Where should I go?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:55 am

Okay so my top 3 choices are Oregon w/ 10k, Michigan State w/ half and Nebraska w/ 33k... I am still waiting to hear back from Arizona State and Alabama... I kinda am thinking of getting into criminal law or intellectual property. I would love to do constitutional law but lets be realistic, I am not going to Harvard etc ha. So where should I go? I am kinda at a stand still...

bdole2
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby bdole2 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:42 am

uhhhh where are you from? Regional schools from all different parts of the country?
Last edited by bdole2 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:46 am

bdole2 wrote:uhhhh where are you from? Regions schools from all different parts of the country?


Bay Area but I have friends in Michigan and Nebraska just seems to have a decent program for criminal law

bdole2
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby bdole2 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:50 am

jdamele76 wrote:
bdole2 wrote:uhhhh where are you from? Regions schools from all different parts of the country?


Bay Area but I have friends in Michigan and Nebraska just seems to have a decent program for criminal law


Specialty rankings don't matter. Did you apply to UC Hastings or UC Davis?

User avatar
Michaela
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:20 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby Michaela » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:53 am

Stips? If one or more had no stips and you really have no preference and could see yourself living/working there, go to that one.

JamesChapman23
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby JamesChapman23 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:26 am

jdamele76 wrote:
bdole2 wrote:uhhhh where are you from? Regions schools from all different parts of the country?


Bay Area but I have friends in Michigan and Nebraska just seems to have a decent program for criminal law


If you don't have real ties (grew up in MI or NE), don't go to those schools. Most of midwest employers are almost tribal in their desire to see applicants have significant ties to the region and being at the law school isn't enough. You are especially at a disadvantage because you are from one of the nicest places in the country and everyone assumes you want to return.

I would retake and look at UC Hastings/Davis/Irvine/LA.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:40 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:
jdamele76 wrote:
bdole2 wrote:uhhhh where are you from? Regions schools from all different parts of the country?


Bay Area but I have friends in Michigan and Nebraska just seems to have a decent program for criminal law


If you don't have real ties (grew up in MI or NE), don't go to those schools. Most of midwest employers are almost tribal in their desire to see applicants have significant ties to the region and being at the law school isn't enough. You are especially at a disadvantage because you are from one of the nicest places in the country and everyone assumes you want to return.

I would retake and look at UC Hastings/Davis/Irvine/LA.



I highly doubt I could do that, I got a 162 and although I totally messed up on the reading comp section (which was my best section) and could have gotten 167 based off my avg, my GPA is low (3.19). Although I have been getting straight A's since last semester, it would not improve that much. Besides I don't really want to take a year off.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:47 pm

Need to know what stipulations are attached to each law school's scholarship offer.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:52 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Need to know what stipulations are attached to each law school's scholarship offer.



2.0 Oregon
2.8 Michigan State
Top half for Nebraska

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:52 pm

From Bay Area, looking at Nebraska, Oregon, Michigan State, Alabama, and Arizona State...

:|

Okay, you should probably understand the parochial nature of legal hiring a little better.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:55 pm

Without more information, then Oregon is attractive because it keeps you in the same region of the country. Nebraska is attractive because it's probably a full tuition scholarship that offers financial freedom after completing law school. MSU is attractive because the school is honest re: scholarships & employment. Also, if you lose an MSU scholarship, you can requalify for your final year.

P.S. All of your stipulations are reasonable. Nebraska needs lawyers, but much of the need is in rural areas. Hard to pass up full tuition at Nebraska, but Oregon is much closer to home for you & will not entail culture shock.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:58 pm

romothesavior wrote:From Bay Area, looking at Nebraska, Oregon, Michigan State, Alabama, and Arizona State...

:|

Okay, you should probably understand the parochial nature of legal hiring a little better.



I understand quite clearly, I would not mind practicing in any one of these areas except for Nebraska but I can move from Nebraska to Missouri supposedly quite easily, which would be acceptable.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:59 pm

If you are willing to open up your own practice or work in an office-sharing arrangement or in a very small firm, then MSU & Nebraska offer more financial freedom to do so. opportunities from Oregon are also limited, but still in your region.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:03 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Without more information, then Oregon is attractive because it keeps you in the same region of the country. Nebraska is attractive because it's probably a full tuition scholarship that offers financial freedom after completing law school. MSU is attractive because the school is honest re: scholarships & employment. Also, if you lose an MSU scholarship, you can requalify for your final year.

P.S. All of your stipulations are reasonable. Nebraska needs lawyers, but much of the need is in rural areas. Hard to pass up full tuition at Nebraska, but Oregon is much closer to home for you & will not entail culture shock.


