DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

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treefingers7
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DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby treefingers7 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:41 am

Posted yesterday, but have been researching all night. Despite the warnings, Law School Transparency has assuaged some of my financial fears about not getting a job after.

--LinkRemoved--

I have $60K scholarship assuming I maintain 3.2.

Everyone warned I would be in a financial nightmare since DePaul is T2 - but the prospects for a good job in Chicago (according to the class of 2009 on Law School Transparency) seem pretty promising.

Any advice?

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franklyscarlet
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby franklyscarlet » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:45 am

treefingers7 wrote:
assuming I maintain 3.2.

Any advice?


Well, that's the first thing. Don't assume.

wiscohopeful
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby wiscohopeful » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:55 am

Just in case you haven't looked into it, a 3.2 is historically the top 40%. Also, I don't think it's true but there was some talk that DePaul was putting a lot of the scholly people in the same sections (so as to necessitate some losing them...again this is unsubstantiated and I know for a fact that there were scholly people in other sections).

As for your employment worries, what do you want to do? Biglaw = nonexistent unless you know someone who can hook you up with an interview (i.e. family member or neighbors). Otherwise, LR + bomb grades haven't cut it as of late. PD or State's Atty....yeah, you might have a good shot. Also, small/mid size firms are definitely possible with good grades.

My experience in Chicago for a "good job" is that you need to be coming from UChi, NU, or Loyola for one of them. DePaul seems to get the shaft for some reason with law firms unless they are just dominated by a DePaul hiring partner/rainmaker. What is your definition of a "good job"?

srfngdd6
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby srfngdd6 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:00 am

treefingers7 wrote:Posted yesterday, but have been researching all night. Despite the warnings, Law School Transparency has assuaged some of my financial fears about not getting a job after.

--LinkRemoved--

I have $60K scholarship assuming I maintain 3.2.

Everyone warned I would be in a financial nightmare since DePaul is T2 - but the prospects for a good job in Chicago (according to the class of 2009 on Law School Transparency) seem pretty promising.

Any advice?


where to start...

even with your scholarship your COA is still likely north of 140k...plus interest

i dont see how LST alleviated any fears the majority do not report slary also thats the class of 2009 who did OCI in 2007 before the recession

maintainign a 3.2 or top 40% is not that easy everyone assumes this will be them but 60% of them are wrong

treefingers7
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby treefingers7 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:05 am

wiscohopeful wrote:Just in case you haven't looked into it, a 3.2 is historically the top 40%. Also, I don't think it's true but there was some talk that DePaul was putting a lot of the scholly people in the same sections (so as to necessitate some losing them...again this is unsubstantiated and I know for a fact that there were scholly people in other sections).

As for your employment worries, what do you want to do? Biglaw = nonexistent unless you know someone who can hook you up with an interview (i.e. family member or neighbors). Otherwise, LR + bomb grades haven't cut it as of late. PD or State's Atty....yeah, you might have a good shot. Also, small/mid size firms are definitely possible with good grades.

My experience in Chicago for a "good job" is that you need to be coming from UChi, NU, or Loyola for one of them. DePaul seems to get the shaft for some reason with law firms unless they are just dominated by a DePaul hiring partner/rainmaker. What is your definition of a "good job"?


My definition of a "good job" is starting at $70K or up. Eventually increasing obviously. I realize that "Big Law" may be a stretch, but is it silly of me to assume I could take out student loans and still get a good job from DePaul. I am not from Chicago so I don't know its local reputation.

allamerican73
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby allamerican73 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:30 am

wiscohopeful wrote:Just in case you haven't looked into it, a 3.2 is historically the top 40%. Also, I don't think it's true but there was some talk that DePaul was putting a lot of the scholly people in the same sections (so as to necessitate some losing them...again this is unsubstantiated and I know for a fact that there were scholly people in other sections).

As for your employment worries, what do you want to do? Biglaw = nonexistent unless you know someone who can hook you up with an interview (i.e. family member or neighbors). Otherwise, LR + bomb grades haven't cut it as of late. PD or State's Atty....yeah, you might have a good shot. Also, small/mid size firms are definitely possible with good grades.

