ASU New USNWR Ranking/Affect on School Forum

[PolySuyGuy]

Your post history is public, so I did what I could.

Yes, you make a compelling argument.




Wait, are you referring to my posts or yours?

[Golden Boy]

Not sure of how impactful this is, but I do seem to remember that ASU law was transitioning to a private funding model (and a subsequent large tuition hike?) I also heard that they would be moving all facilities from main campus to downtown with new buildings.

As far as the rankings being a one off, hasn't ASU been trending up for 4-5 years straight?

[gaud]

Not sure of how impactful this is, but I do seem to remember that ASU law was transitioning to a private funding model (and a subsequent large tuition hike?) I also heard that they would be moving all facilities from main campus to downtown with new buildings.

As far as the rankings being a one off, hasn't ASU been trending up for 4-5 years straight?

Yes for all of that.

They are trying to get away from public funding, they even mentioned this at the admitted students day, but they don't seem to be too sure on when. Sorta the same with moving to the downtown campus. We were told that they have roughly 85% of the money they need, but that the changes wouldn't be happening (it being finished) for at least 3 years.

They have also been jumping in the rankings for quite some time now.

[rad lulz]

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[Nova]

As far as the rankings being a one off, hasn't ASU been trending up for 4-5 years straight?

It doesn't fucking matter whether it is or it isn't.

Credited. Regional schools are regional.

On the bright side, ASU is surely T14 when it comes to sexy undergrads.

[Golden Boy]

As far as the rankings being a one off, hasn't ASU been trending up for 4-5 years straight?

It doesn't fucking matter whether it is or it isn't.

Perhaps. But OP did ask that in the original query.

[rad lulz]

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[PolySuyGuy]

On the bright side, ASU is surely T14 when it comes to sexy undergrads.

Sexy undergrads maybe. But definitely T14 in excessive heat, excessive dust and AC constantly blowing on you.

[tlsposter]

The NLJ250 rankings still have ASU as a non-player when it comes to getting a job, so unless we see a corresponding rise in hiring, those rankings are not going to be affected.

What matters is getting a job out of law school. A rise in US News isn't exactly going to turn ASU into a biglaw hotbed.

[whiteacre]

As a 3L graduating from ASU in a week, I have to say that reading this thread is highly entertaining. The metrics used by US News are weighted, and our rise in the ranks has much more to do with the increasingly competitive LSAT/GPA splits than it does job numbers. The fact of the matter is that ASU has a great program, and offers an exceptional value compared to similar schools. I qualify as having a so called "biglaw" job lined up in the fall, and many other students have similar positions. The vast majority of people I know have jobs or clerkships upon graduation. Yes, some of these are non-traditional legal jobs, but many pay as much or more than large firms in Phoenix. We are still recovering from a deep economic downturn, and I find it ridiculous that anyone would knock the school for helping the relatively few students who don't have full time employment.

[rad lulz]

As a 3L graduating from ASU in a week, I have to say that reading this thread is highly entertaining. The metrics used by US News are weighted, and our rise in the ranks has much more to do with the increasingly competitive LSAT/GPA splits than it does job numbers. The fact of the matter is that ASU has a great program, and offers an exceptional value compared to similar schools. I qualify as having a so called "biglaw" job lined up in the fall, and many other students have similar positions. The vast majority of people I know have jobs or clerkships upon graduation. Yes, some of these are non-traditional legal jobs, but many pay as much or more than large firms in Phoenix. We are still recovering from a deep economic downturn, and I find it ridiculous that anyone would knock the school for helping the relatively few students who don't have full time employment.

DROVES I TELL YOU

[PolySuyGuy]

The metrics used by US News are weighted, and our rise in the ranks has much more to do with the increasingly competitive LSAT/GPA splits than it does job numbers.

Arizona State U 3.43-3.77 160-165
Boston U 3.5-3.78 163-167
Boston College 3.5-3.77 162- 166
UC Davis 3.47-3.79 161-165

Here is at least 3 Law Schools with better numbers than ASU that are ranked equal or lower than them. There are plenty more.

I qualify as having a so called "biglaw" job lined up in the fall,.

I have NO idea what that means.

[romothesavior]

As a 3L graduating from ASU in a week, I have to say that reading this thread is highly entertaining. The metrics used by US News are weighted, and our rise in the ranks has much more to do with the increasingly competitive LSAT/GPA splits than it does job numbers. The fact of the matter is that ASU has a great program, and offers an exceptional value compared to similar schools. I qualify as having a so called "biglaw" job lined up in the fall, and many other students have similar positions. The vast majority of people I know have jobs or clerkships upon graduation. Yes, some of these are non-traditional legal jobs, but many pay as much or more than large firms in Phoenix. We are still recovering from a deep economic downturn, and I find it ridiculous that anyone would knock the school for helping the relatively few students who don't have full time employment.

