Emory Law - To go or not to go...

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flem
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:04 pm


rad lulz
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby rad lulz » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:25 pm

flem wrote:tl;dr

Check this out though

Here's some more due diligence:

This spreadsheet stickied in this forum is where I got the stats, from the released public info (also I don't know why you'd ignore the people who didn't report, since people who are doing well are more likely to report). See also that only 73% of Emory grads in 2010 got a long term (non-business) job. This is a decent approximation for "full time, bar passage required jobs." That means there's a decent shot that you don't even get a real lawyer job, which runs counter to the assumption implicit in your post, that OP will.

$150k on $50k is doable until you want to do stuff like I dunno, have kids, buy a house, or buy a car or whatever, while still putting a dece amount towards retirement. You know, that kind of stuff.

Also PI (though you didn't discuss it much) isn't a decent fallback since all of those are insanely competitive now due to budget cuts and loan forgiveness. At least large firm hiring is up markedly since recession levels.

mattyboy7we
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby mattyboy7we » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:53 pm

rad lulz wrote:
flem wrote:tl;dr

Check this out though

Here's some more due diligence:

This spreadsheet stickied in this forum is where I got the stats, from the released public info (also I don't know why you'd ignore the people who didn't report, since people who are doing well are more likely to report). See also that only 73% of Emory grads in 2010 got a long term (non-business) job. This is a decent approximation for "full time, bar passage required jobs." That means there's a decent shot that you don't even get a real lawyer job, which runs counter to the assumption implicit in your post, that OP will.

$150k on $50k is doable until you want to do stuff like I dunno, have kids, buy a house, or buy a car or whatever, while still putting a dece amount towards retirement. You know, that kind of stuff.

Also PI (though you didn't discuss it much) isn't a decent fallback since all of those are insanely competitive now due to budget cuts and loan forgiveness. At least large firm hiring is up markedly since recession levels.


"only 73% of Emory grads in 2010 got a long term (non-business) job.[/url] This is a decent approximation for full time, bar passage required jobs."

Well based on only being able to see this chart and no background on where it came from or how it was compiled. I'm not sure this proves anything.

The figures are actually from 2011, not 2010 (almost there with your due diligence).

No where does it say what long term means. Is this a full year? If so, then those who obtained jobs after April 26, 2012 would not qualify as long term now would they?

Also, does long term mean one job only? What about those who made lateral job movements in the past year?

How about the money? Wheres that data? LT means nothing without this. University of Houston (ranked 57) has a LT of 89.79%. So by your logic, does this make it better than Emory? Will this ensure OP gets a better salary? Take a wild guess.

The fact is this shows nothing in terms what the starting salary OP may get out of law school. THAT point you seem to have missed again.

But keep going, I am eager to see what else you got.

mattyboy7we
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby mattyboy7we » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:58 pm

flem wrote:tl;dr

Check this out though


I saw this, but if you want to post something relevant to the conversation then you should have posted the graph that corresponds to those who are working in law firms only, and not all jobs: http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2010#curve2

This shows a higher mean and adjusted mean for salaries. But regardless, this is still including all graduates from all law schools (including those from TTT) and is not by itself a completely accurate way to estimate what someone from Emory specifically will make.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby Ruxin1 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:03 pm

mattyboy7we wrote:
flem wrote:tl;dr

Check this out though


I saw this, but if you want to post something relevant to the conversation then you should have posted the graph that corresponds to those who are working in law firms only, and not all jobs: http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2010#curve2

This shows a higher mean and adjusted mean for salaries. But regardless, this is still including all graduates from all law schools (including those from TTT) and is not by itself a completely accurate way to estimate what someone from Emory specifically will make.


The graph above is based on 10,262 replies...

that is great if total number of grads in firms

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flem
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:06 pm

mattyboy7we wrote:
flem wrote:tl;dr

Check this out though


I saw this, but if you want to post something relevant to the conversation then you should have posted the graph that corresponds to those who are working in law firms only, and not all jobs: http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2010#curve2

This shows a higher mean and adjusted mean for salaries. But regardless, this is still including all graduates from all law schools (including those from TTT) and is not by itself a completely accurate way to estimate what someone from Emory specifically will make.