This was kind of my thoughts exactly. Each scholarship I can re-qualify for my third year if I lose it. But there are tons of pro's and con's on each side. I suppose I wouldn't be providing all the info if I did not say that my GF is going to transfer with me. She is a business major currently. Another reason why these schools are my top (all have good business schools).

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:06 pm

jdamele76 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:From Bay Area, looking at Nebraska, Oregon, Michigan State, Alabama, and Arizona State...

:|

Okay, you should probably understand the parochial nature of legal hiring a little better.



I understand quite clearly, I would not mind practicing in any one of these areas except for Nebraska but I can move from Nebraska to Missouri supposedly quite easily, which would be acceptable.

It's not whether you would mind practicing in any one of these areas, it's whether the employers would mind hiring you to work there. A lack of concrete ties is not a kiss of death, but it is a significant handicap, particularly if you aren't in the tip top of the class. You are digging yourself into a huge hole before you even start.

And as someone who knows the KC/STL markets very well, good luck getting into a good job in those markets with a Nebraska degree. Are you okay with working in a 30-40k job, and/or in a very small rural community? A Nebraska degree is a not a pipeline to good jobs in Missouri, so I'm not sure why you think NE --> MO is easy.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:17 pm

romothesavior wrote:
jdamele76 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:From Bay Area, looking at Nebraska, Oregon, Michigan State, Alabama, and Arizona State...

:|

Okay, you should probably understand the parochial nature of legal hiring a little better.



I understand quite clearly, I would not mind practicing in any one of these areas except for Nebraska but I can move from Nebraska to Missouri supposedly quite easily, which would be acceptable.

It's not whether you would mind practicing in any one of these areas, it's whether the employers would mind hiring you to work there. A lack of concrete ties is not a kiss of death, but it is a significant handicap, particularly if you aren't in the tip top of the class. You are digging yourself into a huge hole before you even start.

And as someone who knows the KC/STL markets very well, good luck getting into a good job in those markets with a Nebraska degree. Are you okay with working in a 30-40k job, and/or in a very small rural community? A Nebraska degree is a not a pipeline to good jobs in Missouri, so I'm not sure why you think NE --> MO is easy.


I know a few graduates who have made the transition, granted that was 15 or so years ago for them. Let's face it though, I screwed myself with my GPA so California schools which are worth a damn did not accept me so I have to made due with what I got. I may be considered a flight risk to employers sure but its pretty clear I have to stay even if only 10 years. The only school which gives me a decent outward shot at going back to Cali with a decent job is ASU or Oregon and those are both long shots by far.

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby MrAnon » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:24 pm

Don't go. Your post is indicative of lack of coherent plan. You live in one place but apply to a list of unimpressive schools all over the country. Take some time off, work, figure out what you really want to do, get a plan, reapply.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:15 pm

MrAnon wrote:Don't go. Your post is indicative of lack of coherent plan. You live in one place but apply to a list of unimpressive schools all over the country. Take some time off, work, figure out what you really want to do, get a plan, reapply.


I wouldn't call ASU, Alabama unimpressive. Additionally, I do not see whats wrong with MSU, Oregon, Nebraska or schools like them. Unless of course you call schools only in the top 50 impressive. Yeah they aren't T14 schools but they are well respected in their regions and I don't plan on attempting to get into a big law firm or anything. My point is that yeah I don't know exactly what I want to do but that's normal. I know I am leaning towards IP of Criminal law, all have good programs with pro's and con's and I need a little help deciding among my choices that I ACTUALLY have. I can live in any of these places and I will work my ass off to get the interviews to land a job, that doesn't mean there is no plan. Just because I am not set on one specific place I know I want to be in does not mean there is no plan. The plan is I know what type of places I am willing to live in and what schools I liked when researching them and loosely what type of law. If you don't like how I do things than relax and don't post. I am looking for insight not somebody to tell me I picked shit schools to apply to.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:35 pm

jdamele76 wrote:The plan is I know what type of places I am willing to live in and what schools I liked when researching them and loosely what type of law. If you don't like how I do things than relax and don't post. I am looking for insight not somebody to tell me I picked shit schools to apply to.

They aren't shit schools. They just aren't good schools for your situation. It is really quite simple.

1. The economy is terrible.
2. Law school hiring is parochial and regional.
3. You have zero ties to the markets these schools place to other than "a few friends" who live there.

