Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

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170hopeful
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Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 170hopeful » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:17 pm

I know this topic has been beaten to death over the years.. But given the fact that Texas tech has nearly jumped to the second tier- I'm having a bit of trouble making a decision. If I want to work in Houston- would my best bet be to attend south Texas or tech? I'm afraid that by the time I'll graduate Tech would move deep into the second tier... But who knows? I also forgot to mention that i'm considering litigation as a selling point. Which school would be the safest bet at sticker?

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:20 pm

Come on now bro, you know what people are going to tell you.

It's time for a retake.

170hopeful
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 170hopeful » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:22 pm

I had a feeling this was an inevitable response :/

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:23 pm

170hopeful wrote:I had a feeling this was an inevitable response :/

It would almost be unethical to suggest anything else. Those schools are career suicide at sticker. You do not want to live your life making $50K with that kind of debt. You just don't.

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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 170hopeful » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:29 pm

Little detail I forgot to mention; law school is "paid for." let's just assume Id like to get good placement in Houston.. Which is the safest bet?

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:34 pm

170hopeful wrote:Little detail I forgot to mention; law school is "paid for." let's just assume Id like to get good placement in Houston.. Which is the safest bet?

Neither is a good bet. Your odds of getting a job at a law firm are about 1 in 100 from either school. Seriously. Also, I know you are thinking right now that you're going to be in the top-10% of the class. You won't.

Just because you have rich parents doesn't mean they should waste $200,000 on a worthless J.D. because you don't want to retake.

Retake.

170hopeful
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 170hopeful » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:36 pm

In state tuition bro

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:38 pm

170hopeful wrote:In state tuition bro

This makes TTU slightly less worthless. But honestly, is there a good reason you can't just retake the LSAT? I know it sucks to put things off for a year, but you know what else sucks? Spending the rest of your life fighting an uphill battle in every professional situation people people take one look at your resume and assume that you're stupid. I'm not saying that's a nice thing to do, but the legal industry just works that way and it will happen to you if you get your JD from one of these schools.

texas man
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby texas man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:23 pm

SBL wrote:
170hopeful wrote:Little detail I forgot to mention; law school is "paid for." let's just assume Id like to get good placement in Houston.. Which is the safest bet?

Neither is a good bet. Your odds of getting a job at a law firm are about 1 in 100 from either school. Seriously. Also, I know you are thinking right now that you're going to be in the top-10% of the class. You won't.

Just because you have rich parents doesn't mean they should waste $200,000 on a worthless J.D. because you don't want to retake.

Retake.


170hopeful:

While retaking is often sensible for several reasons, including your ability to obtain scholarships, be wary of people recklessly throwing out numbers like the ones above.

In another thread, I posted the total COE for all Texas schools: Texas Law Schools -- Total Cost

Based on this year's numbers, three years at Texas Tech is $110,133; South Texas is $144,000.

I'm currently a 2L at Tech, and I have an offer to work at a small firm in Houston for the second half of the summer (I'm working in Austin at a PI firm for the first half). Usually between 50-60% of Tech grads end up at law firms.

If your goal is biglaw, then it'll be difficult from either school (although not impossible). Both schools are great for litigation--the advocacy programs at both regularly win national championships. The bulk of South Texas' network is in Houston (as expected); accordingly, its reach in Texas is much more limited than Tech. Tech reaches across the state, but its alumni base isn't as large in Houston as in Dallas/Fort Worth. Still, Tech's alumni network is very loyal, and for many this network plays a large roll in getting a job after graduation.

I do think there is a good chance that Texas Tech is at the beginning of a climb in the rankings, but I don't think this should really play into your decision. If these (or any other schools) are your choices, visit the schools before making a decision.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:28 pm

texas man wrote:
SBL wrote:
170hopeful wrote:Little detail I forgot to mention; law school is "paid for." let's just assume Id like to get good placement in Houston.. Which is the safest bet?

Neither is a good bet. Your odds of getting a job at a law firm are about 1 in 100 from either school. Seriously. Also, I know you are thinking right now that you're going to be in the top-10% of the class. You won't.

Just because you have rich parents doesn't mean they should waste $200,000 on a worthless J.D. because you don't want to retake.

Retake.


170hopeful:

While retaking is often sensible for several reasons, including your ability to obtain scholarships, be wary of people recklessly throwing out numbers like the ones above.

In another thread, I posted the total COE for all Texas schools: Texas Law Schools -- Total Cost

Based on this year's numbers, three years at Texas Tech is $110,133; South Texas is $144,000.


You didn't inlclude interest in your estimate dude. Assuming South Texas keeps tuition the same in 2012-2013 and then raises it 3.5% in each of the next two years someone paying sticker would end up with 171K in debt.