It was supporting the claim that you're either going to make 40-60K or 160K bruh. Even the one you posted still continues to support that.

mattyboy7we
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby mattyboy7we » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:14 pm

flem wrote:
mattyboy7we wrote:
flem wrote:tl;dr

Check this out though


I saw this, but if you want to post something relevant to the conversation then you should have posted the graph that corresponds to those who are working in law firms only, and not all jobs: http://www.nalp.org/salarycurve_classof2010#curve2

This shows a higher mean and adjusted mean for salaries. But regardless, this is still including all graduates from all law schools (including those from TTT) and is not by itself a completely accurate way to estimate what someone from Emory specifically will make.


It was supporting the claim that you're either going to make 40-60K or 160K bruh. Even the one you posted still continues to support that.


It just says that on "average" thats what you are going to make. In a sample based on the entire class of 2010 of course its going to suggest that. It does not help determine what those graduating from EMORY will make specifically, or any school.

Will ~20% of those graduating from Yale make 50k going into private practice? Probably not. Will ~20% of those graduating from Thomas M. Cooley Law School make 160k going into private practice? Nah bruh.

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flem
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:17 pm

mattyboy7we wrote:
It just says that on "average" thats what you are going to make. In a sample based on the entire class of 2010 of course its going to suggest that. It does not help determine what those graduating from EMORY will make specifically, or any school.

Will ~20% of those graduating from Yale make 50k going into private practice? Probably not. Will ~20% of those graduating from Thomas M. Cooley Law School make 160k going into private practice? Nah bruh.


wut? Emory places roughly a 1/3rd into Biglaw jobs. Atlanta biglaw starting salary is 145K. The tip top of the class maybe NYC/DC and made 160K. We can assume that roughly 30% of the class is making 145-160K. The remaining 40% is probably in that 40-60K range.

Bottom third is boned.

That's a lot of debt to take on for a 1 in 3 shot at a job that allows you to service it. Can you pay down 150K on 60K a year comfortably? Yeah, but you'll be paying that shit off until you're 75.

mattyboy7we
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby mattyboy7we » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:34 pm

flem wrote:
mattyboy7we wrote:
It just says that on "average" thats what you are going to make. In a sample based on the entire class of 2010 of course its going to suggest that. It does not help determine what those graduating from EMORY will make specifically, or any school.

Will ~20% of those graduating from Yale make 50k going into private practice? Probably not. Will ~20% of those graduating from Thomas M. Cooley Law School make 160k going into private practice? Nah bruh.


wut? Emory places roughly a 1/3rd into Biglaw jobs. Atlanta biglaw starting salary is 145K. The tip top of the class maybe NYC/DC and made 160K. We can assume that roughly 30% of the class is making 145-160K. The remaining 40% is probably in that 40-60K range.

Bottom third is boned.

That's a lot of debt to take on for a 1 in 3 shot at a job that allows you to service it. Can you pay down 150K on 60K a year comfortably? Yeah, but you'll be paying that shit off until you're 75.


No, you cant just assume that. I'm not sure where you go to school (if your even in law school yet), but you DO NOT need to be in big law to make over 40-60k. This is a fact, not my opinion. You can make 100k+ in a law firm with 99 lawyers, or 75k in a law firm with 5 lawyers.

By just sticking with the chart and using that to base your logic, you are discounting the fact that different law schools have better and worse salary distributions than the "average for the class of 2010 across all law schools."

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flem
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:09 pm

mattyboy7we wrote:
No, you cant just assume that. I'm not sure where you go to school (if your even in law school yet), but you DO NOT need to be in big law to make over 40-60k. This is a fact, not my opinion. You can make 100k+ in a law firm with 99 lawyers, or 75k in a law firm with 5 lawyers.

By just sticking with the chart and using that to base your logic, you are discounting the fact that different law schools have better and worse salary distributions than the "average for the class of 2010 across all law schools."