These all add up to make any of these schools a questionable decision. I am concerned that you don't understand how bad legal hiring is right now, or how truly regional these schools are. But you asked "Where should I go?" and I think the overwhelming consensus here is that none of the above is the correct choice. It is ultimately your future and your money, so you do what you think is best, but don't expect those of us on this site to endorse your decision as a good one.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:42 pm

romothesavior wrote:
jdamele76 wrote:The plan is I know what type of places I am willing to live in and what schools I liked when researching them and loosely what type of law. If you don't like how I do things than relax and don't post. I am looking for insight not somebody to tell me I picked shit schools to apply to.

They aren't shit schools. They just aren't good schools for your situation. It is really quite simple.

1. The economy is terrible.
2. Law school hiring is parochial and regional.
3. You have zero ties to the markets these schools place to other than "a few friends" who live there.

These all add up to make any of these schools a questionable decision. I am concerned that you don't understand how bad legal hiring is right now, or how truly regional these schools are. But you asked "Where should I go?" and I think the overwhelming consensus here is that none of the above is the correct choice. It is ultimately your future and your money, so you do what you think is best, but don't expect those of us on this site to endorse your decision as a good one.


Again, I have no plans to graduate and go straight back to Cali. I understand that I am at a huge disadvantage because I have no concrete ties. With those three statements nobody would be able to leave an area 50 miles from where their base is unless it was for a T14 school then.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:44 pm

jdamele76 wrote:With those three statements nobody would be able to leave an area 50 miles from where their base is unless it was for a T14 school then.

Failed logic here, and definitely not what I am saying.

In any case, best of luck. I hope things work out for you.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby JCFindley » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:45 pm

jdamele76 wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Don't go. Your post is indicative of lack of coherent plan. You live in one place but apply to a list of unimpressive schools all over the country. Take some time off, work, figure out what you really want to do, get a plan, reapply.


I wouldn't call ASU, Alabama unimpressive. Additionally, I do not see whats wrong with MSU, Oregon, Nebraska or schools like them. Unless of course you call schools only in the top 50 impressive. Yeah they aren't T14 schools but they are well respected in their regions and I don't plan on attempting to get into a big law firm or anything. My point is that yeah I don't know exactly what I want to do but that's normal. I know I am leaning towards IP of Criminal law, all have good programs with pro's and con's and I need a little help deciding among my choices that I ACTUALLY have. I can live in any of these places and I will work my ass off to get the interviews to land a job, that doesn't mean there is no plan. Just because I am not set on one specific place I know I want to be in does not mean there is no plan. The plan is I know what type of places I am willing to live in and what schools I liked when researching them and loosely what type of law. If you don't like how I do things than relax and don't post. I am looking for insight not somebody to tell me I picked shit schools to apply to.


It gets that way on here sometimes... Well, a lot.

Romo actually does give very good advice especially on the ties thing from what I have read on here.

That said take a look at the three options you have right now. I have spent a lot of time in Nebraska. I like it there but that part of the midwest is not for everyone. It is HOT in the summer and it is COLD and windy in the winter with a week of Spring and Fall in between the seasons. Then there are two Nebraskas. Omaha and the rest. (Lincoln is also different as a college town to an extent.) Omaha is a nice modern medium sized city. Great downtown. Plenty to do. Cheap cost of living. The rest of NE is rural. Yeah there are some towns but they have a rural feel as well. Nothing wrong with that but outside of Omaha it is definitely a culture shock waiting to happen. Just stuff to be aware of besides the parochial nature of hiring which I will tell you is quite real in Nebraska and not just for law.

If NE is parochial Alabama is downright suspicious of people that are not from Alabama or its neighboring states. Good school but aside from the top of the class you may have a hard time coming from the bay area. Its not about you but it can get real southern there. Seriously, outside of Birmingham and Huntsville a Top Harvard grad would have a hard time finding work there without ties. Going to Alabama does help though as the state lives and dies by that school and to a lesser extent the rival.

ASU is in a city of immigrants both from the frozen north of the US and south of the border. What I know of Phoenix is that it isn't all that parochial.....

Don't know a thing about MSU or Oregon except that OU lost to Auburn in the BCS Championship last year....

JC

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:48 pm

romothesavior wrote:
jdamele76 wrote:With those three statements nobody would be able to leave an area 50 miles from where their base is unless it was for a T14 school then.

Failed logic here, and definitely not what I am saying.

In any case, best of luck. I hope things work out for you.


What are you trying to say then because I all I am getting is you have no connections to the Lansing, Midwest, Pacific Northwest Market. This with a bad economy means you will have little chances at earning employment.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Where should I go?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:51 pm

jdamele76 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
jdamele76 wrote:With those three statements nobody would be able to leave an area 50 miles from where their base is unless it was for a T14 school then.