My experience in Chicago for a "good job" is that you need to be coming from UChi, NU, or Loyola for one of them. DePaul seems to get the shaft for some reason with law firms unless they are just dominated by a DePaul hiring partner/rainmaker. What is your definition of a "good job"?



lol. horrific Loyola trolling...

checkster
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby checkster » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:36 am

DePaul 3.2 stip usually is closer to top 30%, and they are notorious for section stacking. Are you willing to pay 22k in tuition for your first year, then potentially 42k for each additional year if you aren't in the top ~30%? I visited DePaul, got a similar scolly, and looked at it a lot. But that stip is horrendous, and not nearly worth it considering its for the 5th best law school in Chicago.

My 2 cents.

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kennethellenparcell
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby kennethellenparcell » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:01 am

I believe the Chicago legal market views the Chicago/Illinois schools in the following order:

(1) UChicago/Northwestern
(2) UIllinois
(3) Loyola/DePaul/Chicago Kent
(4) John Marshall (general advice - please don't go here)

Some Chicago firms have relationships with schools like DePaul/Kent - so they will look favorably upon grads that the school recommends to them. However, you do need to keep in mind that you will be competing for those big law jobs (if this is what you want) with kids from t14 schools, especially Northwestern, UChicago, and Michigan. You will also be competing with kids from Loyola, UIllinois, Notre Dame, and Kent.

Basically, tons of schools feed into the Chicago market. I would see if you could get the scholarship stip removed. This actually happened to me with Loyola. I applied a few years ago and ignored them after they sent me scholly information (decided not to go to law school that year) and didn't know that withdrawing was a thing (stupid and selfish I know). Magically, they removed my scholarship stip. My LSAT was in the upper 160s at the time. I am not a URM. I am an M, but not considered a URM for the purposes of higher education. :D

As far as general job prospects from DePaul based on what you're looking for, I don't know that much about it. Can you get one of the current students to talk to you honestly about the job prospects? I have a couple friends at DePaul but we haven't really talked about job situations.

ETA: Also competing with WUSTL kids.
Last edited by kennethellenparcell on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bns_77
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby bns_77 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:12 am

All I've heard about DePaul is that the alum network in Chicago is pretty proactive and a lot of "machine-folk" have ties to the school. How that's actually translated into gainful employment is debatable.

Then again, that whole alum network thing could be complete lore...

But posters above are right, you're on the same playing field as folks from Kent and Loyola, but at a disadvantage against UChi, NW, UIUC, UM, etc... All that becomes less relevant if you're a stellar student, however.
Last edited by bns_77 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thexfactor
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby thexfactor » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:36 am

treefingers7 wrote:Posted yesterday, but have been researching all night. Despite the warnings, Law School Transparency has assuaged some of my financial fears about not getting a job after.

--LinkRemoved--

I have $60K scholarship assuming I maintain 3.2.

Everyone warned I would be in a financial nightmare since DePaul is T2 - but the prospects for a good job in Chicago (according to the class of 2009 on Law School Transparency) seem pretty promising.

Any advice?


Don't go and retake.
If you really want to go ask if they could bump up the requirement to 3.4 and give you more money. Then drop out if you don't meet the requirement. Only people in the top 10% of the class realistically have a chance at OCI.

treefingers7
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby treefingers7 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:33 pm

bns_77 wrote:All I've heard about DePaul is that the alum network in Chicago is pretty proactive and a lot of "machine-folk" have ties to the school. How that's actually translated into gainful employment is debatable.

Then again, that whole alum network thing could be complete lore...

But poster are right, you're on the same playing field as folks from Kent and Loyola, but at a disadvantage against UChi, NW, UIUC, UM, etc... All that becomes less relevant if you're a stellar student, however.


What do you mean by "machine folk?"

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Samara
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby Samara » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:34 pm

treefingers7 wrote:
bns_77 wrote:All I've heard about DePaul is that the alum network in Chicago is pretty proactive and a lot of "machine-folk" have ties to the school. How that's actually translated into gainful employment is debatable.

Then again, that whole alum network thing could be complete lore...

