Please Help

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swishin and dishin
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Please Help

Postby swishin and dishin » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:29 pm

Hey everyone,
I appreciate any and all advice. I am in a tough spot right now with deciding what school to attend, and am hoping for some good input.

My girlfriend is in South Jersey. My goal is to live within a reasonable distance of her.
I am most interested in disability law, but am not turned off by the idea of using my JD tax or entertainment as well. As of right now, I can't really pin down my interests to one particular field of law.
I would love a nice paycheck, but I would be ecstatic if I left school making between 80-100,000, with a higher earning potential.
I will graduate with a JD and an MBA.

In alphabetical order, to avoid any presupposed order, here is what I have narrowed my list down to:

Boston U: total scholly 75,000
Cardozo: full
Fordham: totally scholly 90,000
Villanova: full

Also in at:
UNC Chapel Hill: total scholly 30,000
William and Mary: total scholly 24,000
UConn: waiting to hear back
Brooklyn: 32,000/ year

I have pros and cons for each school, but am eager to hear what you guys may have to say.

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bk1
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Re: Please Help

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:33 pm

Where do you want to work? NYC? Boston? Somewhere else?

Do you mean you already have an MBA or that you are doing the JD/MBA programs at these schools (meaning that they will cost more than a traditional JD)?

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basilseal
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Re: Please Help

Postby basilseal » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:36 pm

Also give us the stips on those scholarships.

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jetissent
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Re: Please Help

Postby jetissent » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:38 pm

Hmm tough call at the moment. I'd be torn between BU and Fordham. Probably give F the edge because of the extra money (depending on stipulations).

Any reason you didn't apply to UPenn? If you could get your LSAT up even 2-3 points with a 3.8 you'd have a pretty great shot at getting in to an awesome school right outside South Jersey.

Good luck!

swishin and dishin
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Re: Please Help

Postby swishin and dishin » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:43 pm

Thanks all

I would love to work in NYC or Philly, I don't see myself continuing in Boston if I went to BU, and I have been told that the school's rep carries throughout most of the North East

I did apply to Penn, but still have not heard back
I am also pretty debt averse (as I am sure most of you on here are)

Cardozo, Fordham and Nova are all guaranteed scholarships
I can't find the stipulations for BU, so lets assume it is the standard offer

My plan was to enter into a joint program at Nova. The others would be strictly law.

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Samara
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Re: Please Help

Postby Samara » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:47 pm

It's definitely BU vs. Fordham IMO. I'd probably pick Fordham. They're both comparable in job prospects for NYC, probably comparable in price after COL is factored in, but Fordham is closer to South Jersey.

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bk1
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Re: Please Help

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:48 pm

You're stuck in hard spot, imo. On one hand your best options have pretty large scholarships (BU/Fordham), yet they are not large enough to bring your debt to a reasonable level. You're still going to be almost 150k debt coming out of those schools. On the other hand, the employment outcomes at Cardozo/Villanova are frightening (heck it's frightening at BU/Fordham, it's just worse at T2's).

I'd probably say Fordham but honestly wouldn't really want to accept that offer unless they tossed an additional 10k/year your way.

rwhyAn
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Re: Please Help

Postby rwhyAn » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:49 pm

You would love to work in NY or Philly, you want to stay close to your gf in South Jersey, and you got a full ride at Villanova. To me, it seems like a no-brainer--Nova fulfills all of your criteria and will leave you with the least debt.

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dingbat
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Re: Please Help

Postby dingbat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:05 pm

bk1 wrote:You're stuck in hard spot, imo. On one hand your best options have pretty large scholarships (BU/Fordham), yet they are not large enough to bring your debt to a reasonable level. You're still going to be almost 150k debt coming out of those schools. On the other hand, the employment outcomes at Cardozo/Villanova are frightening (heck it's frightening at BU/Fordham, it's just worse at T2's).

I'd probably say Fordham but honestly wouldn't really want to accept that offer unless they tossed an additional 10k/year your way.

Are you on crack? Even excluding the possibility of a paid SA position, with that scholly, total COA at Forsham should be under $110k (under $100k is possible) and 'Dozo at $65k
I don't know about the other two cities, but it should be equivalent

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dingbat
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Re: Please Help

Postby dingbat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:12 pm

Samara wrote:It's definitely BU vs. Fordham IMO. I'd probably pick Fordham. They're both comparable in job prospects for NYC, probably comparable in price after COL is factored in, but Fordham is closer to South Jersey.

