DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

DU or CU

Poll ended at Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:23 pm

DU
4
36%
CU
7
64%
 
Total votes: 11

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Stefyhead
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DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:23 pm

I love Colorado and actually would prefer to be in the Denver area over Boulder, but am not sure if I will be limiting myself by choosing DU.

Thoughts everyone?

checkster
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby checkster » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:30 pm

In-state for CU?

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Stefyhead
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:33 pm

checkster wrote:In-state for CU?


Nope, out of state for the first year, then in-state. Total tuition difference is looking like this:

CU ~ $100,500 out of pocket tution costs
DU ~ $54,000 out of pocket tution costs

Artistry
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Artistry » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:07 pm

Those two "cities" are so close to one another that I'm not sure if location matters either way. There are municipal buses that can take people from Denver to Boulder and vise-versa.

I'd be tempted to take the $$$ in your case, especially if you're hoping to practice in Colorado (as it seems like you hope to). Of course, there may be other intangibles at play here. You might even try using the Denver $$$ to try to get more $$$ from Colorado.

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fundamentallybroken
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby fundamentallybroken » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:18 pm

If you like Denver over Boulder, and DU is cheaper, why are you even asking this question? DU.

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Stefyhead
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:21 pm

fundamentallybroken wrote:If you like Denver over Boulder, and DU is cheaper, why are you even asking this question? DU.


I'm curious to see opinions on whether choosing DU over CU would have a major impact on future opportunities. I'd be happy in Boulder too, I just like Denver better.

rad lulz
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:23 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:29 pm

fundamentallybroken wrote:If you like Denver over Boulder, and DU is cheaper, why are you even asking this question? DU.


Cuz its not vacation school its professional school; these two schools are not peers.

I don't know how much more CU is worth than DU, though. I had a 56k difference between the two and chose CU. No idea if I made the right call financially, but I really like it at CU Law so I'm happy.

Good luck!

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Stefyhead
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:33 pm

rad lulz wrote:So you're not from Colorado?


Nope

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Stefyhead
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:34 pm

Lord Randolph McDuff wrote:
fundamentallybroken wrote:If you like Denver over Boulder, and DU is cheaper, why are you even asking this question? DU.


Cuz its not vacation school its professional school; these two schools are not peers.

I don't know how much more CU is worth than DU, though. I had a 56k difference between the two and chose CU. No idea if I made the right call financially, but I really like it at CU Law so I'm happy.

Good luck!


Wow, that's the same difference I'm looking at. Good to know.

mrwarre85
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby mrwarre85 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:37 pm

CU. Pretty much guarantees you will be an attorney unless you choose not to be or are a wierdo. The bottom half at DU will never end up practicing law. Consider what 50k means over the course of a 35 year career.

rad lulz
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:56 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

mrwarre85
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby mrwarre85 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:22 pm

rad lulz wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:CU. Pretty much guarantees you will be an attorney unless you choose not to be or are a wierdo.

From CU, 9 months after grad, 15% of c/o 2010 is known to be unemployed. Is 15% of the class is too weird, even for other lawyers? Only 68% have jobs that even REQUIRE a law degree. And these aren't necessarily even good jobs, these are just the people who are employed. In 2010, as per the NLJ250 less than 10% got a biglaw job (as per the bimodal salary distribution curve basically the only jobs that pay enough to pay down large debt in a timely manner). DU is worse. And to top it all off, you want to take out $100,000 of debt, to go to school in a region that also values being from the area pretty highly, when you're not from the area?

I wouldn't go to CU at that price, period. If you're gonna go at all, go to DU. At least if you end up employed in a job you just could have gotten with your college degree, $50k or whatever isn't much to deal with.


TLS doesn't understand culture very well. If a class has 150 students, and 30 of those students were rich fucks who only attended law school because daddy threatened to push back the date they get access to their trust fund, this would be be reflected in employment stats. Boulder, CO or "the peoples republic of Boulder" is truly a unique place. 30% of the town has a graduate level degree, homes that are falling down and look like ass are worth 1.5 mil, and "trustafarians" swamp the campus.

