Help with choosing a school. F2012. Forum

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:53 am

Hey guys,

Pretty long post so bear with me. Thanks in advance!

So I applied to a lot of schools, below are a list of possible candidates and my current status in each. If a school is in a higher tier then I will probably choose it over a school in a lower tier.

For now, I need input regarding Tier 3. Deposit deadlines are approaching, I have to pay for a seat at one of Tier 3 schools. I will update the post if my status changes.

I am international and so have no ties within the US. My priorities are as follows:

1. Job prospects (summer only) hoping for big law, if not then any meaningful work.

my situation is unique. I know what i plan to do after law school. I just need help with picking a law mostly based on issues other than after-law-school job prospects.

2. law school community (small classes, school spirit, friendly student body...)
3. location: Nice campus, not in a crazy busy, huge city. I hate crowds and traffic (who doesn't). Would like to be able to drive a car comfortably (ie not waste time in traffic).
4. Weather: hate cold, too much rain (not that 1ls enjoy the outdoors anyways).
5. Cost of living and cost of school (been saving up! scholly and money from other sources are available)

University (Rank-status)

Tier 3: Sandiego (65-Applied) vs. Miami (69-Accepted) vs. Lewis and Clark (58-Accepted)

really torn between these schools. Miami's large student body and incredibly high acceptance rate bother me a little. Back when i scored my first (very low) LSAT, it was all i wanted.
Sandiego, i feel would be nice but no update yet. Should i even consider it?
Lewis and clark also seems nice but i am worried about diversity, lifestyle and culture there.

Ignore for now:
Tier 2: American (49-WL) vs Tulane (51-WL) vs. Pepperdine (49-WL)

I feel like American will end up rejecting me. Apparently they wait list everybody. Leaning towards Tulane . However, I think American is better for me. Pepperdine seems really nice, however, worried about it being too conservative? (from what i read online)

________________________________________
Thanks for any and all input in advance. I regret not doing enough research for my undergrad and ended up making a big mistake. I don't want to do the same thing for law school. Thanks again

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:56 am

Gavel wrote:Hey guys,

So I applied to a lot of schools, below are a list of possible candidates and my current status in each. If a school is in a higher tier then I will probably choose it over a school in a lower tier.

For now, I need input regarding Tier 3 (maybe tier 2 if you have time). Deposit deadlines are approaching, I have to pay for a seat at one of Tier 3 schools. I will update the post if my status changes.

I am international and so have no ties within the US. My priorities are as follows:

1. Job prospects (summer especially) want big law.
2. law school community (small classes, school spirit, friendly student body...)
3. location: Nice campus, not in a crazy busy, huge city. I hate crowds and traffic (who doesn't). Would like to be able to drive a car comfortably (ie not waste time in traffic).
4. Weather: hate cold, too much rain (not that 1ls enjoy the outdoors anyways).
5. Cost of living and cost of school (been saving up! )

University (Rank-status)

Tier 3: Sandiego (65-Applied) vs. Miami (69-Accepted) vs. Lewis and Clark (58-Accepted)

really torn between these schools. Miami's large student body and incredibly high acceptance rate bother me a little. Back when i scored my first (very low) LSAT, it was all i wanted.
Sandiego, i feel would be nice but no update yet. Should i even consider it?
Lewis and clark also seems nice but i am worried about diversity, lifestyle and culture there.

Tier 2: American (49-WL) vs Tulane (51-WL) vs. Pepperdine (49-Applied)

I feel like American will end up rejecting me. Apparently they wait list everybody. Leaning towards Tulane . However, I think American is better for me. Pepperdine seems really nice, however, worried about it being too conservative? (from what i read online)

Tier 1: UC Davis (29-Applied) vs UC Hastings (44-Applied)

Will take either assuming i get accepted. too far fetched for their ranks and my numbers. so we can cross this bridge when we get there (if ever).

Thanks for any and all input in advance. I regret not doing enough research for my undergrad and ended up making a big mistake. I don't want to do the same thing for law school. Thanks again

If you want biglaw, none of the above. They are all in very saturated markets or markets that have few biglaw SA spots.

