The reality of NYU at Sticker

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Samara
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Samara » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:26 pm

bk1 wrote:
Samara wrote:Oh, I was under the impression that people took the COA amount and stretched it out to cover the whole calendar year. Thus, the summer money would be "free money." And OP would be staying put for 1L summer. Is this not what people typically do?

Some people have leftover, but I don't think the majority or even close to it have enough to cover the entire summer. If you stretched NU's CoA to 12 months it would be 1500/month. It is possible to live within that amount but I think very few do, especially if they live close to the school.

Really? Huh. I guess I didn't look at it too closely since I will also have a spousal income. Of course, that means no roommates. Ugh, Chicago is so expensive.

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albusdumbledore
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby albusdumbledore » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:26 pm

bk1 wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:The real question is why you would voluntarily take 10 years to repay that money.


Because it's not necessarily that easy to grind biglaw long enough to pay it back in less than that.

If you can survive one year in Manhattan on 75k to live on, I fail to see why you can't do it for more.

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boosk
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby boosk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:27 pm

Indifferent wrote:
boosk wrote:after 7 years, you've payed $252,000 back on your loan, but still owe another $110,400

*involuntary snicker*


DAMMIT, tls needs a spell checker

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bk1
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:29 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:If you can survive one year in Manhattan on 75k to live on, I fail to see why you can't do it for more.

Huh? It's not about the money not being enough, it's about not sticking through biglaw for more than 3 years. At that point I'm assuming salary gets downgraded to something like 100k (pre-tax) while you still have 150k debt.

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albusdumbledore
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby albusdumbledore » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:30 pm

bk1 wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:If you can survive one year in Manhattan on 75k to live on, I fail to see why you can't do it for more.

Huh? It's not about the money not being enough, it's about not sticking through biglaw for more than 3 years. At that point I'm assuming salary gets downgraded to something like 100k (pre-tax) while you still have 150k debt.

Gotcha...I thought he was assuming being able to stick it out.

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boosk
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby boosk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:30 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
bk1 wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:The real question is why you would voluntarily take 10 years to repay that money.


Because it's not necessarily that easy to grind biglaw long enough to pay it back in less than that.

If you can survive one year in Manhattan on 75k to live on, I fail to see why you can't do it for more.


that would be living 10k under my current standard of living for my first 6 years of biglaw... that would be nine or ten years from now until I could return (and surpass) my current way of life... that would suck

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bk1
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:31 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:Gotcha...I thought he was assuming being able to stick it out.


You're right he was, but I think that's foolish to assume.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:31 pm

boosk wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
bk1 wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:The real question is why you would voluntarily take 10 years to repay that money.


Because it's not necessarily that easy to grind biglaw long enough to pay it back in less than that.

If you can survive one year in Manhattan on 75k to live on, I fail to see why you can't do it for more.


that would be living 10k under my current standard of living for my first 6 years of biglaw... that would be nine or ten years from now until I could return (and surpass) my current way of life... that would suck


Your income is tax-free?

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boosk
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby boosk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:33 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Your income is tax-free?


whoah got me there, 36k after-tax would be exactly where I'm at now... so I'd be exactly the same for the next decade. That would still suck.

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bk1
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby bk1 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:34 pm

boosk wrote:that would be living 10k under my current standard of living for my first 6 years of biglaw... that would be nine or ten years from now until I could return (and surpass) my current way of life... that would suck


If it's all about the money for you then you could surpass your current standard of living at year 6 if you lived off 70k post-tax and poured everything into your loans. At that point your takehome would skyrocket (you'd be making around 250k pre-tax with no loans to pay). But as I said I don't think it's safe to assume you would be able to grind it out that long.

And this is also why I asked if you wanted to be a lawyer, do biglaw, and/or do other law things after biglaw. If all you're in it for is increasing your EV then it doesn't necessarily seem like a smart thing to do (especially considering there will be 3 years of foregone wages while you're in school on top of the debt).

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Samara
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Samara » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:35 pm

boosk wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Your income is tax-free?


whoah got me there, 36k after-tax would be exactly where I'm at now... so I'd be exactly the same for the next decade. That would still suck.

But presumably the intangibles of NYC more than compensate for the monetary difference, no?

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albusdumbledore
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby albusdumbledore » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:36 pm

boosk wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Your income is tax-free?


whoah got me there, 36k after-tax would be exactly where I'm at now... so I'd be exactly the same for the next decade. That would still suck.

Also, do you really blow every penny of 36k a year on just living expenses?

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drdolittle
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby drdolittle » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:37 pm

boosk wrote:
drdolittle wrote:OP, are you sure you won't qualify for need based grants or other COA discounts either now or in the years to come as you accrue more debt? Does your predicted $250K graduation debt include UG loans? Otherwise, your calculations indeed would make attending NYU hard to justify, at least financially. Also, how old are you, what's your long-term career/earning potential in your current $45K/yr job?

