UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. USD (60k)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should one go?

UCLA (216k)
7
25%
UCI (114k)
10
36%
USD (60k)
4
14%
Don't go
7
25%
 
Total votes: 28

rotel
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UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. USD (60k)

Postby rotel » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:52 pm

Amounts above are COA. ((Tuition - schollies) + COL). Interest is not included.

I want to live in California. I would prefer to live in SoCal after law school, especially non-LA SoCal (OC/SD). Still, I value the more diverse opportunities in LA.

I think I'm leaning toward UCI for the overall atmosphere there, small classes sizes, somewhat reasonable cost, and region. But UCLA is tempting for established prestige, and USD is tempting for being so cheap.

Edit: I'm not gunning for Biglaw, although on my greedier days I wouldn't rule it out. PI work most appeals to me--PD, impact litigation, immigration rights.

Edit 2: I changed "Retake/Don't go" to just "Don't go" because given my GPA, I don't think I could fare much better even if I did improve on the LSAT. I really want to go though, so I'm not sure.

Edit 3: Got outside confirmation that UCH (118k) is not in the running. It's gone.
Last edited by rotel on Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 6 times in total.

noggo10
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby noggo10 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:00 pm

What kind of law do you want?

CanadianWolf
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:04 pm

Ask USD for a full tuition scholarship based on your UCLA acceptance.

Consider retaking the LSAT if convinced that you'll put in enough effort to score at least 4 points higher.

Otherwise, UCI due to lowest cost & in the region of the state in which you want to work.

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bk1
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby bk1 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:06 pm

I assume you're not factoring the 3 years of interest that will accrue while you're in school. Also, are there any stips on these schollies?

UCLA is a straight up no at that price, imo. I'd probably lean towards your preference between UCI and UCH, but honestly they are about 30k too expensive (once interest is factored in).

What's your GPA/LSAT? How likely could you increase your LSAT and by how much?

rotel
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby rotel » Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:17 pm

bk1 wrote:I assume you're not factoring the 3 years of interest that will accrue while you're in school. Also, are there any stips on these schollies?

UCLA is a straight up no at that price, imo. I'd probably lean towards your preference between UCI and UCH, but honestly they are about 30k too expensive (once interest is factored in).

What's your GPA/LSAT? How likely could you increase your LSAT and by how much?


I edited the original post to address the retake option. It really isn't an option, so I changed the poll to just "Don't go." Given my GPA, any realistic LSAT increase wouldn't make a difference. This is the best I could hope for.

And, no, I did not calculate compounding interest for all four options, so to keep things even, I pretending interest does not exist.

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20160810
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby 20160810 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:15 pm

It's a tie between UCLA and "Don't go."

tlsfuntimes
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby tlsfuntimes » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:13 pm

I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

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20160810
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby 20160810 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:27 pm

SBL wrote:
aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.


When I was considering USD last year I went through all the NLJ 250 firm websites and looked for USD grads. There were about 30 per year (out of a class of 300) from the classes of 2006-2010. 10% isn't very good to begin with, and many of those 30 were folks with strong IP backgrounds. And we all know things didn't get any better after 2010.

tlsfuntimes
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby tlsfuntimes » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:01 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
SBL wrote:
aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.


When I was considering USD last year I went through all the NLJ 250 firm websites and looked for USD grads. There were about 30 per year (out of a class of 300) from the classes of 2006-2010. 10% isn't very good to begin with, and many of those 30 were folks with strong IP backgrounds. And we all know things didn't get any better after 2010.


Yeah I feel you both. My comment was more to suggest that if you want to stay in SD, it's an option. Though it is true, SD's legal market is small.

rotel
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby rotel » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:09 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
SBL wrote:
aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.


When I was considering USD last year I went through all the NLJ 250 firm websites and looked for USD grads. There were about 30 per year (out of a class of 300) from the classes of 2006-2010. 10% isn't very good to begin with, and many of those 30 were folks with strong IP backgrounds. And we all know things didn't get any better after 2010.


Yeah, people I know in SD have told me that USD has a really strong reputation in SD and that SD is pretty insular, etc.. But for whatever reason, at least now, it doesn't seem to be translating into much actual employment. I spoke to a few law students on campus, and they were not incredibly optimistic, and the couple times I mentioned I got into UCI also and wasn't sure where to go (hadn't heard about UCLA yet), they immediately told me to go there instead, no matter the money.

I think UCLA is way too expensive, especially given that I don't even want to be in LA, and UCLA's prestige benefit gets diluted somewhat as you leave the city. UCI seems like the right fit, but I tend to agree with bk all around, and I do think it's 30-40k too much. I'm going to choose one at the end of the day, though. I don't think these are terrible options for where I want to live, but each is just a little too expensive or a little too limiting.

Edit: I'm really leaning toward UCI. I loved it there, and if it wasn't for UCLA having a firmly established reputation I would pick it no question. As far as I could tell, UCI is a better place to be--a better culture, environment and education (for me). I say this because after noting my internal responses to people's comments, it's clear that UCI is my default choice, and I'll need a reason to go somewhere else.
Last edited by rotel on Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:19 pm

One hundred and two thousand reasons. Plus interest.

rotel
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:12 pm

Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby rotel » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:42 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:One hundred and two thousand reasons. Plus interest.


