Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

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iShotFirst
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby iShotFirst » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:21 am

New Yorker going to Alabama law school... sounds like a comedy movie in the vein of Legally Blonde - good luck with that.

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 am

romothesavior wrote:
MTBike wrote:Make the best possible choice you can, consider all options, and if UMN is your best option then do not hesitate to go. Ask anyone outside of this hell hole of a forum full of ignorant 0L's, and they will give you the same advice.

You realize almost everyone posting in here about the dangers of going to these schools is a current law student, right? If you got outside of this "hell hole of a forum of ignorant 0Ls" and asked some of the unemployed 2Ls and 3Ls at these "vaunted T20s" that you speak of, they'd say the same thing we are. No one is disparaging these schools; we're just saying that OP should consider looking at other options.

Also, you are very good at making a straw man out of other people's arguments. Where'd you learn to do that? It's an impressive skill that will take you far in the law. :roll:


These "unemployed 2 and 3L's" you speak of, are most likely the ones that didnt do well in LS which fits my argument perfectly.

And no, radlulz said quite clearly not to go to UMN. Not that he should consider other options then go of UMN is the correct fit, which is what I said.

Please stop white knighting radlulz in every thread he posts in... I've noticed that and I've only been posting on here for a month or so
Last edited by MTBike on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:27 am

rad lulz wrote:MTBike, literally the only coherent point I have read you make about UMN is that it's a T20, so that means it's good and worth attending. That's the most asinine thing I read yesterday, and again this morning. The rankings worthless for what they purport to measure (school quality and ability to get a job). See the Midwest T25 OCI thread for more details.
MTBike wrote:"T14, regional school with a full scholarship plus stipend, or dont go" notion, because it is incorrect.

No one said that. You pulled that out of your ass.
Make the best possible choice you can, consider all options, and if UMN is your best option then do not hesitate to go. Ask anyone outside of this hell hole of a forum full of ignorant 0L's, and they will give you the same advice.

Cool, I'm not an 0L breh, and neither are a bunch of these other poasters.


I never said "because it is a top 20 it is good and worth attending" (speaking of pulling things out of your ass). It is a good school, and it happens to be in the top 20. Two separate points.
Also, I am aware some people in this thread arent 0L's but it doesnt discredit my point. Your in law school, you should know the basics of an argument by now :)
Last edited by MTBike on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:28 am

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:29 am

rad lulz wrote:
MTBike wrote:These "unemployed 2 and 3L's are the ones that didnt do well in LS" which fits my argument perfectly.

Not necessarily. You pulled that out of your ass. Grades have a loose correlation to an ability to get a big law job, but they matter much less after that (and clerkships). Small firm lawyers care much more about fit and work product, local govt. emphasizes true believers.


My god how much do you think I have "up my ass"?

And I said they are MOST LIKELY the ones that didn't do well in LS. Which im guessing, a majority of the time, is correct.

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sunynp
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby sunynp » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:31 am

Op- you might want to read prof campos blog post today. I'll copy and paste it later if no one gets to it first. About halfway down he analysis the Minnesota stats.

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:32 am

sunynp wrote:Op- you might want to read prof campos blog post today. I'll copy and paste it later if no one gets to it first. About halfway down he analysis the Minnesota stats.


LOL there you go... drink the coolaid of Campos. :roll:

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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:33 am

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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:33 am

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:35 am

rad lulz wrote:
MTBike wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
MTBike wrote:These "unemployed 2 and 3L's are the ones that didnt do well in LS" which fits my argument perfectly.

Not necessarily. You pulled that out of your ass. Grades have a loose correlation to an ability to get a big law job, but they matter much less after that (and clerkships). Small firm lawyers care much more about fit and work product, local govt. emphasizes true believers.


My god how much do you think I have "up my ass"?

And I said they are MOST LIKELY the ones that didn't do well in LS. Which im guessing, a majority of the time, is correct.

This isn't even necessarily true either.


*facepalm* did I say it was necessarily true?

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:36 am

Dumb advice... turn down a scholarship to a top 20 law school because you lack "ties"?

No... just, no.


Still valid.

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:39 am

rad lulz wrote:Since you have no ties no either region, neither.


Your advocating not going to UMN because he has no ties... Its wrong. ITS STILL WRONG. If it is his best choice... then he should go there, plain and simple.

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sunynp
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby sunynp » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:41 am

MTBike wrote:
sunynp wrote:Op- you might want to read prof campos blog post today. I'll copy and paste it later if no one gets to it first. About halfway down he analysis the Minnesota stats.


LOL there you go... drink the coolaid of Campos. :roll:

Hey if you have numbers that dispute what campos' says, go ahead and post them. I'm not arguing with anyone. I saw the blog post and thought op might like to know about the stats as I just posted in his thread.