Failed logic here, and definitely not what I am saying.

In any case, best of luck. I hope things work out for you.


What are you trying to say then because I all I am getting is you have no connections to the Lansing, Midwest, Pacific Northwest Market. This with a bad economy means you will have little chances at earning employment.

That's pretty much what I am saying, but from this conclusion, it does not follow that nobody can leave a 50 mile radius unless it is for a T14. You created a straw man of epic proportions.

jdamele76
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Where should I go?

Postby jdamele76 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:04 pm

JCFindley wrote:
jdamele76 wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Don't go. Your post is indicative of lack of coherent plan. You live in one place but apply to a list of unimpressive schools all over the country. Take some time off, work, figure out what you really want to do, get a plan, reapply.


I wouldn't call ASU, Alabama unimpressive. Additionally, I do not see whats wrong with MSU, Oregon, Nebraska or schools like them. Unless of course you call schools only in the top 50 impressive. Yeah they aren't T14 schools but they are well respected in their regions and I don't plan on attempting to get into a big law firm or anything. My point is that yeah I don't know exactly what I want to do but that's normal. I know I am leaning towards IP of Criminal law, all have good programs with pro's and con's and I need a little help deciding among my choices that I ACTUALLY have. I can live in any of these places and I will work my ass off to get the interviews to land a job, that doesn't mean there is no plan. Just because I am not set on one specific place I know I want to be in does not mean there is no plan. The plan is I know what type of places I am willing to live in and what schools I liked when researching them and loosely what type of law. If you don't like how I do things than relax and don't post. I am looking for insight not somebody to tell me I picked shit schools to apply to.


It gets that way on here sometimes... Well, a lot.

Romo actually does give very good advice especially on the ties thing from what I have read on here.

That said take a look at the three options you have right now. I have spent a lot of time in Nebraska. I like it there but that part of the midwest is not for everyone. It is HOT in the summer and it is COLD and windy in the winter with a week of Spring and Fall in between the seasons. Then there are two Nebraskas. Omaha and the rest. (Lincoln is also different as a college town to an extent.) Omaha is a nice modern medium sized city. Great downtown. Plenty to do. Cheap cost of living. The rest of NE is rural. Yeah there are some towns but they have a rural feel as well. Nothing wrong with that but outside of Omaha it is definitely a culture shock waiting to happen. Just stuff to be aware of besides the parochial nature of hiring which I will tell you is quite real in Nebraska and not just for law.

If NE is parochial Alabama is downright suspicious of people that are not from Alabama or its neighboring states. Good school but aside from the top of the class you may have a hard time coming from the bay area. Its not about you but it can get real southern there. Seriously, outside of Birmingham and Huntsville a Top Harvard grad would have a hard time finding work there without ties. Going to Alabama does help though as the state lives and dies by that school and to a lesser extent the rival.

ASU is in a city of immigrants both from the frozen north of the US and south of the border. What I know of Phoenix is that it isn't all that parochial.....

Don't know a thing about MSU or Oregon except that OU lost to Auburn in the BCS Championship last year....

JC


I have read Romo's other posts and I respect what he says. Its mainly Anon who I think is just trying to be a dick. I understand about the south. I got some family there (Texas) and its similar there not even with the law school factor but its a damn good school and has the type of programs I am interested in. I have spent summers in Texas and traveled throughout the south so its not much of a "shock" as NE. My main factors in picking schools were 1) a place I could stay once I graduate, 2) respected in that area, 3) good programs for what I want to study, 4) good undergrad programs for business. I knew I would have a hard time getting into the markets in any place other than the Bay so that's why I tried to pick schools that were respected in their areas and had good programs in what I am interested in studying. I visited NE and I totally get the culture shock part but I go to school in Reno which is Cali light ha but it kind of has prepared me for a Nebraska type atmosphere as it is much quieter and once you go east just 5 miles there is nothing. Still a big difference but surprisingly I loved it in NE. Y'all are super nice people and I am confident Nebraska would work with me in getting connections to make the parochial nature less intimidating. ASU is one school I actually don't know too much about... I understand they are somewhat similar to Cali in culture but again, respected school in an area which I feel comfortable in living.

Again though I understand I don't have good ties and that will make it hard, which Romo is certainly right. But that doesn't mean I can out right reject schools based off this. I think I did well to choose schools which fit for me to make this easier upon myself.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: galeatus, pd_1023 and 2 guests