--LinkRemoved--

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:32 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
texas man wrote:
SBL wrote:
170hopeful wrote:Little detail I forgot to mention; law school is "paid for." let's just assume Id like to get good placement in Houston.. Which is the safest bet?

Neither is a good bet. Your odds of getting a job at a law firm are about 1 in 100 from either school. Seriously. Also, I know you are thinking right now that you're going to be in the top-10% of the class. You won't.

Just because you have rich parents doesn't mean they should waste $200,000 on a worthless J.D. because you don't want to retake.

Retake.


170hopeful:

While retaking is often sensible for several reasons, including your ability to obtain scholarships, be wary of people recklessly throwing out numbers like the ones above.

In another thread, I posted the total COE for all Texas schools: Texas Law Schools -- Total Cost

Based on this year's numbers, three years at Texas Tech is $110,133; South Texas is $144,000.


You didn't inlclude interest in your estimate dude. Assuming South Texas keeps tuition the same in 2012-2013 and then raises it 3.5% in each of the next two years someone paying sticker would end up with 171K in debt.

--LinkRemoved--

Beat me to it.

In any event, OP seems to have law school paid for, so I guess who cares, but these are both terrible law schools.

I honestly don't get why people don't retake. I wish I re-took, and I'm leaving law school with pretty good employment prospects. A few more points, and this guy could be looking at Houston or SMU, two schools which, while not amazing, are certainly worth taking a look at.

TTU and STCL are some of the worst law schools in the country. Do you really want to go to one of the worst law schools in the country, and then use that degree for your entire career, just because retaking and putting off law school for another year kinda sucks?

texas man
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby texas man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:43 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:You didn't inlclude interest in your estimate dude. Assuming South Texas keeps tuition the same in 2012-2013 and then raises it 3.5% in each of the next two years someone paying sticker would end up with 171K in debt.

--LinkRemoved--


Sure, include interest--I'm all for accuracy, not hyperbole. And, again, retaking is almost always a good idea.

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:48 pm

texas man wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:You didn't inlclude interest in your estimate dude. Assuming South Texas keeps tuition the same in 2012-2013 and then raises it 3.5% in each of the next two years someone paying sticker would end up with 171K in debt.

--LinkRemoved--


Sure, include interest--I'm all for accuracy, not hyperbole. And, again, retaking is almost always a good idea.

I'd like to see a source on that claim that 50-60% of tech grads get firm gigs. Definitely not including no-benefits contract work here either.

texas man
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby texas man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:56 pm

SBL wrote:I'd like to see a source on that claim that 50-60% of tech grads get firm gigs. Definitely not including no-benefits contract work here either.


SBL: It's clear from your statements that any response I have wouldn't have much value for you. I don't think your interest in Texas Tech or South Texas is motivated by any real interest in their employment prospects; rather, your interest seems (to me) to be one of denigration. Nevertheless, I'm OK with agreeing to disagree about whether the schools are good or bad.

Still, for those interested:

On the Tech website: Employment Stats for Class of 2010
I think more info would be helpful here, but I think it is a good starting point.

Also, in the numbers reported to NALP for 2009 (for their Jobs & JD report), here is the breakdown by firm size:

Firm Size___# Reported___% (within Firms)

Solo.................5...............4.6
2-10..............53.............49.1
11-25............16.............14.8
26-50............13.............12.0
51-100............2...............1.9
101-250..........4...............3.7
251-500..........3...............2.8
501+...............8................7.4
Unknown.........4................3.7
Total............108............100.0

Also, for the Class of 2010, 41% of the jobs were at small firms of 2-10; I don't have the breakdown per firm size, but I would imagine it is similar. I haven't seen any reports breaking down contract work from non-contract work (from any schools--although I haven't really spent time trying to find this info for other schools). Even so, I think the info above is enough for a prima facie case.

For South Texas: Employment Stats

Hopefully some find this helpful.
Last edited by texas man on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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b.gump81
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby b.gump81 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Sbl, I've seen you bashing tech a lot on this website. Do you go to a Texas school? Have you spent summer internships in a Texas market? Are you from Texas? I'm not trying to be snarky or rude. I am really genuinely curious to hear where this hate comes from.

To answer the op, I think a retake is a good move if you are dead-set on Houston. Try to get uh as it will open more doors than both tech and stcl for the Houston market. But in looking at your previous posts, I see you have already taken the LSAT twice, so I understand how unappealing a retake would be. If you would be comfortable not being in Houston for a couple years after graduation and you don't want to retake, I think tech is the better choice, based on reputation and employment prospects. I don't expect a big jump in the rankings for tech, but it jumping to second tier is very possible. Regardless, it is far from one of the "worst law schools in the country," like sbl claims.

Also, this thread may be somewhat helpful

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=116849

texas man
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby texas man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:18 pm

b.gump81 wrote:Also, this thread may be somewhat helpful

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=116849


I'm still having flashbacks from that thread . . .

