Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

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krlf
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Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:43 am

I've been mostly reading as a lurker on TLS, but I think my friends are tired of hearing details of law school so I thought I'd share here...

I had a school GPA of 3.80, an LSAC calculated one of 3.93. My October LSAT was 167, which was low, so I retook in February and got a 174.

I was accepted to UT under early admission, no scholarship. When I increased my LSAT score they gave me $45K ($15K for 3 years).

Despite being before official deadlines I guess I probably applied too late (mid-February) to the rest. I got accepted to Northwestern last Thursday, and wait-listed at Virginia and Minnesota. Still waiting to hear from Duke and Pennsylvania. I just submitted the supplemental scholarship essays for Northwestern on Tuesday.

I currently live in Austin, so UT is a really attractive choice, but Northwestern is more firmly in the T14 and the more I read about it the more compelling it seems, so I'm hoping for a decent scholarship from them. We'll see...

lawlcat4179
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby lawlcat4179 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:47 am

The correct answer is neither. Wait a year and enjoy Harvard.

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Bronck
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby Bronck » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:49 am

lawlcat4179 wrote:The correct answer is neither. Wait a year and enjoy Harvard.


+1

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bk1
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:55 am

With a 3.9/174 you should get some hefty T14 scholarships. Nothing wrong with taking a ton of money from UT but 15k/year at UT is definitely an underperformance for your numbers.

If you don't get a lot of money to a T14+UT or get into HYS (and are fine with it at sticker), I would reapply next cycle.

krlf
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:59 am

I couldn't tell if the Harvard suggestion was serious...

I haven't really considered the topmost top schools. I just plugged my numbers into lawschoolpredictor and they listed Harvard and Yale as "consider"s (using the highest 174/3.93)?

Am I really supposed to be ignoring that 167 now?

krlf
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:01 am

bk1 wrote:If you don't get a lot of money to a T14+UT or get into HYS (and are fine with it at sticker), I would reapply next cycle.


What would be "a lot"?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:03 am

krlf wrote:
bk1 wrote:If you don't get a lot of money to a T14+UT or get into HYS (and are fine with it at sticker), I would reapply next cycle.


What would be "a lot"?

literally full ride for anything below CCN

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:05 am

krlf wrote:I couldn't tell if the Harvard suggestion was serious...

I haven't really considered the topmost top schools. I just plugged my numbers into lawschoolpredictor and they listed Harvard and Yale as "consider"s (using the highest 174/3.93)?

Am I really supposed to be ignoring that 167 now?

For the most part, but YSH may consider the lower score to some extent. H almost definitely going to accept you though

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:08 am

1) If you want to stay in Texas, UT @ like 15k a year is a much better option than NU at sticker (assuming if no scholarship is given).
2) That said, you are still being lowballed by UT with those stats.
3) You really should reapply. You have a shot a HYS. You have a shot at significant money from T10 schools. UT might still be an option a year from now, but only if it's a full-ride.

krlf
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:19 am

Sorry for all the basic questions. You guys are saying stuff I haven't thought applied to me before, so taking it all in... I guess I should have posted sooner...

When you say "full-ride", do you mean tuition or living costs too?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:21 am

krlf wrote:Sorry for all the basic questions. You guys are saying stuff I haven't thought applied to me before, so taking it all in... I guess I should have posted sooner...

When you say "full-ride", do you mean tuition or living costs too?

in general, just tuition. There are some scholarships that give a COL stipend, but that's more the icing on the cake than anything

rad lulz
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:22 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Doorkeeper
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby Doorkeeper » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:53 am

lawlcat4179 wrote:The correct answer is neither. Wait a year and enjoy Harvard.

This is correct.

At the very least, if you apply next year you will be looking at HYS vs. CCN with some money vs. full tuition scholarships at MVPB.

Don't go this year to UT or Northwestern unless either give you a full ride.

krlf
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:41 pm

Well you guys definitely have me thinking about this. Thanks for all of the info and support.

