Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

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Michigan v NYU

Michigan (70k debt)
42
58%
NYU (110k debt)
30
42%
 
Total votes: 72

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aekea
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Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby aekea » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:36 pm

I had basically decided on Michigan but I just got a scholarship offer from NYU and now I don't know what to do. My calculated debt is based on scholarships and personal savings I'll be putting toward law school so the numbers aren't exact, but they should be close.

I'm from Northern California and I want to get back to the Bay Area after law school. I was rejected at Stanford and wait-listed at Berkeley so I don't have any competitive California options. I'm also in at Columbia, but I haven't heard back on scholarships and know that I'd pick Michigan over Columbia at sticker.

Basically, wondering what people think. Is NYU significantly better in West Coast placement to justify taking out an extra $40,000 in loans?

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Tadatsune
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Tadatsune » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:50 pm

Can you negotiate with Mich for more $$$? Also, if you are facing a deadline tell Columbia so you can get your award faster.

Otherwise, I'd pick NYU.

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aekea
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby aekea » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:01 pm

I haven't tried to negotiate with Michigan yet but I do know that they are pretty difficult to negotiate with. They gave me one of their larger non-Darrow awards and more than NYU so I'm not holding out hope that the Michigan scholarship is going to budge.

lawyerwannabe
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby lawyerwannabe » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:16 pm

Voted Michigan. Less debt and maybe better CA prospects? Hard to tell because NYU students largely self-select into the NYC market . . .

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smokeylarue
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby smokeylarue » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm

The recent NLJ250 numbers for Michigan scare the shit out of me, I'll vote NYU worth an extra 40k.

03121202698008
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby 03121202698008 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:35 pm

Do those figures include cost I living? If not, that will make NYU even more. Honestly, I'd be surprised if we don't put more people on the West coast than NYU...

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aekea
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby aekea » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:04 pm

blowhard wrote:Do those figures include cost I living? If not, that will make NYU even more. Honestly, I'd be surprised if we don't put more people on the West coast than NYU...


Michigan gave me a little bit more than NYU in scholarship money and the rest of the difference is from cost of living.

Real Madrid
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Real Madrid » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:17 am

Tadatsune wrote:Can you negotiate with Mich for more $$$? Also, if you are facing a deadline tell Columbia so you can get your award faster.

Otherwise, I'd pick NYU.


No. NYU is only superior to MVPB in NYC. In fact, an argument could probably be made that some of these schools are superior to NYU in particular regions of the country - Michigan in California being one such example.

Take Michigan and don't look back. Just think of it as $40,000+ you'll never have to pay back.

t14fanboy
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby t14fanboy » Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:35 am

Real Madrid wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:Can you negotiate with Mich for more $$$? Also, if you are facing a deadline tell Columbia so you can get your award faster.

Otherwise, I'd pick NYU.


No. NYU is only superior to MVPB in NYC. In fact, an argument could probably be made that some of these schools are superior to NYU in particular regions of the country - Michigan in California being one such example.

Take Michigan and don't look back. Just think of it as $40,000+ you'll never have to pay back.


+1.

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JustE
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby JustE » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:12 am

t14fanboy wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:Can you negotiate with Mich for more $$$? Also, if you are facing a deadline tell Columbia so you can get your award faster.

Otherwise, I'd pick NYU.


No. NYU is only superior to MVPB in NYC. In fact, an argument could probably be made that some of these schools are superior to NYU in particular regions of the country - Michigan in California being one such example.

Take Michigan and don't look back. Just think of it as $40,000+ you'll never have to pay back.


+1.

+2. Not even sure why anyone would argue so strongly for NYU. They are peer schools and NYU has a slight edge in NY. If you want to like out west, Michigan is a far superior option here with the cash.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:53 am

JustE wrote:Not even sure why anyone would argue so strongly for NYU.


Because New York is where the jobs are right now. Sure, we'd all love to get back to California, but if that doesn't work out...

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JustE
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby JustE » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:19 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
JustE wrote:Not even sure why anyone would argue so strongly for NYU.