But poster are right, you're on the same playing field as folks from Kent and Loyola, but at a disadvantage against UChi, NW, UIUC, UM, etc... All that becomes less relevant if you're a stellar student, however.


What do you mean by "machine folk?"

If you don't know what the Chicago machine is, you won't be able to benefit from it.

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romothesavior
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:19 pm

treefingers7 wrote:Posted yesterday, but have been researching all night. Despite the warnings, Law School Transparency has assuaged some of my financial fears about not getting a job after.

--LinkRemoved--

I have $60K scholarship assuming I maintain 3.2.

Everyone warned I would be in a financial nightmare since DePaul is T2 - but the prospects for a good job in Chicago (according to the class of 2009 on Law School Transparency) seem pretty promising.

Any advice?

1. Don't assume you'll maintain a 3.2.

2. c/o 2009 data is primarily pre-recession data, because the people who graduated in 2009 did OCI in 2007 and summered in 2008. As a result, the data is a lot better for c/o 2009 than it is now. Also, LST is questionable at times. Check out the recent NLJ 250 data... DePaul is nowhere to be found. Your odds of biglaw in Chicago are under 10%, maybe less than 5%. So no, the prospects for a good job (one which will allow you to pay off your debt) are not promising.

3. There is a reason they are being sued for fraud. The school is awful. Don't go.

4. You are looking at a 60k scholarship with a stipulation at a school that costs about 200k. 140k for a degree that (if you are lucky) will get you a mid-five figures job. That's if you can find a job at all. Chicago is arguably the most brutal major market in the country right now. Do not go.

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bk1
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:21 pm

How has LST assuaged your fears when LST shows that less than 50% of DePaul grads get full time, JD required jobs?

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romothesavior
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:23 pm

bk1 wrote:How has LST assuaged your fears when LST shows that less than 50% of DePaul grads get full time, JD required jobs?

In 2009 too. Hell, knowing how bad Chicago is right now, I'd be surprised if a third of DePaul grads got JD required full time jobs.

PolySuyGuy
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby PolySuyGuy » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:59 pm

treefingers7 wrote: I have $60K scholarship assuming I maintain 3.2.


CALL them up and demand you maintain top 50% to keep your scholarship. They do that I know personally. Later on, if they put you in a "special" section (I can't remember if they call it the honors section), demand "special" section money.

Keep the burden on them to show that they want you.

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deebs
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby deebs » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:55 pm

romothesavior wrote:
bk1 wrote:How has LST assuaged your fears when LST shows that less than 50% of DePaul grads get full time, JD required jobs?

In 2009 too. Hell, knowing how bad Chicago is right now, I'd be surprised if a third of DePaul grads got JD required full time jobs.

We are at a balling 59% down in missurah!

station4
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby station4 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:33 am

OP, maybe you could tell us where you are from, what your stats are, where you have ties to, and where you would like to eventually work?

Based on your other post, are your only two options are FSU and DePaul? If so, it seems like maybe you did not apply to enough schools. How many times have you taken the LSAT? If the answer is once or twice, maybe you should consider retaking it.

Contrary to how it might seem, people here do want to help you. I can count myself among people who have been swayed by TLS from making really bad decisions regarding law school.

wiscohopeful
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby wiscohopeful » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:46 pm

allamerican73 wrote:
wiscohopeful wrote:Just in case you haven't looked into it, a 3.2 is historically the top 40%. Also, I don't think it's true but there was some talk that DePaul was putting a lot of the scholly people in the same sections (so as to necessitate some losing them...again this is unsubstantiated and I know for a fact that there were scholly people in other sections).

As for your employment worries, what do you want to do? Biglaw = nonexistent unless you know someone who can hook you up with an interview (i.e. family member or neighbors). Otherwise, LR + bomb grades haven't cut it as of late. PD or State's Atty....yeah, you might have a good shot. Also, small/mid size firms are definitely possible with good grades.

My experience in Chicago for a "good job" is that you need to be coming from UChi, NU, or Loyola for one of them. DePaul seems to get the shaft for some reason with law firms unless they are just dominated by a DePaul hiring partner/rainmaker. What is your definition of a "good job"?



lol. horrific Loyola trolling...


