Miami vs San Diego

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alexandra23
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Miami vs San Diego

Postby alexandra23 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:31 am

Two of the schools I am deciding between are Miami and San Diego. Scholarship from San Diego and anticipating one from Miami but haven't heard yet.

Which would you choose?

srfngdd6
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby srfngdd6 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:35 am

where are you from/want to work

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:39 am

Examine the COA's at both and figure out which one you'd want to live in/near. Both are demonstrably different in regional feel. I've been to both.

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:44 am

srfngdd6 wrote:where are you from/want to work

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padawanphil
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby padawanphil » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:44 am

srfngdd6 wrote:where are you from/want to work

alexandra23
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby alexandra23 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:49 am

From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:57 am

alexandra23 wrote:From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.


That's the only thing that should be your motivating factor. You should pick where you want to live/work. They are both different. And they both have high COA's depending on where you live. As a fellow Midwest resident, you should check out the price of apts and stuff as you will be drastically more in gas money, grocery money, etc.. CA also has a 9.75% sales tax rate. San Diego's local rate is 7.75% but other cities such as LA have an 8.75%. You don't realize it but over time, those monies add up.

It's all just stuff to consider.

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romothesavior
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:14 pm

alexandra23 wrote:From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.

Both of these schools are regional in nature and located in small legal markets that you have no ties to. Going to either one absent a full ride would likely be a colossal mistake, and even then it would probably not lead to a great outcome.

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:21 pm

romothesavior wrote:
alexandra23 wrote:From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.

Both of these schools are regional in nature and located in small legal markets that you have no ties to. Going to either one absent a full ride would likely be a colossal mistake, and even then it would probably not lead to a great outcome.


Don't quit your day job.

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romothesavior
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:22 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
alexandra23 wrote:From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.

Both of these schools are regional in nature and located in small legal markets that you have no ties to. Going to either one absent a full ride would likely be a colossal mistake, and even then it would probably not lead to a great outcome.

Don't quit your day job.

Let me ask you this... What in my post do you disagree with?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:28 pm

romothesavior wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
alexandra23 wrote:From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.

Both of these schools are regional in nature and located in small legal markets that you have no ties to. Going to either one absent a full ride would likely be a colossal mistake, and even then it would probably not lead to a great outcome.

Don't quit your day job.

Let me ask you this... What in my post do you disagree with?


I'm really hoping that was a quote fail by Bearsgrl and she is directing that line to the OP.

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:39 pm

romothesavior wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
alexandra23 wrote:From the Midwest but have ties to Florida and am eager to go to school in a different area. Unfortunately, I am not sure yet where I would like to work.

Both of these schools are regional in nature and located in small legal markets that you have no ties to. Going to either one absent a full ride would likely be a colossal mistake, and even then it would probably not lead to a great outcome.

Don't quit your day job.

Let me ask you this... What in my post do you disagree with?


Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.

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thexfactor
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby thexfactor » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:24 pm

LOL I just laughed really hard in the library...

If you are top 5% at either school you prob woudln't need ties to the region to get a job. Short of that, i think ties are very important. There is an oversupply for lawyers and firms will use multiple things to screen and weed out candidates. Unless you have speical language/IP skills why would they take you over 1000x other candidates that are from the area. Both regions are pretty small legal markets.

JamesChapman23
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby JamesChapman23 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:04 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.


So extremely naive, the midwest and southern law markets are almost tribal in their demand for associates to have ties to the region. Many of these firms (decent firms that pay around 100k) even list their associate's high school to reassure clients of their local ties to the community. It was the first question of every interview and I felt I almost needed to provide a birth certificate or something.

Kids in the top 25 wo/ ties would struggle to get interviews that kids with median would get with ties.

So yea, it is a huge factor that is often overlooked by worthless 0Ls that think they know everything. I certainly overlooked this factor in thinking the school was enough of a tie to that community. Wrong.

My guess is Chicago, New York, and SF are quite different in this respect, as employers figure these are "destination" cities.
Last edited by JamesChapman23 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

071816
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby 071816 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 pm

BearsGrl wrote:Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.


Image

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padawanphil
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby padawanphil » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:08 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Let me ask you this... What in my post do you disagree with?


Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:17 pm

thexfactor wrote:LOL I just laughed really hard in the library...

If you are top 5% at either school you prob woudln't need ties to the region to get a job. Short of that, i think ties are very important. There is an oversupply for lawyers and firms will use multiple things to screen and weed out candidates. Unless you have speical language/IP skills why would they take you over 1000x other candidates that are from the area. Both regions are pretty small legal markets.


I assumed this information as a given. Which is why my comment still stands. I firmly accept that people will disagree with this.

I am just saying that I have had different results in a different tract.

Call me naive (not you), but my resume says otherwise. That suffices me. :mrgreen:

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:22 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.


So extremely naive, the midwest and southern law markets are almost tribal in their demand for associates to have ties to the region. Many of these firms (decent firms that pay around 100k) even list their associate's high school to reassure clients of their local ties to the community. It was the first question of every interview and I felt I almost needed to provide a birth certificate or something.

Kids in the top 25 wo/ ties would struggle to get interviews that kids with median would get with ties.

So yea, it is a huge factor that is often overlooked by worthless 0Ls that think they know everything. I certainly overlooked this factor in thinking the school was enough of a tie to that community. Wrong.

