not sure how much weight to put into it.

keg411
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby keg411 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:48 pm

If you really think you'll be completely uncomfortable at Cornell, go to Vandy (assuming you actually visited both). Comfort level can be really underrated when it comes to doing well in law school. While there is a difference in job prospects, I don't think going to Vandy will totally doom you. (Also, I'm saying all this as someone who is generally pro-Cornell and I voted for them in the poll before reading the rest of the thread).

woeisme
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:17 pm

Cornell is better for your disclosed career goals ... so if it's a close call in your mind, I'd pick Cornell.

If you're just looking for permission to choose Vandy, then .. by all means, go for it. People have made that choice before, it's not like it'd be unheard of...

rad lulz
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:54 pm

Lincoln wrote:
rad lulz wrote:If you'd prefer to work at a Southern firm, Vanderbilt. If an NYC firm, Cornell. Pick which region, and you've got your answer.

woeisme
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:07 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Lincoln wrote:
rad lulz wrote:If you'd prefer to work at a Southern firm, Vanderbilt. If an NYC firm, Cornell. Pick which region, and you've got your answer.


I'd debate this as depending upon what sort of firm you're talking about. My perception is that if it's a national firm with a southern office, Cornell would still have the edge.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:15 pm

OP - if you feel like you -must- work at a large firm (100+ attorneys) post graduation, Cornell easily. If you feel like you -want- to work at a large firm, but are okay with that not happening, Vanderbilt. I'm not saying Cornell is 100% in large firms, but it does a lot better at placing students in large firms than Vanderbilt does -> better enough that if the two are roughly the same price and you want a large firm, Cornell would be the right choice.

Your ties would likely be enough to mass mail/bid on employers from the regions you listed from either school. However, I don't believe that anyone would disagree that more employers nationally (in this case, generally outside GA, AL, TN, and maybe FL) would read your resume and offer you an interview (from mass mailing or OCI) with Cornell written on it.

rad lulz
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:26 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

woeisme
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:37 pm

rad lulz wrote:
1. The big dogs in many Southern markets are not national firms to begin with (LDDKR in Orlando; Waller, Baker, and Bass in Nashville; Starnes, Lightfoot, and Maynard Cooper in Birmingham). Like to hire from local schools, and UVA/Duke/Vandy.

2. If they have national offices, the Southern offices are the main ones (Bradley Arant in Bham; King & Spalding and Alston & Bird in ATL; H&K in Jax and Tampa - yes I know H&K doesn't have a headquarters per se, but there are a couple of the leading offices). In those, they like to hire from local schools, and UVA/Duke/Vandy.

3. If it is a firm headquartered elsewhere, they've merged with a Southern firm to form the satellite, and the personnel and demographics of the office are largely the same, though some people may migrate down (K&L Gates in Charlotte). Still like to hire from local schools, and UVA/Duke/Vandy.

4. If this national has started the satellite, they don't take a bunch rando bros from NYC or wherever and ship 'em down. They poach established people from the area, because that's how you get business (Quarles in Tampa and Naples). Some people may make the interoffice transfer down, but the demgraphics remain the same. Like to hire from local schools, and UVA/Duke/Vandy.


You could be right about those regions ... when I made that comment I more specifically had the Florida legal market in mind (since that's the only southern market with which I'm familiar).

rad lulz
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:53 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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echamberlin8
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby echamberlin8 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:56 pm

T14 is supposedly considered to be "nationally portable" in comparison to all other law schools, but everyone here acts like Cornell is basically a waste (or close to it) if you don't want to work in NYC. Do you guys think this is really true, or is it just a case of self-selection? I'm curious what Cornell students have to say on this matter. After all, it is a generally well-regarded Ivy League school. Actually, the former co-managing partner at my firm is a Cornell JD/MBA (granted, he graduated back in the '70s).

woeisme
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:00 pm

echamberlin8 wrote:T14 is supposedly considered to be "nationally portable" in comparison to all other law schools, but everyone here acts like Cornell is basically a waste (or close to it) if you don't want to work in NYC. Do you guys think this is really true, or is it just a case of self-selection? I'm curious what Cornell students have to say on this matter. After all, it is a generally well-regarded Ivy League school. Actually, the former co-managing partner at my firm is a Cornell JD/MBA (granted, he graduated back in the '70s).


No, I mean I agree. I'm a Cornell grad who, by the way, was one of the minority to self-select NOT to go to NYC. My impression is that Cornell is absolutely a nationally portable school, though it's difficult to go to a part of the country to which you really have no ties. I think that's probably true from any school, though, HYS included.

woeisme
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby woeisme » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:03 pm

rad lulz wrote:
The only FL market that I saw possibly wetting their pants over T14 2Ls the past couple summers (to the detriment of the traditional schools) was Miami. But from the OCI results I have seen, it was median kids with ties at T6 and T10 type schools, not GULC/Cornell.


Incidentally, this is largely the market I had in mind when I commented. I guess I have no real way of knowing, but it hasn't really seemed that Cornell has been viewed differently from the rest of the PVMBDN group. Also don't know about GULC.

Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree on this one since neither one of us can possibly have all the necessary info.

rad lulz
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:05 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Help me choose! Cornell, ND or Vandy ($ at all)?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:10 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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echamberlin8
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Re: The final showdown! Cornell or Vandy (same $ at both)?

Postby echamberlin8 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:29 pm

rad lulz wrote:
woeisme wrote:
echamberlin8 wrote:T14 is supposedly considered to be "nationally portable" in comparison to all other law schools, but everyone here acts like Cornell is basically a waste (or close to it) if you don't want to work in NYC. Do you guys think this is really true, or is it just a case of self-selection? I'm curious what Cornell students have to say on this matter. After all, it is a generally well-regarded Ivy League school. Actually, the former co-managing partner at my firm is a Cornell JD/MBA (granted, he graduated back in the '70s).


No, I mean I agree. I'm a Cornell grad who, by the way, was one of the minority to self-select NOT to go to NYC. My impression is that Cornell is absolutely a nationally portable school, though it's difficult to go to a part of the country to which you really have no ties. I think that's probably true from any school, though, HYS included.

Agreed.

None of the T14 are that portable to places you don't have ties. The main advantage of going to a T14 school is placement at large law firms in major markets and better shots at large firm jobs in places you have ties. But even the T14 is regional. I wouldn't go to UVA over Berk for West coast, for example.

So when you're considering schools, it's not just in a vacuum. You can get a biglaw job in the South out of Cornell. You can get a biglaw job in NYC out of Vandy. But more NYC firms recruit at Cornell and those firms expect to hire a bunch of Cornell grads right off the bad. The converse is true in the South at Vanderbilt.

Hope that makes sense


Thanks for the responses. This all makes sense. I'm still learning the basics of ties from TLS, however.

I am from Northern Virginia. I grew up here, currently work at a job in DC while still living in NOVA, and went to college in VA. From my understanding, the only place(s) I can really work at other than the region where I went to law school are NYC (because of its size, ties don't really seem to be an issue here...hopefully) and where I grew up--the DC area. Are there any other exceptions to this rule? Chicago? LA?




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