I'd say my assumption is pretty warranted.

Also it is possible but those jobs are few and far between, hence the salary distribution. Keep in mind when looking at that chart the area between there represents market in secondary and tertiary markets.

Also keep in mind the spike in the 40-60K range should be WAY bigger, as those bros tend to underreport their earnings.

It's not like there's a bunch of midlaw firms that pay 100K that have a ton of jobs. They are few and far between and it's unreasonable to assume that a ton of people end up there when the data says otherwise.

The fact that it's across all schools is kind of irrelevant, especially with the firm data you posted. Random TTT schools have 50% of their class that are not becoming lawyers in the first place.

mattyboy7we
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby mattyboy7we » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:20 pm

flem wrote:
mattyboy7we wrote:
No, you cant just assume that. I'm not sure where you go to school (if your even in law school yet), but you DO NOT need to be in big law to make over 40-60k. This is a fact, not my opinion. You can make 100k+ in a law firm with 99 lawyers, or 75k in a law firm with 5 lawyers.

By just sticking with the chart and using that to base your logic, you are discounting the fact that different law schools have better and worse salary distributions than the "average for the class of 2010 across all law schools."


I'd say my assumption is pretty warranted.

Also it is possible but those jobs are few and far between, hence the salary distribution. Keep in mind when looking at that chart the area between there represents market in secondary and tertiary markets.

Also keep in mind the spike in the 40-60K range should be WAY bigger, as those bros tend to underreport their earnings.

It's not like there's a bunch of midlaw firms that pay 100K that have a ton of jobs. They are few and far between and it's unreasonable to assume that a ton of people end up there when the data says otherwise.

The fact that it's across all schools is kind of irrelevant, especially with the firm data you posted. Random TTT schools have 50% of their class that are not becoming lawyers in the first place.



Fine, then OP just go to whatever school you want, be it a school ranked #1 or #100. Because apparently either way you only have 3 options, you will make 145k+, 40k-60k, or get screwed and not find a job. But don't worry, all you have to do is get into the top 1/3 of your class and you will be sure to get that 145k job.

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flem
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby flem » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:32 pm

mattyboy7we wrote:

Fine, then OP just go to whatever school you want, be it a school ranked #1 or #100. Because apparently either way you only have 3 options, you will make 145k+, 40k-60k, or get screwed and not find a job. But don't worry, all you have to do is get into the top 1/3 of your class and you will be sure to get that 145k job.


That's surprisingly accurate, actually. Except your chances of landed a big paying job decrease significantly outside of the top 30 schools.

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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby bigredforlaw » Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:39 pm

howell wrote:Another option would be to pass the patent bar and try to find a job as a patent agent in Atlanta (or another city you're interested in). You could then go PT at GSU and pay your way through. And if you got into the patent agent job and hated it, you could quit with much less skin in the game.


This is the right answer, in my opinion. If Emory had a PT option, I'd say do that + patent agent, but they don't. Since you'll probably want to go into prosecution anyway, you should see if it's something you like, and more importantly, if your immunology background is really helpful. I know several patent agents who decided to go to law school 1-3 years after working as an agent at a biglaw firm and they have come out with really valuable experience and great contacts. So doing the patent agent thing full time for a little and then deciding if you want to go to law school is also a good idea.

Paul Campos
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:51 am

I think it's worth noting in this context that Emory publishes no salary information of any kind regarding its graduates, even though it's required to report salary information to the ABA and NALP. (In other words the school has the salary at nine months after graduation numbers, but chooses not to disclose them to prospective students).

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Emory Law - To go or not to go...

Postby shifty_eyed » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:39 am

It's also worth noting that Emory Law's estimated COA for 2012-2013 is 71k, so I'm not sure how the OP is getting 40k/yr out of that with a 20k/yr scholarship - not to mention that he didn't factor in interest or COA increases. I think he's looking more like 200k in the hole, including his undergrad debt but I'm on my phone and don't have the Georgetown calculator handy.




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