This is not Georgetown. People come to this law school who actually do not plan on practicing law. Even at DU there must be > 5% of the class or so that one must not consider to be competition. Also your 68% is for full time JD required. So when mommy has a baby and only wants to work 20 hours a week at the local firm in Longmont, mommy checks the part-time box. This is a "here to live, not here to get rich" kinda place.

Finally your last point about Colorado being insular is sorta right and sorta wrong. I'm sure there are locals here that are mad at all the transplants and give a boost to the local kids, but this is still a very newcomer friendly place in general. I came here out of state and got 4 or 5 offers with median grades. They offered because "you are a hard worker and go to a good school." With the exception of FL because its in the south, only states where people don't move in and out of are insular. Colorado is a western state that is full of newcomers. In fact, CU is the only non T14 public school where most of the students are out of state.

Either go to CU or don't go to law school this cycle. If I were you I would move out here, then retake and get a 166 or up and then come to CU next cycle with in-state and some scholarship money. You will get a job out of CU if you want one, but the salaries are low out here and the debt will suck.

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Stefyhead
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:31 pm

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm trying to negotiate a better scholarship with DU. We'll see what happens. I like the area considerably more than Boulder and I'm confident in my ability to find a job after graduation. I've decided no debt and quality of life are more important to me than brand name of the school. I wish you all the best!

mrwarre85
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby mrwarre85 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:16 pm

Stefyhead wrote: I'm confident in my ability to find a job after graduation.


Only 56% of the class of 2010 had full-time work as an attorney nine months out. Surely there is some self selection here, as DU is a nice place to go to school, I agree, but enough to make this significantly better than a coin flip? Lets hope you are more confident and able than at least 35%-40% of your class.

See if you can get them to award you more money and to remove the stips. Surely Denver is a nice city to go to law school in. Hard to blame you in that regard.

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Stefyhead
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby Stefyhead » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:03 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
Stefyhead wrote: I'm confident in my ability to find a job after graduation.


Only 56% of the class of 2010 had full-time work as an attorney nine months out. Surely there is some self selection here, as DU is a nice place to go to school, I agree, but enough to make this significantly better than a coin flip? Lets hope you are more confident and able than at least 35%-40% of your class.

See if you can get them to award you more money and to remove the stips. Surely Denver is a nice city to go to law school in. Hard to blame you in that regard.


Worst case scenario I'll move back to Seattle and work for the firm I'm currently at. Hopefully I'll find a job locally though.

JamesChapman23
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby JamesChapman23 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:41 pm

mrwarre85 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:CU. Pretty much guarantees you will be an attorney unless you choose not to be or are a wierdo.

From CU, 9 months after grad, 15% of c/o 2010 is known to be unemployed. Is 15% of the class is too weird, even for other lawyers? Only 68% have jobs that even REQUIRE a law degree. And these aren't necessarily even good jobs, these are just the people who are employed. In 2010, as per the NLJ250 less than 10% got a biglaw job (as per the bimodal salary distribution curve basically the only jobs that pay enough to pay down large debt in a timely manner). DU is worse. And to top it all off, you want to take out $100,000 of debt, to go to school in a region that also values being from the area pretty highly, when you're not from the area?

I wouldn't go to CU at that price, period. If you're gonna go at all, go to DU. At least if you end up employed in a job you just could have gotten with your college degree, $50k or whatever isn't much to deal with.


TLS doesn't understand culture very well. If a class has 150 students, and 30 of those students were rich fucks who only attended law school because daddy threatened to push back the date they get access to their trust fund, this would be be reflected in employment stats. Boulder, CO or "the peoples republic of Boulder" is truly a unique place. 30% of the town has a graduate level degree, homes that are falling down and look like ass are worth 1.5 mil, and "trustafarians" swamp the campus.

This is not Georgetown. People come to this law school who actually do not plan on practicing law. Even at DU there must be > 5% of the class or so that one must not consider to be competition. Also your 68% is for full time JD required. So when mommy has a baby and only wants to work 20 hours a week at the local firm in Longmont, mommy checks the part-time box. This is a "here to live, not here to get rich" kinda place.