Because New York is where the jobs are right now. Sure, we'd all love to get back to California, but if that doesn't work out...


I dig it. I've just always thought that once you factor in cost of living, you can find a comparable paying job in other markets even if you strike out of BigLaw... Esp with under 100k in debt. I must admit, I am a bit biased against NY's high costs, tho. To each his own.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Tadatsune » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:28 pm

First off, OP hasn't got info about money yet from Columbia. It would be best to get that info before making any decision.

Secondly, OP wants to go back to Cali. Now, I don't know jack shit about the Cali market, but everyone says it's hard to break into. OP has ties, which are operative independent of which school is chosen. Now, are you really telling me that, discounting self-selection, that Michigan is going to place better in Cali than NYU? Assuming the placement power is equal, you still have the fact that NYU has better overall employment stats. So, the question is whether that is worth 40K. I'm inclined to think it is.

That said, Michigan is a very good school. It's not like the OP is likely to go wrong either way.

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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby dooood » Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:47 pm

Tadatsune wrote:Now, are you really telling me that, discounting self-selection, that Michigan is going to place better in Cali than NYU?

Talk about poisoning the well. To answer your loaded question, they'll place very similarly and Mich may even place better. The only reason to go to NYU here is if OP recognizes that jobs in CA are extremely hard to come by and that he may wind up having to work in NY, where there are many more jobs. In which case NYU is the right call

Tadatsune wrote: Assuming the placement power is equal, you still have the fact that NYU has better overall employment stats.

What? If the placement power is equal, the "overall employment stats" are irrelevant

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JustE
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby JustE » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:06 pm

dooood wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:Now, are you really telling me that, discounting self-selection, that Michigan is going to place better in Cali than NYU?

Talk about poisoning the well. To answer your loaded question, they'll place very similarly and Mich may even place better. The only reason to go to NYU here is if OP recognizes that jobs in CA are extremely hard to come by and that he may wind up having to work in NY, where there are many more jobs. In which case NYU is the right call

Tadatsune wrote: Assuming the placement power is equal, you still have the fact that NYU has better overall employment stats.

What? If the placement power is equal, the "overall employment stats" are irrelevant

+1. Chill, dude. Peer schools are peers. If you don't want to live in NY, a lot of times NYU isn't the best option.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Tadatsune » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:18 pm

dooood wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:Now, are you really telling me that, discounting self-selection, that Michigan is going to place better in Cali than NYU?

Talk about poisoning the well. To answer your loaded question, they'll place very similarly and Mich may even place better. The only reason to go to NYU here is if OP recognizes that jobs in CA are extremely hard to come by and that he may wind up having to work in NY, where there are many more jobs. In which case NYU is the right call

Tadatsune wrote: Assuming the placement power is equal, you still have the fact that NYU has better overall employment stats.

What? If the placement power is equal, the "overall employment stats" are irrelevant


Placement in Cali vs overall employment stats, dude. You made the same point yourself half a second earlier.

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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:18 pm

I know the NMVPB thing is en vogue. In fact NYU places well on the west coast for those who want to go there. I go to NYU so I can say that with pretty good confidence. I can't speak to Michigan because I don't go there but I would be surprised if it's "better" for California.

That said, the money is significant. I don't think there's an objectively correct answer here.

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skers
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby skers » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:25 pm

It's good that the choosing law school section continues to just be a place for people to troll their own schools.

Depends on your priorities OP. 1. Limiting debt is persuasive. 2. Ann Arbor is a cool town, but you should probably decide whether or not you want a real city or not. 3. Neither school is going to offer an edge in California if you're CA or bust work that Berkeley waitlist 4. The whole recategorization of NYU as a super-regional on TLS is lulzy considering the area NYU offers an edge in is only the single biggest provider of big law employment. Your chances of getting biglawl are better at NYU (especially prestigious firms), it's up to you whether that's worth 40k.

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Bronck
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Bronck » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:28 pm

Real Madrid wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:Can you negotiate with Mich for more $$$? Also, if you are facing a deadline tell Columbia so you can get your award faster.

Otherwise, I'd pick NYU.