Or maybe the Cal schools if you can swing a decent scholly and drop out after the first year if you don't make top 10%.

Bronck · Post by **Bronck** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:57 am

1. You're international, so you have no ties. Do you AT LEAST have an idea of where you'd like to practice? I have my doubts since your list of schools is so scattered.
2. None of these schools will get you biglaw (well, they MIGHT, but the chances are overwhelming that they won't)
3. None of these schools are worth going to at sticker price.
4. You've only been accepted to TWO of the listed schools? I don't understand this exercise.

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:04 am

Bronck wrote:1. You're international, so you have no ties. Do you AT LEAST have an idea of where you'd like to practice? I have my doubts since your list of schools is so scattered.
2. None of these schools will get you biglaw (well, they MIGHT, but the chances are overwhelming that they won't)
3. None of these schools are worth going to at sticker price.
4. You've only been accepted to TWO of the listed schools? I don't understand this exercise.

1. I will end up practicing internationally at a big law firm. (i do not have a problem finding a job after i hopefully graduate). Summer jobs i need for experience.
2. see 1.
3. Not an issue, getting schollys/money from other sources.
4. yes, I just need help right now with deciding between lewis and clark and Miami (to pay the deposit and know where i am going if all else fails). if i get into a higher tier school, ill go there. I dont know when that will happen. so limiting the discussion to just Tier 3. Added the rest to easily update later.

thanks for the quick reply!

Bronck · Post by **Bronck** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:07 am

Gavel wrote:
Bronck wrote:1. You're international, so you have no ties. Do you AT LEAST have an idea of where you'd like to practice? I have my doubts since your list of schools is so scattered.
2. None of these schools will get you biglaw (well, they MIGHT, but the chances are overwhelming that they won't)
3. None of these schools are worth going to at sticker price.
4. You've only been accepted to TWO of the listed schools? I don't understand this exercise.
1. I will end up practicing internationally at a big law firm. (i do not have a problem finding a job after i hopefully graduate). Summer jobs i need for experience.
2. see 1.
3. Not an issue, getting schollys/money from other sources.
4. yes, I just need help right now with deciding between lewis and clark and Miami (to pay the deposit and know where i am going if all else fails). if i get into a higher tier school, ill go there. I dont know when that will happen. so limiting the discussion to just Tier 3. Added the rest to easily update later.

thanks for the quick reply!

How are you coming to the conclusion that you *will* end up practicing internationally in big law from one of these schools.

RedBirds2011 · Post by **RedBirds2011** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:09 am

The way it sounds, it's like he has some sort of guaranteed "in." connection, OP?

thelawschoolproject · Post by **thelawschoolproject** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:09 am

Bronck wrote:
4. You've only been accepted to TWO of the listed schools? I don't understand this exercise.

This.

Other schools don't matter unless you're accepted to them.

As for L&C vs. Miami...it seems like lifestyle-wise you might like Miami more? Honestly, I don't think you have easy access to Big Law with either one of these schools. Is there some kind of secondary type of work you'd be interested in during the summer? Or a particular region you hope to practice in? This might help you make a more effective decision.

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:11 am

Bronck wrote:
Gavel wrote:
Bronck wrote:1. You're international, so you have no ties. Do you AT LEAST have an idea of where you'd like to practice? I have my doubts since your list of schools is so scattered.
2. None of these schools will get you biglaw (well, they MIGHT, but the chances are overwhelming that they won't)
3. None of these schools are worth going to at sticker price.
4. You've only been accepted to TWO of the listed schools? I don't understand this exercise.
1. I will end up practicing internationally at a big law firm. (i do not have a problem finding a job after i hopefully graduate). Summer jobs i need for experience.
2. see 1.
3. Not an issue, getting schollys/money from other sources.
4. yes, I just need help right now with deciding between lewis and clark and Miami (to pay the deposit and know where i am going if all else fails). if i get into a higher tier school, ill go there. I dont know when that will happen. so limiting the discussion to just Tier 3. Added the rest to easily update later.

thanks for the quick reply!
How are you coming to the conclusion that you *will* end up practicing internationally in big law from one of these schools.