I was planning on doing a dual JD/MSSW if going to UT, so it might actually be pretty easy to just enroll in the MSSW program this fall for the first year of SW, while I do the apply-much-earlier for law next year thing. *If* I can do some fancy legwork and they'll still let me have SW electives waived if I'm doing law at a not-UT school. (I have no idea if this is possible yet.)

So what would that look like? Would I reject UT's/Northwestern's offer this year then reapply next year? Explain somehow why I did that in statements? Try to defer and ask for scholarships again next year?

justinp
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby justinp » Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:25 pm

OP-- the advice in this thread is really good. Find a not-too-stressful job and wait it out for a year-- work experience is supposed to be a plus anyways. Make sure all your essays, transcripts, and LORs are ready to go so that you can submit apps in September when they co up online, and enjoy your wave of T14 acceptances. You're on track for consideration at HYS, and will likely get into most schools on down, with a good deal of money at some.

Congrats!

EdgarWinter
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby EdgarWinter » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:14 pm

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Last edited by EdgarWinter on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ti Malice
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:08 am

krlf wrote:So what would that look like? Would I reject UT's/Northwestern's offer this year then reapply next year? Explain somehow why I did that in statements? Try to defer and ask for scholarships again next year?


Just decline their offers and apply to higher-ranked schools next year. Include them next year, if you want. You don't need to explain anything. And no deferring.

Just to add my voice to the refrain: As long as you don't have some criminal or academic dishonesty issue, have good LORs, can write competently, and don't come across as a dangerous sociopath, you are at minimum a lock for NYU. Chicago and Columbia are very likely, and Harvard is definitely within reach (Yale and Stanford are, of course, unpredictable). You might well get some money from the first three, and you're looking at very significant money at many of the schools after the top six. Just apply early next year. Don't waste those numbers. Your greater opportunities and earning potential would make up for the extra year and the modest offers you'd be giving up several times over.

woeisme
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby woeisme » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:28 pm

krlf wrote:I couldn't tell if the Harvard suggestion was serious...

I haven't really considered the topmost top schools. I just plugged my numbers into lawschoolpredictor and they listed Harvard and Yale as "consider"s (using the highest 174/3.93)?

Am I really supposed to be ignoring that 167 now?


HYS are still reaches to be sure. But yes, basically ignore the 167. Even if it's still considered, at the very least you'd have like a 170/171 (averaging the two scores). Depending on your career goals and current opportunities, I'd consider reapplying next year.

krlf
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:01 pm

Talked to the UT MSSW office and the idea of trying to start that this fall and law somewhere else next fall is a no go. They won't let me take classes at other times when they are offered. Only the straight-up 2 year Masters program, or 4-year with UT law will work for them. So if I delay law by a year I can't get started on that this fall.

For some other details, I am a lady OP, for the record. Also, I've been working at a big tech company for the last 10 years, so I don't exactly need more work experience. I left that job to take a bit of a break and live on some savings for the summer, until school and financial aid starts in the fall. Delaying without starting some kind of education would mean needing another job in the meantime, which isn't horrible, I'm just really ready to go back to school.

I've got some decent softs, with volunteer/life experience. I also grew up poor, was in foster care for awhile, lived completely independently since the age of 16, etc. So my statement tells a pretty decent story.

I'm pretty sure I want to begin in some kind of public service, considering ideas like a lawyer->judge path, but also thinking about working for organizations with more of a national reach, where bigger names would still make me more competitive. I'd like to get a clerkship. I'm not setting anything in stone, because I know I'll figure it out as I learn more.

I'm going to be going to UT's admitted students days next week, and trying to figure out the travel to go to Northwestern's in a few. Waiting to hear from Northwestern about their scholarship offer, then UT about matching, then go from there I guess.

krlf
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby krlf » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:08 pm

Northwestern has offered me $150K. I also got accepted to Penn on Wednesday.

HookemHooker
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby HookemHooker » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:43 pm

Send in your matching scholarship application to UT as soon as possible. Make sure to mention your acceptance to Penn even though you don't have $ yet. Your UT package will go up dramatically. You might even be able to get as close to a full ride as you can get. Congrats on your success.