DROVES I TELL YOU

13% of c/o 2010 grads (aka, not even the worst of the recession) got full time jobs in federal clerkships or firms of 50+. And a whopping 28% got jobs in firms of 50+/clerkships/government/PI. This is below almost every school in the T1.

You're right whiteacre, EMPLOYED IN DROVES!

[071816]

As a 3L graduating from ASU in a week, I have to say that reading this thread is highly entertaining. The metrics used by US News are weighted, and our rise in the ranks has much more to do with the increasingly competitive LSAT/GPA splits than it does job numbers. The fact of the matter is that ASU has a great program, and offers an exceptional value compared to similar schools. I qualify as having a so called "biglaw" job lined up in the fall, and many other students have similar positions. The vast majority of people I know have jobs or clerkships upon graduation. Yes, some of these are non-traditional legal jobs, but many pay as much or more than large firms in Phoenix. We are still recovering from a deep economic downturn, and I find it ridiculous that anyone would knock the school for helping the relatively few students who don't have full time employment.

[PolySuyGuy]

We are still recovering from a deep economic downturn, and I find it ridiculous that anyone would knock the school for helping the relatively few students who don't have full time employment.

I don't know why, but I found this extremely funny.

[Golden Boy]

The NLJ250 rankings still have ASU as a non-player when it comes to getting a job, so unless we see a corresponding rise in hiring, those rankings are not going to be affected.

What matters is getting a job out of law school. A rise in US News isn't exactly going to turn ASU into a biglaw hotbed.

Agreed with the premise, but I question the statement that "ASU is a non-player". Maybe in New York or Washington it isn't, but they are certainly a player in Phoenix; maybe even the player. As someone in this thread mentioned, ASU is a regional. Would anyone really go there in order to get into another market?

According to the NLJ 250, the Phoenix market is increasing in terms of new lawyers. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 A bigger pie means more opportunities for work. Go to any of the Phoenix Biglaw firm websites and take a look at the attorney profiles. You'll see a lot of ASU grads. Maybe there's a correlation.

[JamesChapman23]

Wasn't Phoenix absolutely destroyed by the recession? I thought its growth was completely contingent on the out-of-control housing market like Vegas was.

Anyway, people are acting like ASU is the only law school in the state. U of A is generally considered a better school and not that far away.

[rad lulz]

The NLJ250 rankings still have ASU as a non-player when it comes to getting a job, so unless we see a corresponding rise in hiring, those rankings are not going to be affected.

What matters is getting a job out of law school. A rise in US News isn't exactly going to turn ASU into a biglaw hotbed.

Agreed with the premise, but I question the statement that "ASU is a non-player". Maybe in New York or Washington it isn't, but they are certainly a player in Phoenix; maybe even the player. As someone in this thread mentioned, ASU is a regional. Would anyone really go there in order to get into another market?

According to the NLJ 250, the Phoenix market is increasing in terms of new lawyers. http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 A bigger pie means more opportunities for work. Go to any of the Phoenix Biglaw firm websites and take a look at the attorney profiles. You'll see a lot of ASU grads. Maybe there's a correlation.

So what is your point? It's still an NLJ250 non-player. Because there are only 1100 odd NLJ250 attorneys total there. Summer classes are small. Also your 4.6% growth rate represented... 41 attorneys. C'mon bro.

[boredatwork]

On the bright side, ASU is surely T14 when it comes to sexy undergrads.

Sexy undergrads maybe. But definitely T14 in excessive heat, excessive dust and AC constantly blowing on you.

--ImageRemoved--

[RVP11]

Wasn't Phoenix absolutely destroyed by the recession? I thought its growth was completely contingent on the out-of-control housing market like Vegas was.

Anyway, people are acting like ASU is the only law school in the state. U of A is generally considered a better school and not that far away.

Phoenix was hit hard by the recession. But I remember reading at least one recent economic forecast that placed it in the top 5 metros for job growth in the future. The city has had a few booms in the past (all of the 1950s, mid to late '80s, late '90s, 2003-2007) and will likely have another one in the next decade.

Regardless, ASU will never be "the" player. Less than 10% of the students are getting big firm jobs. UA still does better at getting its students good jobs, even in Phoenix.

[PolySuyGuy]

As someone in this thread mentioned, ASU is a regional. Would anyone really go there in order to get into another market?

I wish more people understood that.