I'm just trying to look at my worst-case scenario for debt, I suppose my actual debt could be closer to 200k, but thats still a beast. I'm 24 and I'm not really sure what the long-term earning potential is at my current position. Knowing that would make the decision of (not)going to law school a lot easier, haha.

Where do you want to practice long-term? Looking at your LSN profile, UT might be a decent compromise for you with its lower COA & $, especially if you want to return to the southwest where UT should actually have more traction than NYU. If you want to return, I don't think NYU would be relatively worth it then.
Last edited by drdolittle on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Indifferent
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:37 pm

boosk wrote:
Indifferent wrote:
boosk wrote:after 7 years, you've payed $252,000 back on your loan, but still owe another $110,400

*involuntary snicker*


DAMMIT, tls needs a spell checker

Payed is actually a word, so a spellchecker wouldn't catch that. Also, download Chrome, it has spell check built into the browser.

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boosk
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby boosk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:38 pm

Samara wrote:
boosk wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Your income is tax-free?


whoah got me there, 36k after-tax would be exactly where I'm at now... so I'd be exactly the same for the next decade. That would still suck.

But presumably the intangibles of NYC more than compensate for the monetary difference, no?


what are these intangibles I've been hearing so much about?

albusdumbledore wrote:
boosk wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Your income is tax-free?


whoah got me there, 36k after-tax would be exactly where I'm at now... so I'd be exactly the same for the next decade. That would still suck.

Also, do you really blow every penny of 36k a year on just living expenses?


lol, no way

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:39 pm

boosk wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Your income is tax-free?


whoah got me there, 36k after-tax would be exactly where I'm at now... so I'd be exactly the same for the next decade. That would still suck.


Here's the thing: You can live comfortably on 36K in Phoenix, but you don't HAVE to spend 75K to live comfortably in Manhattan. I really don't think your lifestyle will be all that affected if you don't spend double on living expenses. It's just different.

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Samara
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Samara » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:41 pm

boosk wrote:
Samara wrote:But presumably the intangibles of NYC more than compensate for the monetary difference, no?


what are these intangibles I've been hearing so much about?

haha, well, I think NYC is a festering shithole, so I'm the wrong person to ask. The ridiculous COL is just one reason I have zero intention of ever living in NYC.

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boosk
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby boosk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:42 pm

drdolittle wrote:
boosk wrote:
drdolittle wrote:OP, are you sure you won't qualify for need based grants or other COA discounts either now or in the years to come as you accrue more debt? Does your predicted $250K graduation debt include UG loans? Otherwise, your calculations indeed would make attending NYU hard to justify, at least financially. Also, how old are you, what's your long-term career/earning potential in your current $45K/yr job?

I'm just trying to look at my worst-case scenario for debt, I suppose my actual debt could be closer to 200k, but thats still a beast. I'm 24 and I'm not really sure what the long-term earning potential is at my current position. Knowing that would make the decision of (not)going to law school a lot easier, haha.

Where do you want to practice long-term? Looking at your LSN profile, UT might be a decent compromise for you with its lower COA & $, especially if you want to return to the southwest where UT should actually have more traction than NYU. If you want to return, I don't think NYU would be relatively worth it then.


is the bolded true? I've heard differently

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Indifferent
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:45 pm

boosk wrote:10-YEAR REPAYMENT SCHEDULE (total loan payment: $362,400)
YEAR 1: 167k (gross) = $75,517.50 (Manhattan Net) = $36,981.91 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 2: 180k (gross) = $87,733 (Manhattan Net) = $40,802.77 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 3: 200k (gross) = $99,803 (Manhattan Net) = $46,416.27 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 4: 230k (gross) = $117,908 (Manhattan Net) = $54,836.52 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 5: 255k (gross) = $132,995.5 (Manhattan Net) = $61,853.40 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 6: 285k (gross) = $151,100 (Manhattan Net) = $70,273.42 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 7: 302k (gross) = $161,360 (Manhattan Net) = $75,045.13 (PHX Metro Translation)

I guess I can be partially helpful.

I would argue that the bolded section should be revised, or at least discounted at something like 25-35%, considering that the 5-year attrition rate from big firms is something like 75% (I am going off the top of my head here).

I don't know what in-house or smaller firm starting rates are, but I don't think they're equivalent to what 6/7th year associates at big firms earn.

I think you're also failing to take into account spring bonuses (although that won't really affect your calculations too dramatically).

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boosk
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby boosk » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:49 pm

Indifferent wrote:
boosk wrote:10-YEAR REPAYMENT SCHEDULE (total loan payment: $362,400)
YEAR 1: 167k (gross) = $75,517.50 (Manhattan Net) = $36,981.91 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 2: 180k (gross) = $87,733 (Manhattan Net) = $40,802.77 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 3: 200k (gross) = $99,803 (Manhattan Net) = $46,416.27 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 4: 230k (gross) = $117,908 (Manhattan Net) = $54,836.52 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 5: 255k (gross) = $132,995.5 (Manhattan Net) = $61,853.40 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 6: 285k (gross) = $151,100 (Manhattan Net) = $70,273.42 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 7: 302k (gross) = $161,360 (Manhattan Net) = $75,045.13 (PHX Metro Translation)

I guess I can be partially helpful.