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rayiner
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby rayiner » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:47 pm

I'm pretty sure I want to begin in some kind of public service, considering ideas like a lawyer->judge path, but also thinking about working for organizations with more of a national reach, where bigger names would still make me more competitive. I'd like to get a clerkship


All of these weigh dramatically for waiting a year to see if you get into Harvard/Yale/Stanford. I think with your great GPA and a 10 years at a tech company, along with compelling story, you have as good a shot as anyone at those schools.

The areas you're interested in are the areas where it really makes sense to turn down a full scholarship at Northwestern to go to Harvard. Harvard places more than twice as many people into federal clerkships as most of the rest of T14, and Yale and Stanford place about three times as many. Just go to this site: http://clerkshipscramble.blogspot.com, look at the various circuits, and see how omnipresent "HLS" and "YLS" and "SLS" are on there.

Even if you end up at the top of your class, there are measurable differences in opportunities from YHS. Someone right at the top 10% at UT or NU will certainly get a great job at a law firm, but will have an uphill battle getting an appellate clerkship (the sort of qualification that lines the road to a judgeship). Meanwhile, top 10% at HLS is legitimately competitive for any legal job that's out there. There are even law firms (Susman, Munger, etc) that will look seriously at a top 10% candidate at HYS but not even consider someone from UT or NU that isn't closer to top 1-2%.
Last edited by rayiner on Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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coldshoulder
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby coldshoulder » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:48 pm

krlf wrote:Talked to the UT MSSW office and the idea of trying to start that this fall and law somewhere else next fall is a no go. They won't let me take classes at other times when they are offered. Only the straight-up 2 year Masters program, or 4-year with UT law will work for them. So if I delay law by a year I can't get started on that this fall.

For some other details, I am a lady OP, for the record. Also, I've been working at a big tech company for the last 10 years, so I don't exactly need more work experience. I left that job to take a bit of a break and live on some savings for the summer, until school and financial aid starts in the fall. Delaying without starting some kind of education would mean needing another job in the meantime, which isn't horrible, I'm just really ready to go back to school.

I've got some decent softs, with volunteer/life experience. I also grew up poor, was in foster care for awhile, lived completely independently since the age of 16, etc. So my statement tells a pretty decent story.

I'm pretty sure I want to begin in some kind of public service, considering ideas like a lawyer->judge path, but also thinking about working for organizations with more of a national reach, where bigger names would still make me more competitive. I'd like to get a clerkship. I'm not setting anything in stone, because I know I'll figure it out as I learn more.

I'm going to be going to UT's admitted students days next week, and trying to figure out the travel to go to Northwestern's in a few. Waiting to hear from Northwestern about their scholarship offer, then UT about matching, then go from there I guess.


You seriously have the credentials to get into YHS. I know it sucks to put off, but you'd be crazy not to wait a year.

09042014
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:54 pm

rayiner wrote:
I'm pretty sure I want to begin in some kind of public service, considering ideas like a lawyer->judge path, but also thinking about working for organizations with more of a national reach, where bigger names would still make me more competitive. I'd like to get a clerkship


All of these weigh dramatically for waiting a year to see if you get into Harvard/Yale/Stanford. I think with your great GPA and a 10 years at a tech company, along with compelling story, you have as good a shot as anyone at those schools.

The areas you're interested in are the areas where it really makes sense to turn down a full scholarship at Northwestern to go to Harvard. Harvard places more than twice as many people into federal clerkships as most of the rest of T14, and Yale and Stanford place about three times as many. Just go to this site: http://clerkshipscramble.blogspot.com, look at the various circuits, and see how omnipresent "HLS" and "YLS" and "SLS" are on there.


I wouldn't base any decision on law school based on clerking (unless it was a tie breaker) for several reasons. You need good grades even from Harvard (obviously you need much better from NW), and it's really only something you do for a year or two. Clerking as the goal doesn't really make sense. It's really a means to an end.

But since the guy wants public service the right call is Harvard. They have an amazing loan forgiveness program and will place better than NW.

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Dany
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Re: Choosing mostly between UT and Northwestern?

Postby Dany » Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 pm

WHOOPS
Last edited by Dany on Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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