Campbell Law?

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jsvaughn
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby jsvaughn » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:34 pm

skw wrote:
SunshineMagic wrote:This is soooo dumb if you would be attending campbell at zero cost with zero debt and want to stay in Raleigh/triangle area for good then go to campbell over commuting an hour to class at UNC where you would still be looking at 90k-100k dollars in debt for instate tuition.... Would you rather come out of school with a small mortgage or come out owing nothing? Yes you might not get a job... but you could also not get a job out of UNC and have a 100k in debt....


How on earth is living with her husband near Raleigh and paying in-state tuition (which, if you include books is something close to $40k max over all 3 years) going to put her $90k in debt? Additionally, if she can get a FULL scholarship at Campbell, she is $ eligible at Carolina as well, even in state. I got in initially w/out scholarships at UNC -- Campbell awarded me half tuition. I've got to think that means anyone being awarded FULL tuition at Campbell is going to be more competitive for UNC $...



In-State tuition alone is over $19,000 at UNC. Going to to be well over 40k for all 3 years.

Commuting to Chapel Hill from Raleigh is no where close to an hour. With no traffic its less than 30 minutes. Rush hour on 40 can get pretty backed up though. I make this drive about 4 times a week.

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:58 pm

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Last edited by BlueJeanBaby on Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JasonR
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby JasonR » Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:47 pm

seancris wrote:With $0 debt, I'm afraid I'm not seeing the risk here. True, she might not get a legal job at the end of it. But she might, and it's not costing her anything to pursue it. This sounds like a risk-free way to pursue her goals.


Throwing away three years of earnings ($120-150,000) for a degree that has a frighteningly high chance of being completely worthless is pretty damned risky.

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seancris
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby seancris » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:33 pm

JasonR wrote:
seancris wrote:With $0 debt, I'm afraid I'm not seeing the risk here. True, she might not get a legal job at the end of it. But she might, and it's not costing her anything to pursue it. This sounds like a risk-free way to pursue her goals.


Throwing away three years of earnings ($120-150,000) for a degree that has a frighteningly high chance of being completely worthless is pretty damned risky.


Opportunity cost isn't really a risk IMO. You make that decision up front, and you will lose those earnings by attending any law school, not just Campbell.

Alternatively she can avoid the debt by attending Campbell, whereas she would only acquire the debt by going to UNC or another higher ranked school. Debt is a risk, whereas opportunity cost is not, because you don't decide to default on your loans. You sign up for the loans assuming that you will be able to pay them down.

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icecold3000
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby icecold3000 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:25 pm

OP: Are you paying out of pocket instead of taking loans? According to LSAC, 0% of Campbell students receive full tuition scholarships.

Also you might want to check out http://www.lawschooltransparency.com.

According to that website, out of the 97 Campbell graduates from 2009:

88.6% were employed full time
62.8% in a law firm
79.8% in jobs requiring a JD
8.2% unemployed

Far from guaranteeing a legal job, but not quite as bad as some previous posters alluded to.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:57 pm

icecold3000 wrote:OP: Are you paying out of pocket instead of taking loans? According to LSAC, 0% of Campbell students receive full tuition scholarships.

Also you might want to check out http://www.lawschooltransparency.com.

According to that website, out of the 97 Campbell graduates from 2009:

88.6% were employed full time
62.8% in a law firm
79.8% in jobs requiring a JD
8.2% unemployed

Far from guaranteeing a legal job, but not quite as bad as some previous posters alluded to.
Class of 2009 did OCI at the peak of the hiring boom. Things have gotten much, much worse.

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icecold3000
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby icecold3000 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:59 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
icecold3000 wrote:OP: Are you paying out of pocket instead of taking loans? According to LSAC, 0% of Campbell students receive full tuition scholarships.

Also you might want to check out http://www.lawschooltransparency.com.