I didn't mean to say they are on par with UChi/NU...just that they do better than those not listed (Kent/DePaul/JM) and if you do well you actually have a shot (i.e. on LR and good grades). I don't go there, just relating my experience going to a school in Chicago and what I have heard/seen
Last edited by wiscohopeful on Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wiscohopeful
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby wiscohopeful » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:49 pm

checkster wrote:DePaul 3.2 stip usually is closer to top 30%, and they are notorious for section stacking. Are you willing to pay 22k in tuition for your first year, then potentially 42k for each additional year if you aren't in the top ~30%? I visited DePaul, got a similar scolly, and looked at it a lot. But that stip is horrendous, and not nearly worth it considering its for the 5th best law school in Chicago.

My 2 cents.


Where'd you get the closer to top 30%? I looked at the historical class ranks on the school website and for the first year (or first semester...whatever those listed are for) it's more like 40%. In subsequent years it gets closer to 50% but at that point you'd likely have already lost the scholly

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bns_77
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby bns_77 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:58 pm

wiscohopeful wrote:I didn't mean to say they are on par with UChi/NU...just that they do better than those not listed (Kent/DePaul/JM) and if you do well you actually have a shot (i.e. on LR and good grades). I don't go there, just relating my experience going to a school in Chicago and what I have heard/seen


Care to show your work on that? I can't say for sure (and I have no numbers to back it up), but from everything I've observed any difference in Kent/DePaul/Loyala hiring as far as biglaw goes is negligible.

Marshall, forget about it.

wiscohopeful
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby wiscohopeful » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:03 pm

bns_77 wrote:
wiscohopeful wrote:I didn't mean to say they are on par with UChi/NU...just that they do better than those not listed (Kent/DePaul/JM) and if you do well you actually have a shot (i.e. on LR and good grades). I don't go there, just relating my experience going to a school in Chicago and what I have heard/seen


Care to show your work on that? I can't say for sure (and I have no numbers to back it up), but from everything I've observed any difference in Kent/DePaul/Loyala hiring as far as biglaw goes is negligible.

Marshall, forget about it.


I, like you, have no numbers. I was more going off of my friends at Loyola who know of numerous people who got biglaw SAs and the fact that other friends at DePaul and Kent know of close to zero in biglaw (outside of family/neighbors getting students from there interviews/jobs).

Again, was just relating my experience in Chicago with older attorney's general understanding of the respective schools' reputations, second hand accounts of the hiring from those schools, etc. I don't believe I said I had hard evidence or had mulled through each firms' bios

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bns_77
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby bns_77 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:28 pm

wiscohopeful wrote:
bns_77 wrote:
wiscohopeful wrote:I didn't mean to say they are on par with UChi/NU...just that they do better than those not listed (Kent/DePaul/JM) and if you do well you actually have a shot (i.e. on LR and good grades). I don't go there, just relating my experience going to a school in Chicago and what I have heard/seen


Care to show your work on that? I can't say for sure (and I have no numbers to back it up), but from everything I've observed any difference in Kent/DePaul/Loyala hiring as far as biglaw goes is negligible.

Marshall, forget about it.


I, like you, have no numbers. I was more going off of my friends at Loyola who know of numerous people who got biglaw SAs and the fact that other friends at DePaul and Kent know of close to zero in biglaw (outside of family/neighbors getting students from there interviews/jobs).

Again, was just relating my experience in Chicago with older attorney's general understanding of the respective schools' reputations, second hand accounts of the hiring from those schools, etc. I don't believe I said I had hard evidence or had mulled through each firms' bios


Well, here we stand, in mutual admiration... armed with only our wits and antecdotal evidence

wiscohopeful
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby wiscohopeful » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:51 pm

Well I don't know about you but I trust our anecdotal evidence more than what the schools are self-reporting

MrAnon
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Re: DePaul - Anyone offer advice for/against?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:56 pm

you have to finish in the top 10 people or so in the class to get a job paying that much. and that was in a good economy. Did you finish in the top 10 in your class in undergrad? law school will be more competitive.




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