This.
An argument can be made for 'nova, but I don't know enough about the school or the Philly market to offer any useful commentary there

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bk1
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Re: Please Help

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:19 pm

dingbat wrote:Are you on crack? Even excluding the possibility of a paid SA position, with that scholly, total COA at Forsham should be under $110k (under $100k is possible) and 'Dozo at $65k
I don't know about the other two cities, but it should be equivalent


Current CoA at Fordham is 73.5k (http://law.fordham.edu/financial-aid/1890.htm). This does not include CoL during the summer nor does it include probable increases in tuition. Let's just say, hypothetically, that Fordham overestimates the cost of living but we'll cancel that out with the cost of summer that is not included. With a 30k scholly, OP will be paying 43.5k a year which will end up as 130k principle debt. Factor in interest (--LinkRemoved--) and voila, 150k debt at graduation. A paid SA position isn't really relevant when you have to factor in 3 summers worth of living costs that Fordahm's CoA does not (1L summer, 2L summer, postgrad summer spent studying the bar). Not to mention that an SA position is not guaranteed so should not be factored in.

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Br3v
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Re: Please Help

Postby Br3v » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:27 pm

Does BU and F really place same in NYC?

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dingbat
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Re: Please Help

Postby dingbat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:47 pm

bk1 wrote:
dingbat wrote:Are you on crack? Even excluding the possibility of a paid SA position, with that scholly, total COA at Forsham should be under $110k (under $100k is possible) and 'Dozo at $65k
I don't know about the other two cities, but it should be equivalent


Current CoA at Fordham is 73.5k (http://law.fordham.edu/financial-aid/1890.htm). This does not include CoL during the summer nor does it include probable increases in tuition. Let's just say, hypothetically, that Fordham overestimates the cost of living but we'll cancel that out with the cost of summer that is not included. With a 30k scholly, OP will be paying 43.5k a year which will end up as 130k principle debt. Factor in interest (--LinkRemoved--) and voila, 150k debt at graduation. A paid SA position isn't really relevant when you have to factor in 3 summers worth of living costs that Fordahm's CoA does not (1L summer, 2L summer, postgrad summer spent studying the bar). Not to mention that an SA position is not guaranteed so should not be factored in.

I actually thought about that after I posted, and I'll apologize for my tone and concede the point.
However, it is not difficult to live off $20k per year in NY (for 12 months) if one chooses to do so. If you buy your books second hand and sell them afterwards, it should be possible to keep costs under $100k for all 3 years.
NY being NY, it's just as easy to spend $100k per year though

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dingbat
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Re: Please Help

Postby dingbat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:50 pm

Br3v wrote:Does BU and F really place same in NYC?

No. An argument can be made that they have similar biglaw placement in NY (which I don't believe - but it's hard to figure out the impact of self-selection), but once you take that out of the equation, Fordham definately has a leg up in NY midlaw and I suspect NY government or PI jobs as well.

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spleenworship
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Re: Please Help

Postby spleenworship » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:02 pm

I have heard (secondhand, FWIW) that if you want to work in Philly, Nova=Temple.

So I would be tempted to take Villanova. If not, I would take Fordham.

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bk1
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Re: Please Help

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:21 pm

dingbat wrote:I actually thought about that after I posted, and I'll apologize for my tone and concede the point.
However, it is not difficult to live off $20k per year in NY (for 12 months) if one chooses to do so. If you buy your books second hand and sell them afterwards, it should be possible to keep costs under $100k for all 3 years.
NY being NY, it's just as easy to spend $100k per year though


No problem. Even at 20k/year that's 110k principle debt, which equates to almost 130k at graduation. That being said I will concede any sort of knowledge as to how cheaply OP since I have never lived in or near NYC. Though I think the larger point should be that most students probably won't end up living that cheaply.

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dingbat
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Re: Please Help

Postby dingbat » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:57 pm

bk1 wrote:
dingbat wrote:I actually thought about that after I posted, and I'll apologize for my tone and concede the point.
However, it is not difficult to live off $20k per year in NY (for 12 months) if one chooses to do so. If you buy your books second hand and sell them afterwards, it should be possible to keep costs under $100k for all 3 years.
NY being NY, it's just as easy to spend $100k per year though


No problem. Even at 20k/year that's 110k principle debt, which equates to almost 130k at graduation. That being said I will concede any sort of knowledge as to how cheaply OP since I have never lived in or near NYC. Though I think the larger point should be that most students probably won't end up living that cheaply.

Honestly, you're right - few people wish to live like a pauper.
Particularly students who think the world is their oyster

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MTBike
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Re: Please Help

Postby MTBike » Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:10 pm

dingbat wrote:Particularly students who think the world is their oyster


Wait... are you telling me the world ISN'T my oyster? No.... no... it has to be. Because I am special.

swishin and dishin
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Re: Please Help

Postby swishin and dishin » Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:37 pm

Thank you for all the insight.
It has been terrific moving forwards.




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