According to that website, out of the 97 Campbell graduates from 2009:

88.6% were employed full time
62.8% in a law firm
79.8% in jobs requiring a JD
8.2% unemployed

Far from guaranteeing a legal job, but not quite as bad as some previous posters alluded to.
Class of 2009 did OCI at the peak of the hiring boom. Things have gotten much, much worse.


This is true, things have gotten worse. How much worse for Campbell? I don't know.

It looks like OCI has never been very large at Campbell. Look how small the list of past recruiters is at Campbell's OCI (--LinkRemoved--).

seanPtheB
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby seanPtheB » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:21 am

timbs4339 wrote:OP: Are their any GPA/class rank stipulations on the full scholarship?


How the hell is this thread on page 2 without this being answered yet

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:56 am

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:02 pm

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seancris
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby seancris » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:16 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:OP: Are their any GPA/class rank stipulations on the full scholarship?


How the hell is this thread on page 2 without this being answered yet


I never said I had a full scholarship. I said it would be free. This is primarily from scholarship, and the rest an opportunity presented to me by an employer.


You said you were employed by a law firm. So this law firm is also going to be subsidizing your legal education? Seems like you'll have a great shot at working there when you graduate.

tarheel87
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby tarheel87 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:21 pm

This is all a moot point because CAMPBELL DOES NOT OFFER FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIPS or anything close to it ($16k or so is the upper limit if I recall from when my friends were all applying).

Really not a bad school though otherwise.

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:30 am

tarheel87 wrote:This is all a moot point because CAMPBELL DOES NOT OFFER FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIPS or anything close to it ($16k or so is the upper limit if I recall from when my friends were all applying).

Really not a bad school though otherwise.


Please refer to the post 3 above yours.

And just to verify, I was very curious that there were absolutely no full scholarships awarded. LSAC's ABA data accounts for 5 individuals to have accepted full tuition scholarships as of last year at Campbell last year. I'm assuming more than that were offered.

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seancris
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby seancris » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:54 am

http://campbell.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats

Small sample size, but it seems like even the "best" applicants were getting a max of 16k. Last cycle a 3.9/167 reported 17k. Not even sure if that's annual, renewable, TTT stips, or what.

I would be pretty wary of whatever stips Campbell puts on a scholarship, though. I don't know what their stips are, but make damn sure that you'll be able to meet them. Under no circumstances would Campbell be worth sticker, subsidized by an employer or not.

SunshineMagic
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby SunshineMagic » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:35 am

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
seanPtheB wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:OP: Are their any GPA/class rank stipulations on the full scholarship?


How the hell is this thread on page 2 without this being answered yet


I never said I had a full scholarship. I said it would be free. This is primarily from scholarship, and the rest an opportunity presented to me by an employer.


This should be a no brainer go to Campbell!!!!!

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:52 am

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:59 pm

I am bumping this to ask another question. I am still considering Campbell law this semester vs. applying to UNC next year. I noticed that Campbell does not grade on a 4.0 scale, but rather out of 100 (my scholarship stip. is based on an 82). Will this turn employers off from my application for summer employment (yes, yes, aside from being a Campbell law student). Also, how will this translate if I do attempt to transfer somewhere?

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:01 pm

tarheel87 wrote:This is all a moot point because CAMPBELL DOES NOT OFFER FULL TUITION SCHOLARSHIPS or anything close to it ($16k or so is the upper limit if I recall from when my friends were all applying).

Really not a bad school though otherwise.


I did want to go back and reply to this. Your information is inaccurate as my scholarship offer is significantly higher than 16k/year.

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skw
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby skw » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:00 am

BlueJeanBaby wrote:I am bumping this to ask another question. I am still considering Campbell law this semester vs. applying to UNC next year. I noticed that Campbell does not grade on a 4.0 scale, but rather out of 100 (my scholarship stip. is based on an 82). Will this turn employers off from my application for summer employment (yes, yes, aside from being a Campbell law student). Also, how will this translate if I do attempt to transfer somewhere?