I would argue that the bolded section should be revised, or at least discounted at something like 50%, considering that the 5-year attrition rate from big firms is something like 75% (I am going off the top of my head here).

I don't know what in-house or smaller firm starting rates are, but I don't think they're equivalent to what 6/7th year associates at big firms earn.

I think you're also failing to take into account spring bonuses (although that won't really affect your calculations too dramatically).


are these the same amounts?

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sunynp
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby sunynp » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:50 pm

Samara wrote:
boosk wrote:
Samara wrote:But presumably the intangibles of NYC more than compensate for the monetary difference, no?


what are these intangibles I've been hearing so much about?

haha, well, I think NYC is a festering shithole, so I'm the wrong person to ask. The ridiculous COL is just one reason I have zero intention of ever living in NYC.

I love new york. I've lived here my whole life. But even I can't believe how expensive everything is. The last theater tickets i got were ridiculous- but the show was great. My other complaint is that despite the cost, things sell out here quickly.I can't imagine the sticker shock people must feel when they come from other places.

But also I'm in corporate and the best work is here. Would I move here to go to school under that much debt? Not in this market. But I'm very cautious.

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drdolittle
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby drdolittle » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:52 pm

boosk wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
boosk wrote:
drdolittle wrote:OP, are you sure you won't qualify for need based grants or other COA discounts either now or in the years to come as you accrue more debt? Does your predicted $250K graduation debt include UG loans? Otherwise, your calculations indeed would make attending NYU hard to justify, at least financially. Also, how old are you, what's your long-term career/earning potential in your current $45K/yr job?

I'm just trying to look at my worst-case scenario for debt, I suppose my actual debt could be closer to 200k, but thats still a beast. I'm 24 and I'm not really sure what the long-term earning potential is at my current position. Knowing that would make the decision of (not)going to law school a lot easier, haha.

Where do you want to practice long-term? Looking at your LSN profile, UT might be a decent compromise for you with its lower COA & $, especially if you want to return to the southwest where UT should actually have more traction than NYU. If you want to return, I don't think NYU would be relatively worth it then.


is the bolded true? I've heard differently

I think it's certainly true for TX, and probably or arguably true as a general statement for the nearby region. There's no question though that NYU places best in NYC, and since NYC has the most biglaw jobs this tends to heavily skew its biglaw stats.
Last edited by drdolittle on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Indifferent
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:53 pm

boosk wrote:
Indifferent wrote:
boosk wrote:10-YEAR REPAYMENT SCHEDULE (total loan payment: $362,400)
YEAR 1: 167k (gross) = $75,517.50 (Manhattan Net) = $36,981.91 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 2: 180k (gross) = $87,733 (Manhattan Net) = $40,802.77 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 3: 200k (gross) = $99,803 (Manhattan Net) = $46,416.27 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 4: 230k (gross) = $117,908 (Manhattan Net) = $54,836.52 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 5: 255k (gross) = $132,995.5 (Manhattan Net) = $61,853.40 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 6: 285k (gross) = $151,100 (Manhattan Net) = $70,273.42 (PHX Metro Translation)
YEAR 7: 302k (gross) = $161,360 (Manhattan Net) = $75,045.13 (PHX Metro Translation)

I guess I can be partially helpful.

I would argue that the bolded section should be revised, or at least discounted at something like 50%, considering that the 5-year attrition rate from big firms is something like 75% (I am going off the top of my head here).

I don't know what in-house or smaller firm starting rates are, but I don't think they're equivalent to what 6/7th year associates at big firms earn.

I think you're also failing to take into account spring bonuses (although that won't really affect your calculations too dramatically).


are these the same amounts?

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/associat ... -sc-scale/

I don't know if all firms pay that well.

ahnhub
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby ahnhub » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:29 pm

If you think your odds at Biglaw from NYU are basically a coin flip, then oh my god you should not go at sticker.

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Indifferent
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Re: The reality of NYU at Sticker

Postby Indifferent » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm

ahnhub wrote:If you think your odds at Biglaw from NYU are basically a coin flip, then oh my god you should not go at sticker.

This is a dramatic misconception. In a good economy, which we are heading towards (I hope), NYU placed about 55% of its students in NLJ 250 firms and maybe 10% in federal clerkships. Source. Given that many NYUers self select into PI/business/small firms/what have you, I would argue that during OCI, more than 80% of students trying to get SAs got them.

So, yeah, not quite a coin flip.

ETA: fudged the numbers a bit




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