I'm not sure what your problem is. If you have data please add it to the thread.

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MTBike
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MTBike » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:46 am

sunynp wrote:
MTBike wrote:
sunynp wrote:Op- you might want to read prof campos blog post today. I'll copy and paste it later if no one gets to it first. About halfway down he analysis the Minnesota stats.


LOL there you go... drink the coolaid of Campos. :roll:

Hey if you have nubers that dispute what he says, go ahead and post them. I'm not arguing with anyone. I saw the blog post and thought op might like to know about the stats as I just posted in his thread.

I'm not sure what your problem is. If you have data please add it to the thread.


I know that, and im sorry. I wasn't attacking you, merely the link to anything Campos has posted.

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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:52 am

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NoJob
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby NoJob » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:02 pm

OP, I know MN law grads working in non-law jobs for a whopping 14.00 an hour. Don't do it.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:08 pm

MTBike wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Since you have no ties no either region, neither.


Your advocating not going to UMN because he has no ties... Its wrong. ITS STILL WRONG. If it is his best choice... then he should go there, plain and simple.


I agree that the answer probably isn't "neither", but the value of UMN and UA degrees are lessened by the fact that not only does the OP not have ties to either Minnesota or Alabama, but also the OP lacks ties to either of those regions as a whole (southeast and midwest).

If the OP wants to stay in either of those states after graduation, he/she is at a disadvantage in comparison to peers that have ties to the state. Even if the OP wanted to work out of state, he/she would be at a disadvantage as neither school is known for out of state placement/reputation.

Remember, I'm not claiming neither. I'm claiming that there are better options, even if they are ranked lower by US News (like Cardozo or Brooklyn).

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romothesavior
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:58 pm

MTBike wrote:These "unemployed 2 and 3L's" you speak of, are most likely the ones that didnt do well in LS which fits my argument perfectly.

My friends in the top 1/3 (some on LR) who are unemployed or working for free this summer would take issue with this claim. And I go to a vaunted T20.

Also, you have no idea how you are going to do in law school before you go, which is built into the argument rad and I are making. You should probably assume medianish grades (maybe slightly above is an okay assumption), and median at UMN (or any school in this range) with lots of debt and no ties to the state or region is not a great idea.

I wouldn't say UMN is a terrible option here, but it is very risky and OP should probably be considering other schools before UMN for all the reasons we've already mentioned.

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MidwestJosh
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MidwestJosh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:41 pm

sunynp wrote:Op- you might want to read prof campos blog post today. I'll copy and paste it later if no one gets to it first. About halfway down he analysis the Minnesota stats.


Right, because Campos is the guy you want to take advice from. I think I just died laughing. See: http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... mprof.html

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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:46 pm

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MidwestJosh
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MidwestJosh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:46 pm

The bottom line is there is a multitude of factors. I chose UMN over Gtown, UVA and Mich because they offered no scholarships, whereas Vandy upwards did. Some people are alright with debt, especially of this kind. Some people will go into public service for 10 years and have it forgiven. Some can't stand the thought and need to have everything paid.

The advice you're dispensing is tailored to those who have no idea why they're going to law school and need to keep every option open for fear of the unknown. For those who truly understand what they're getting into, the decision will probably not fit the same parameters. Everybody needs to stop acting like they have the magical formula for determination and start focusing on substantive facts that will help each individual make and informed decision.

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MidwestJosh
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby MidwestJosh » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:52 pm

rad lulz wrote:
MidwestJosh wrote:
sunynp wrote:Op- you might want to read prof campos blog post today. I'll copy and paste it later if no one gets to it first. About halfway down he analysis the Minnesota stats.


Right, because Campos is the guy you want to take advice from. I think I just died laughing. See: http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... mprof.html

As opposed to Leiter...

http://www.autoadmit.com/leiter.html



Leiter's professional reputation is not just a lot better than Paul Campos', but it is solid. Ask a few profs at your law school about both of these two - you'll love the response. And I'll take a lot more from that than I will unconfirmed accusations, for the record.

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Samara
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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby Samara » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:57 pm

FWIW, when I went to WUSTL ASW, every student I asked about ties said that if it you don't have ties to the Midwest, OCI is going to be a lot tougher and you will need much better grades. And WUSTL's reputation in the Midwest is higher than UMN's and certainly higher than 'Bama's is in the South.

No one ITT is saying that employment for OP at UMN or Bama is impossible, but that employment will be much more difficult than an already uphill battle and isn't worth the risk at the cost to the OP. OP has better choices available; if nothing else, retake.

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Re: Bama U(25k) v Minnesota (25k)

Postby rad lulz » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:57 pm

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