Yeah you need to explain why a job is guaranteed.

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:14 am

How are you coming to the conclusion that you *will* end up practicing internationally in big law from one of these schools.

I will probably not be working in the states, unless i find an amazing job. Which, like you say, will be tough coming from these schools. Best case scenario, i will hopefully be working internationally with big law that have offices where i am from (where i know the job market).

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:17 am

Gavel wrote:
How are you coming to the conclusion that you *will* end up practicing internationally in big law from one of these schools.
I will probably not be working in the states, unless i find an amazing job. Which, like you say, will be tough coming from these schools. Best case scenario, i will hopefully be working internationally with big law that have offices where i am from (where i know the job market).

I'm still confused. Do you already have a JD (or equivalent degree) from your home country? How will getting an American JD help you get a job in another country?

Bronck · Post by **Bronck** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:18 am

Gavel wrote:
How are you coming to the conclusion that you *will* end up practicing internationally in big law from one of these schools.
I will probably not be working in the states, unless i find an amazing job. Which, like you say, will be tough coming from these schools. Best case scenario, i will hopefully be working internationally with big law that have offices where i am from (where i know the job market).

The problem is the chances of getting big law from these schools is extremely small.

If you're attending a regional school like the ones you've listed... you should go in knowing that you will likely be working in that region (e.g., L&C and Oregon) -- hence the name.

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:22 am

Not guaranteed at all. Just that the local competition do not have JDs. International law firms have offices where I plan to work. They mostly hire western educated lawyers who are from Europe/North America who have JDs. Being local and having a JD is rare (although that is changing). even though my jurisdiction will not acknowledge a JD as a JD, these international law firms do.

If I do not get a job in a big law firm it is not the end. Any work during the summer is fine with me. Will take whatever i can get.

RedBirds2011 · Post by **RedBirds2011** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:24 am

What country do you hail from? And why not go to school there? Why get US education for non us job?

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:27 am

Gavel wrote:Not guaranteed at all. Just that the local competition do not have JDs. International law firms have offices where I plan to work. They mostly hire western educated lawyers who are from Europe/North America who have JDs. Being local and having a JD is rare (although that is changing). even though my jurisdiction will not acknowledge a JD as a JD, these international law firms do.

If I do not get a job in a big law firm it is not the end. Any work during the summer is fine with me. Will take whatever i can get.

That's interesting.

Perhaps you have done this, but I would look at the degrees those JDs who were hired have to make sure a) they are from schools in your range, b) the firms are not picky about geographic location of the school (maybe favoring NYC or DC), c) the lawyers did not have prior biglaw experience before moving to your country. Look at lawyers hired within the last 3 years.

In terms of summer work, you will probably not be able to find a biglaw or similarly paying gig. Your most likely summer option will be working for a small school-funded stipend for a public interest or government organization.

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 am

RedBirds2011 wrote:What country do you hail from? And why not go to school there? Why get US education for non us job?

Don't think i will end up living in the states.

International law firms here want JDs. Schools here do not offer that. hence getting JD from US but not working in US.

RedBirds2011 · Post by **RedBirds2011** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:28 am

[quote="Gavel"]Not guaranteed at all. Just that the local competition do not have JDs. International law firms have offices where I plan to work. They mostly hire western educated lawyers who are from Europe/North America who have JDs. Being local and having a JD is rare (although that is changing). even though my jurisdiction will not acknowledge a JD as a JD, these international law firms do.

Ah I see. Not sure I fully understand, but I think you know your situation better than anyone here so do what YOU think is best.

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:31 am

That's interesting.

Perhaps you have done this, but I would look at the degrees those JDs who were hired have to make sure a) they are from schools in your range, b) the firms are not picky about geographic location of the school (maybe favoring NYC or DC), c) the lawyers did not have prior biglaw experience before moving to your country. Look at lawyers hired within the last 3 years.