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:22 pm

b.gump81 wrote:Sbl, I've seen you bashing tech a lot on this website. Do you go to a Texas school? Have you spent summer internships in a Texas market? Are you from Texas? I'm not trying to be snarky or rude. I am really genuinely curious to hear where this hate comes from.


SBL wrote:Texas Tech with in-state tuition for people who grew up in West Texas is actually an OK option as TTTs go.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=179537

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kalvano
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby kalvano » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:26 pm

texas man wrote:
SBL wrote:I'd like to see a source on that claim that 50-60% of tech grads get firm gigs. Definitely not including no-benefits contract work here either.


SBL: It's clear from your statements that any response I have wouldn't have much value for you. I don't think your interest in Texas Tech or South Texas is motivated by any real interest in their employment prospects; rather, your interest seems (to me) to be one of denigration. Nevertheless, I'm OK with agreeing to disagree about whether the schools are good or bad.

Still, for those interested:

On the Tech website: Employment Stats for Class of 2010
I think more info would be helpful here, but I think it is a good starting point.

Also, in the numbers reported to NALP for 2009 (for their Jobs & JD report), here is the breakdown by firm size:

Firm Size___# Reported___% (within Firms)

Solo.................5...............4.6
2-10..............53.............49.1
11-25............16.............14.8
26-50............13.............12.0
51-100............2...............1.9
101-250..........4...............3.7
251-500..........3...............2.8
501+...............8................7.4
Unknown.........4................3.7
Total............108............100.0

Also, for the Class of 2010, 41% of the jobs were at small firms of 2-10; I don't have the breakdown per firm size, but I would imagine it is similar. I haven't seen any reports breaking down contract work from non-contract work (from any schools--although I haven't really spent time trying to find this info for other schools). Even so, I think the info above is enough for a prima facie case.

For South Texas: Employment Stats

Hopefully some find this helpful.


How about real employment stats not issued by the school? Using the school's employment stats is like asking the guy trying to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for a certificate of authenticity.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby kalvano » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:34 pm

texas man wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:Also, this thread may be somewhat helpful

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=116849


I'm still having flashbacks from that thread . . .



I'd forgotten what an insufferable dick I was back then. Good thing law school has molded me into a kinder, gentler person.

texas man
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby texas man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:38 pm

kalvano wrote:How about real employment stats not issued by the school? Using the school's employment stats is like asking the guy trying to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for a certificate of authenticity.


What are stats not issued by the school? These were issued by the school to NALP. For private practice jobs, I don't know of any source that doesn't originate from the school (aside from the small portion of NLJ 250 firms that report on their hires). If there is another source I should look at, please let me know.

imbored25
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby imbored25 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:41 pm

Tech

texas man
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby texas man » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:45 pm

kalvano wrote:
texas man wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:Also, this thread may be somewhat helpful

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=116849


I'm still having flashbacks from that thread . . .



I'd forgotten what an insufferable dick I was back then. Good thing law school has molded me into a kinder, gentler person.


I'll admit it--I've always enjoyed reading your comments, even when you were insufferable.

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kalvano
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby kalvano » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:50 pm

texas man wrote:
kalvano wrote:
texas man wrote:
b.gump81 wrote:Also, this thread may be somewhat helpful

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=116849


I'm still having flashbacks from that thread . . .



I'd forgotten what an insufferable dick I was back then. Good thing law school has molded me into a kinder, gentler person.


I'll admit it--I've always enjoyed reading your comments, even when you were insufferable.


You shut your whore mouth and go back to your home on Whore Island.


Whore.

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20160810
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby 20160810 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:44 am

I have no axe to grind whatsoever here, just a general mission to dissuade anyone from attending any TTT school without at LEAST giving the LSAT another go. You don't want my advice, by all means, be your own man. It might pan out for you. But don't come crying to TLS when you're stuck with $1,000-a-month loan payments doing short-term contract work with no health benefits for some 6-person boner law firm in Brownsville.

Lord Randolph McDuff
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Re: Texas tech vs. south Texas college of law

Postby Lord Randolph McDuff » Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:04 am

I hope SBL would give the same advice to many T2s then, because Tech is at least as good as half of the 2nd teir.

There was a Tulsa/Tech thread earlier... did that dood go to Tulsa because it is now #99 and not #107? The 2nd/3rd tier is actually pretty meaningless IMO. You can look at regional reps and find good law schools that bounce in and out of the "third tier toilet" group. There is such a massive difference between the University of Mizzou, which was "TTT" last year or Tech and Cooley, Florida Coastal, etc. In fact I'd wager that a Tech or Mizzou student could take a visiting year at Wisco or UGA and not miss a beat. Outside of the top 14, then maybe top 25 or so, all law schools have a lot in common with each other until you get to the bottom 50 or so.




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