My guess is Chicago, New York, and SF are quite different in this respect, as employers figure these are "destination" cities.


I don't disagree with that. I never said that ties didn't matter. I just said that if you don't have ties, it's not impossible to gain ties.

It would seem common knowledge to me that the Midwest and Southern markets would want employees from their community or at least who had solid attachment to it. This is the culture of these states in general. I wouldn't expect otherwise. I merely assumed this as common knowledge and non-point.

I have also worked in more business oriented fields that demanded networking skills so networking is second nature. The legal industry is predominantly a networking industry so if you're solid at that, you're going to have better opportunities to "gain ties" to the area. That was my point.

Ties help, but you can gain ties. You cultivate relationships. This is normal standard business procedure.

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:24 pm

padawanphil wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Let me ask you this... What in my post do you disagree with?


Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence


Seeing as Wiki can be easily manipulated, Wiki is not a prime source. :) I appreciate it though. Like I said, we can agree to disagree. My resume is proof that you don't need to have ties in order to gain access to rich (in spirit)/rare opportunities within a region.

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romothesavior
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:28 pm

BearsGrl wrote:Call me naive (not you), but my resume says otherwise. That suffices me. :mrgreen:

Congratulations on being the exception. No one says getting a job without ties is impossible. It is just much more difficult and requires better credentials, networking, etc. With the current sorry state of the market, it is unwise to put yourself behind the 8 ball before you even staft. No one says its impossible, so don't turn what we're saying into a straw man. Which is exactly what you're doing. We're not dealing with impossibility vs. possibility. We're saying it is far more difficult.

Just curious, you keep talking about your resume. What are your grades/school range? WE, IP, or URM? If you're top 10% at a T1 or a black IP student with 5 years of solid work experience, then you aren't exactly representative. Assuming median or even top third at the schools listed, it would be foolish to attend without ties. Obviously other factors can change the equation, but for the average applicant, this is sound advice.

JamesChapman23
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby JamesChapman23 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:29 pm

BearsGrl wrote:
JamesChapman23 wrote:
BearsGrl wrote:
Nearly everything that you wrote.

As someone that has relocated to another region, I know that the "ties" to the community argument isn't a good one to use. I can show you, through my resume, that you don't need ties to the community in order to gain solid employment. You can have your opinion (and you seem to display this all over the site), but it's just not a credible argument.

Does it help to have ties? Yes. Is someone going to fail in a market because they have no ties? No.


So extremely naive, the midwest and southern law markets are almost tribal in their demand for associates to have ties to the region. Many of these firms (decent firms that pay around 100k) even list their associate's high school to reassure clients of their local ties to the community. It was the first question of every interview and I felt I almost needed to provide a birth certificate or something.

Kids in the top 25 wo/ ties would struggle to get interviews that kids with median would get with ties.

So yea, it is a huge factor that is often overlooked by worthless 0Ls that think they know everything. I certainly overlooked this factor in thinking the school was enough of a tie to that community. Wrong.

My guess is Chicago, New York, and SF are quite different in this respect, as employers figure these are "destination" cities.


I don't disagree with that. I never said that ties didn't matter. I just said that if you don't have ties, it's not impossible to gain ties.

It would seem common knowledge to me that the Midwest and Southern markets would want employees from their community or at least who had solid attachment to it. This is the culture of these states in general. I wouldn't expect otherwise. I merely assumed this as common knowledge and non-point.

I have also worked in more business oriented fields that demanded networking skills so networking is second nature. The legal industry is predominantly a networking industry so if you're solid at that, you're going to have better opportunities to "gain ties" to the area. That was my point.

Ties help, but you can gain ties. You cultivate relationships. This is normal standard business procedure.


What are you talking about? Unless you can gain those ties via a time machine, 1L networking is not going to convince anybody you are native. You better have superior grades and credentials to overcome those lack of ties or you are not going to get taken seriously during 2L OCI. Period, end of story. At TTTs like San Diego or Miami, things are hard enough without the lack of ties.

If you are talking about post-grad sh*t law, that networking argument has alot more merit. I'm talking about jobs actually worth having, one that can actually pay back the debt incurred by going to expensive privates like San Diego Or Miami.
Last edited by JamesChapman23 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby romothesavior » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:31 pm

He wasn't citing Wikipedia for anything. He was saying that your conclusions are based on anecdotal evidence. How do you not understand this?

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:33 pm

JamesChapman23 wrote: At TTTs like San Diego or Miami,

Miami isn't a t3

JamesChapman23
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby JamesChapman23 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:36 pm

Mr. Pancakes wrote:
JamesChapman23 wrote: At TTTs like San Diego or Miami,

Miami isn't a t3


Beyond the T20, everything is a TTT. Pretending like there is a real different between tier 2 and tier 3 schools is just buying into US News propaganda. The employment outcomes are not very different, although perhaps the T2 has more library volumes or student professor ratio.

BearsGrl
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Re: Miami vs San Diego

Postby BearsGrl » Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:40 pm

romothesavior wrote:He wasn't citing Wikipedia for anything. He was saying that your conclusions are based on anecdotal evidence. How do you not understand this?


I get that, but seeing as I have actually been a statistic, I think anecdotal evidence supersedes generic ramblings. But that's just me.

Like I said, we can all differ but the point still stands that relocation is not a deterrent.




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