In terms of summer work, you will probably not be able to find a biglaw or similarly paying gig. Your most likely summer option will be working for a small school-funded stipend for a public interest or government organization.

I know a lot of people in the legal field here who have gone to similarly ranked schools (or worse) and have made it. That is changing (slowly) and i believe i will be in good condition when i get back.

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:32 am

RedBirds2011 wrote:
Gavel wrote:Not guaranteed at all. Just that the local competition do not have JDs. International law firms have offices where I plan to work. They mostly hire western educated lawyers who are from Europe/North America who have JDs. Being local and having a JD is rare (although that is changing). even though my jurisdiction will not acknowledge a JD as a JD, these international law firms do.

Ah I see. Not sure I fully understand, but I think you know your situation better than anyone here so do what YOU think is best.

yes, my situation is unique. I know what i am doing after law school. I just need help with picking a law school. really mostly based on issues other than job prospects (other than summer).

RedBirds2011 · Post by **RedBirds2011** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:35 am

Well, all other factors aside and barring location preference of some of those said firms, I would go to the school that is cheapest.

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:36 am

Gavel wrote:
RedBirds2011 wrote:
Gavel wrote:Not guaranteed at all. Just that the local competition do not have JDs. International law firms have offices where I plan to work. They mostly hire western educated lawyers who are from Europe/North America who have JDs. Being local and having a JD is rare (although that is changing). even though my jurisdiction will not acknowledge a JD as a JD, these international law firms do.

Ah I see. Not sure I fully understand, but I think you know your situation better than anyone here so do what YOU think is best.
yes, my situation is unique. I know what i am doing after law school. I just need help with picking a law school. really mostly based on issues other than job prospects (other than summer).

Well if cost is not an issue and jobs are not an issue, I would go to the school with the best reputation in your home country or where you would like to live for three years.

RedBirds2011 · Post by **RedBirds2011** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:39 am

Yea, and I just saw you mentioned no money issue. From my limited knowledge of your situation, visit all schools and whichever you think is coolest got to I guess lol you'll honestly probably get the same education no matter what.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:42 am

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:43 am

Well if cost is not an issue and jobs are not an issue, I would go to the school with the best reputation in your home country or where you would like to live for three years.

yep, any input for priorities 2,3,4 for Miami and L&C wold be nice. that is all i need. will make a deposit to one of them within a week.

Thanks guys!

Gavel · Post by **Gavel** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:46 am

rad lulz wrote:I can't think of a single US biglaw firm that has offices abroad that recruits fresh JD grads at OCI (exception being a couple UK firms in London). When I've seen recruitment ads for these offices for US JDs (no previous foreign degree, not LLM students), it looks like they normally take other big firm laterals or transfers from their other offices.

So unless the channels to hiring at these firms are TOTALLY different than traditional OCI and have DRASTICALLY lower standards than biglaw recruiting in the states (they may be), I don't think your plan is feasible given that these schools don't offer good biglaw prospects to begin with.

Talk to some associates at these firms if you can and figure out how they got there, especially if they have been hired DIRECTLY into the office (which is what you want).

Will do that. Thanks for the tip.

Tom Joad · Post by **Tom Joad** » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:48 am

rad lulz wrote:I can't think of a single US biglaw firm that has offices abroad that recruits fresh JD grads at OCI (exception being a couple UK firms in London). When I've seen recruitment ads for these offices for US JDs (no previous foreign degree, not LLM students), it looks like they normally take other big firm laterals or transfers from their other offices.

So unless the channels to hiring at these firms are TOTALLY different than traditional OCI and have DRASTICALLY lower standards than biglaw recruiting in the states (they may be), I don't think your plan is feasible given that these schools don't offer good biglaw prospects to begin with.

Talk to some associates at these firms if you can and figure out how they got there, especially if they have been hired DIRECTLY into the office (which is what you want).

I have no idea about your situation and I doubt anybody else knows exactly what your situation is, but I have a feeling this post could save you hundreds of thousands of dollars if heeded.

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