I don't think employers will care. They're looking at how you're ranked compared to your classmates, so since everyone at Campbell is on the 100 point scale, it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure how it impacts transfer, but keep in mind if you're thinking of a transfer to UNC, they're unlikely to consider an in-state transfer. Normally their transfers are contingent on some compelling reason you need to transfer (e.g. not because you like Carolina better than another NC school). But if you're thinking you may end up needing a different state based on your husband's base changing, I think many schools would consider that a compelling reason.

A couple other points. Campbell makes their students take ALL the bar classes. This leaves you much less free to choose electives in a certain area of law that may be of interest to you and your future career. They have excellent bar passage rates due tot his, but not so much higher than Carolina that I'd trade freedom to take more interesting electives for it. (E.g. I'd rather take bar classes applicable to my career and learn the non-applicable ones during bar prep). Also, my understanding is that all Campbell's exams are closed book. Few of Carolina's are closed. While it is not substantially different to prepare for a closed versus open book exam (you've got to know the law cold to do well on either), it IS more stressful to take a closed book exam, and if your scholly hangs on making an 82, that adds even more stress.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

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BlueJeanBaby
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:45 am

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Last edited by BlueJeanBaby on Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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skw
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby skw » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:21 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
skw wrote:
BlueJeanBaby wrote:I am bumping this to ask another question. I am still considering Campbell law this semester vs. applying to UNC next year. I noticed that Campbell does not grade on a 4.0 scale, but rather out of 100 (my scholarship stip. is based on an 82). Will this turn employers off from my application for summer employment (yes, yes, aside from being a Campbell law student). Also, how will this translate if I do attempt to transfer somewhere?



I don't think employers will care. They're looking at how you're ranked compared to your classmates, so since everyone at Campbell is on the 100 point scale, it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure how it impacts transfer, but keep in mind if you're thinking of a transfer to UNC, they're unlikely to consider an in-state transfer. Normally their transfers are contingent on some compelling reason you need to transfer (e.g. not because you like Carolina better than another NC school). But if you're thinking you may end up needing a different state based on your husband's base changing, I think many schools would consider that a compelling reason.

A couple other points. Campbell makes their students take ALL the bar classes. This leaves you much less free to choose electives in a certain area of law that may be of interest to you and your future career. They have excellent bar passage rates due tot his, but not so much higher than Carolina that I'd trade freedom to take more interesting electives for it. (E.g. I'd rather take bar classes applicable to my career and learn the non-applicable ones during bar prep). Also, my understanding is that all Campbell's exams are closed book. Few of Carolina's are closed. While it is not substantially different to prepare for a closed versus open book exam (you've got to know the law cold to do well on either), it IS more stressful to take a closed book exam, and if your scholly hangs on making an 82, that adds even more stress.

Good luck, whatever you decide.


Thank you. After more consideration and speaking with some graduates and potential employers, I think I am going to pay my seat deposit at Campbell this week. I am hoping to end up working at the legal office on base and spoke with a few different JAG offices about the percentage of civilian attorneys they hire-- it was very promising. Being that my husband is in the military, I will be given a "boost" in applications, etc. Money isn't great but at least I won't be in debt!
I know that Campbell is a Tier 4 school, but everyone I have spoken with in the Raleigh area respects it. My quality of life would be much better there- being able to live with my husband and dogs is very important to me :). I think I need to just accept that I am going to a lower ranked school and try to compensate for it by doing as well as I can and networking as much as possible. If I do well, I will consider a transfer to a higher ranked school (all depending on my husband's deployment schedule, etc) but I am not banking on it in any means. Here goes nothing, I guess.


Congratulations! It sounds like this is the right decision for you. You've got a solid plan, job prospects and no debt coming out of school to look forward to. Deposit and enjoy your summer -- then 1L will be a whirlwind, but you'll make it through:-)

tigyrgrl
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby tigyrgrl » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:42 pm

I work at a law firm with a couple of the partners being Campbell Law alums. I think if you are going to end up in little or no debt, it is definitely worth it. In this part of North Carolina boutique law firms like Campbell alums, because (according to attorneys and judges locally) they frequently come with more work experience and chances at longevity with a small to mid size firm.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:45 pm

tigyrgrl wrote:I work at a law firm with a couple of the partners being Campbell Law alums. I think if you are going to end up in little or no debt, it is definitely worth it. In this part of North Carolina boutique law firms like Campbell alums, because (according to attorneys and judges locally) they frequently come with more work experience and chances at longevity with a small to mid size firm.