Are you agreeing with me? It feels like a disagreeing post, but the words agree. 102,000 reasons+ interest to go to UCI, right? I edited my post for clarity.

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20160810
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby 20160810 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:23 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
SBL wrote:
aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.


When I was considering USD last year I went through all the NLJ 250 firm websites and looked for USD grads. There were about 30 per year (out of a class of 300) from the classes of 2006-2010. 10% isn't very good to begin with, and many of those 30 were folks with strong IP backgrounds. And we all know things didn't get any better after 2010.

I don't even know if 10% of the class at Davis and Hastings got NLJ250 gigs last year; I'd be shocked if USD did any better. Data from 2006-2007 is as relevant now as... I don't have a good analogy, but that was another time. I'm willing to bet biglaw placement at USD last year was well under 5%.

rotel
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby rotel » Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:14 pm

SBL wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
SBL wrote:
aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.


When I was considering USD last year I went through all the NLJ 250 firm websites and looked for USD grads. There were about 30 per year (out of a class of 300) from the classes of 2006-2010. 10% isn't very good to begin with, and many of those 30 were folks with strong IP backgrounds. And we all know things didn't get any better after 2010.

I don't even know if 10% of the class at Davis and Hastings got NLJ250 gigs last year; I'd be shocked if USD did any better. Data from 2006-2007 is as relevant now as... I don't have a good analogy, but that was another time. I'm willing to bet biglaw placement at USD last year was well under 5%.


Biglaw placement isn't all that relevant; I'm not at all gearing up for biglaw. But I do think you're right, or approximately right, and it applies to job placement generally. USD has been hit pretty hard by the collapse. It has one market. Before the collapse, I'm told it did quite well, but as I noted earlier--students there do not appear to be optimistic.

But it's cheap, and it places okayish in an area within the region where I want to live.

UCLA is great, but 216k+ feels apocalyptic. 114k+ feels better and I really love it there. UCLA is winning the poll by a mile, but I'm not clear on what that 102k+ would buy me.

Edit: seems the poll reset when I deleted UCH. I didn't know that would happen. UCLA was winning by a mile before the reset.

g-rauf
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. UCH (118k) v. USD (60k)

Postby g-rauf » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:23 am

SBL wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
SBL wrote:
aringer99 wrote:I worked at a law firm in SD for two years and can say that USD has a strong reputation there and has educated many of the attorneys that practice in SD - so most grads do stay in the area.

They stay in the area because they have no choice. A JD from USD has zero pull in any other market. Plus which, SD is a small market. I wouldn't be shocked if there were like 30 summer associates hired each year in the whole city, and most of the good spots go to students from Berkeley and UCLA. Don't go to USD. Just don't.


When I was considering USD last year I went through all the NLJ 250 firm websites and looked for USD grads. There were about 30 per year (out of a class of 300) from the classes of 2006-2010. 10% isn't very good to begin with, and many of those 30 were folks with strong IP backgrounds. And we all know things didn't get any better after 2010.

I don't even know if 10% of the class at Davis and Hastings got NLJ250 gigs last year; I'd be shocked if USD did any better. Data from 2006-2007 is as relevant now as... I don't have a good analogy, but that was another time. I'm willing to bet biglaw placement at USD last year was well under 5%.



Davis - 17 out of 195 students (8.72%)
Hastings - 35 out of 412 students (8.5%)

nope, didn't hit 10% :shock:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

lawlcat4179
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Re: UCLA (216k) v. UCI (114k) v. USD (60k)

Postby lawlcat4179 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:59 am

Ugh, at least in my opinion, your options are not the greatest. I'm torn between don't go and UCLA.

I'm probably by far one of the most debt averse people on this site, but I honestly don't understand the people picking UCI though, so if someone supporting them can make their case I think that would help. So far the only real reasoning I've heard is lower cost. But here's the thing. At over 100k to go to UCI you are already over the threshold of the amount of debt mattering. If you strike out from either school you are screwed. You would be just as unable to service 110k in debt as you would 230k from UCLA. When you graduate from UCI you would be looking at over 1000 a month in student loans. So whether you go to UCI or UCLA you are going to have to enroll in IBR, which will take 15% (I think?) of your salary for 10 years if you are in PI. Then the loans go away. So if you commit to the PI route for 10 years, the end tuition cost at both UCI and UCLA will be exactly the same.

The key factor here though is that you would have to be sure that you want to do PI and commit to it for 10 years. It theoretically wouldn't even have to be law related, anything PI would discharge the loans after 10 years.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if you go into PI, your student loan payments will be exactly the same because of IBR. At least if you go to UCLA you have a better chance of getting a good PI job and being able to cash in on the benefits of IBR.

But then again, does anyone have any placement stats for UCI (or even projections). I'm not sure how well regarded they are as they are so new, but I'm assuming they are lower on the totem pole than UCLA, and more comparable to Davis or Hastings.

Just something to think about, but best of luck with whatever you decide, I just think taking the middle ground on debt in this situation isnt the best idea, when striking out at both schools would leave you unable to make your payments. Go big or go home.




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