Finally your last point about Colorado being insular is sorta right and sorta wrong. I'm sure there are locals here that are mad at all the transplants and give a boost to the local kids, but this is still a very newcomer friendly place in general. I came here out of state and got 4 or 5 offers with median grades. They offered because "you are a hard worker and go to a good school." With the exception of FL because its in the south, only states where people don't move in and out of are insular. Colorado is a western state that is full of newcomers. In fact, CU is the only non T14 public school where most of the students are out of state.

Either go to CU or don't go to law school this cycle. If I were you I would move out here, then retake and get a 166 or up and then come to CU next cycle with in-state and some scholarship money. You will get a job out of CU if you want one, but the salaries are low out here and the debt will suck.


Boy this is an ultra-conspiratorial apologetics piece. Really, your excuse for what Paul Campos (Professor at CU) calls pathetic employment numbers is that they just didnt want jobs in the first place? Campos also says CU is hiring grads to temp positions to inflate their numbers- so if anything the correlation runs in the other direction.

mrwarre85
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Re: DU (21K scholly) v. CU (sticker)

Postby mrwarre85 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:20 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
mrwarre85 wrote:CU. Pretty much guarantees you will be an attorney unless you choose not to be or are a wierdo.

From CU, 9 months after grad, 15% of c/o 2010 is known to be unemployed. Is 15% of the class is too weird, even for other lawyers? Only 68% have jobs that even REQUIRE a law degree. And these aren't necessarily even good jobs, these are just the people who are employed. In 2010, as per the NLJ250 less than 10% got a biglaw job (as per the bimodal salary distribution curve basically the only jobs that pay enough to pay down large debt in a timely manner). DU is worse. And to top it all off, you want to take out $100,000 of debt, to go to school in a region that also values being from the area pretty highly, when you're not from the area?

I wouldn't go to CU at that price, period. If you're gonna go at all, go to DU. At least if you end up employed in a job you just could have gotten with your college degree, $50k or whatever isn't much to deal with.


TLS doesn't understand culture very well. If a class has 150 students, and 30 of those students were rich fucks who only attended law school because daddy threatened to push back the date they get access to their trust fund, this would be be reflected in employment stats. Boulder, CO or "the peoples republic of Boulder" is truly a unique place. 30% of the town has a graduate level degree, homes that are falling down and look like ass are worth 1.5 mil, and "trustafarians" swamp the campus.

This is not Georgetown. People come to this law school who actually do not plan on practicing law. Even at DU there must be > 5% of the class or so that one must not consider to be competition. Also your 68% is for full time JD required. So when mommy has a baby and only wants to work 20 hours a week at the local firm in Longmont, mommy checks the part-time box. This is a "here to live, not here to get rich" kinda place.

Finally your last point about Colorado being insular is sorta right and sorta wrong. I'm sure there are locals here that are mad at all the transplants and give a boost to the local kids, but this is still a very newcomer friendly place in general. I came here out of state and got 4 or 5 offers with median grades. They offered because "you are a hard worker and go to a good school." With the exception of FL because its in the south, only states where people don't move in and out of are insular. Colorado is a western state that is full of newcomers. In fact, CU is the only non T14 public school where most of the students are out of state.

Either go to CU or don't go to law school this cycle. If I were you I would move out here, then retake and get a 166 or up and then come to CU next cycle with in-state and some scholarship money. You will get a job out of CU if you want one, but the salaries are low out here and the debt will suck.


Boy this is an ultra-conspiratorial apologetics piece. Really, your excuse for what Paul Campos (Professor at CU) calls pathetic employment numbers is that they just didnt want jobs in the first place? Campos also says CU is hiring grads to temp positions to inflate their numbers- so if anything the correlation runs in the other direction.


Yeah every law school does that. At least CU reports it on their employment website (see Michigan, who until Campos bullied them hid the fact that 70 grads were employed by the law school).

To enroll in the fellowship, you have to want to work PI or government. You get paid a decent amount to get your foot in the door until the local DA office or PD office has an opening. It is a big advantage: as you probably know, hiring is all about who you who you have a relationship with, not whose resume is in your inbox. Career service here claims that nearly all participants in the inaugural year received full time offers.

This is relevant to the claims about CU: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=182792




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