This is the same bullcrap that all terrible law schools spout. If these law schools were really that good at placing with small (read: probably shitty and miserable) legal jobs then their employment numbers wouldn't be such garbage. Also, even going for free has an opportunity cost. I'd rather work an unskilled entry-level job than piss away 3 years of my life at a law school that won't get me any good employment (with a healthy chance of making me less employable).

timbs4339
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:04 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
skw wrote:
BlueJeanBaby wrote:I am bumping this to ask another question. I am still considering Campbell law this semester vs. applying to UNC next year. I noticed that Campbell does not grade on a 4.0 scale, but rather out of 100 (my scholarship stip. is based on an 82). Will this turn employers off from my application for summer employment (yes, yes, aside from being a Campbell law student). Also, how will this translate if I do attempt to transfer somewhere?



I don't think employers will care. They're looking at how you're ranked compared to your classmates, so since everyone at Campbell is on the 100 point scale, it shouldn't be an issue. I'm not sure how it impacts transfer, but keep in mind if you're thinking of a transfer to UNC, they're unlikely to consider an in-state transfer. Normally their transfers are contingent on some compelling reason you need to transfer (e.g. not because you like Carolina better than another NC school). But if you're thinking you may end up needing a different state based on your husband's base changing, I think many schools would consider that a compelling reason.

A couple other points. Campbell makes their students take ALL the bar classes. This leaves you much less free to choose electives in a certain area of law that may be of interest to you and your future career. They have excellent bar passage rates due tot his, but not so much higher than Carolina that I'd trade freedom to take more interesting electives for it. (E.g. I'd rather take bar classes applicable to my career and learn the non-applicable ones during bar prep). Also, my understanding is that all Campbell's exams are closed book. Few of Carolina's are closed. While it is not substantially different to prepare for a closed versus open book exam (you've got to know the law cold to do well on either), it IS more stressful to take a closed book exam, and if your scholly hangs on making an 82, that adds even more stress.

Good luck, whatever you decide.


Thank you. After more consideration and speaking with some graduates and potential employers, I think I am going to pay my seat deposit at Campbell this week. I am hoping to end up working at the legal office on base and spoke with a few different JAG offices about the percentage of civilian attorneys they hire-- it was very promising. Being that my husband is in the military, I will be given a "boost" in applications, etc. Money isn't great but at least I won't be in debt!
I know that Campbell is a Tier 4 school, but everyone I have spoken with in the Raleigh area respects it. My quality of life would be much better there- being able to live with my husband and dogs is very important to me :). I think I need to just accept that I am going to a lower ranked school and try to compensate for it by doing as well as I can and networking as much as possible. If I do well, I will consider a transfer to a higher ranked school (all depending on my husband's deployment schedule, etc) but I am not banking on it in any means. Here goes nothing, I guess.


Have you checked out the curve at Campbell? What is the curve? Many lower ranked law schools have very tough curves- the median grade is a C or a 75 and they are very tight meaning that grades are bunched up around median. I would also want to know if the school places a disproportionate number of scholarship students in one section so that they end up competing against each other on the curve and more will lose their scholarships. Ask around to find this out because I doubt the school will tell you, but they might disclose the number of students who keep their scholly if you ask.

It sounds like the scholly is a significant amount even if it is not the full. Perhaps you should test it out this year but be prepared to drop out if you don't renew. It will be much easier to get your old job back after one year than three.

tigyrgrl
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Re: Campbell Law?

Postby tigyrgrl » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:08 pm

I was not stating what the law school was putting out. I was stating what I have personally heard from those working in the specific law environment jobs the OP was interested in.




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