No. NYU is only superior to MVPB in NYC. In fact, an argument could probably be made that some of these schools are superior to NYU in particular regions of the country - Michigan in California being one such example.

Take Michigan and don't look back. Just think of it as $40,000+ you'll never have to pay back.


LOL, where are you drawing that conclusion from? TemporarySaint is 100% right here. NYU students overwhelmingly self-select to NYC. That doesn't mean that NYU students can't get California at the same rate as MVP, e.g.

OP, what are your preferences for jobs?
CA big law > any big law (i.e., NYC) > CA any job ?
CA big law > CA any job > any big law (i.e., NYC)?

If the former, then choose NYU. If the latter, choose Michigan, since it's cheaper.

Also, keep in mind that you would have to endure 3 years in the Midwaste of Michshitgan, while NYU gives you the opportunity to live in Manhattan.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Tadatsune » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:35 pm

Bronck wrote:Also, keep in mind that you would have to endure 3 years in the Midwaste of Michshitgan, while NYU gives you the opportunity to live in Manhattan.


Hey, Ann Arbor is a pretty sweet college town, if you are into that sort of thing.

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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:36 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:It's good that the choosing law school section continues to just be a place for people to troll their own schools.

Depends on your priorities OP. 1. Limiting debt is persuasive. 2. Ann Arbor is a cool town, but you should probably decide whether or not you want a real city or not. 3. Neither school is going to offer an edge in California if you're CA or bust work that Berkeley waitlist 4. The whole recategorization of NYU as a super-regional on TLS is lulzy considering the area NYU offers an edge in is only the single biggest provider of big law employment. Your chances of getting biglawl are better at NYU (especially prestigious firms), it's up to you whether that's worth 40k.

I agree with everything you said, but if you're talking about me with "trolling," then I don't know what to tell you. I try to be fair. The way I see it, this forum can be a lot of 0Ls regurgitating the same uninformed conventional wisdom in response to these questions, or it can include input from actual students who, for instance, have gone through OCI, and know people who tried and succeeded (or failed) to get jobs in different markets. But you guys can just continue to obsess over the minutiae of the NLJ data if you want.
Last edited by dixiecupdrinking on Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bronck
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Bronck » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:36 pm

Tadatsune wrote:
Bronck wrote:Also, keep in mind that you would have to endure 3 years in the Midwaste of Michshitgan, while NYU gives you the opportunity to live in Manhattan.


Hey, Ann Arbor is a pretty sweet college town, if you are into that sort of thing.


I would rather shoot myself than live in a college town.

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skers
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby skers » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:42 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:It's good that the choosing law school section continues to just be a place for people to troll their own schools.

Depends on your priorities OP. 1. Limiting debt is persuasive. 2. Ann Arbor is a cool town, but you should probably decide whether or not you want a real city or not. 3. Neither school is going to offer an edge in California if you're CA or bust work that Berkeley waitlist 4. The whole recategorization of NYU as a super-regional on TLS is lulzy considering the area NYU offers an edge in is only the single biggest provider of big law employment. Your chances of getting biglawl are better at NYU (especially prestigious firms), it's up to you whether that's worth 40k.

I agree with everything you said, but if you're talking about me with "trolling," then I don't know what to tell you. I try to be fair. The way I see it, this forum can be a lot of 0Ls regurgitating the same uninformed conventional wisdom in response to these questions, or it can include input from actual students who, for instance, have gone through OCI, and know people who tried and succeeded (or failed) to get jobs in different markets. But you guys can just continue to obsess over the minutiae of the NLJ data if you want.


It was more a general statement about what happens in the whole forum as I'd include 0Ls who have made and are trying to justify their law school decision in with the trolls. For sure, getting a perspective from current students> 0L wisdom.

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Tadatsune
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby Tadatsune » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:46 pm

Bronck wrote:
Tadatsune wrote:
Bronck wrote:Also, keep in mind that you would have to endure 3 years in the Midwaste of Michshitgan, while NYU gives you the opportunity to live in Manhattan.


Hey, Ann Arbor is a pretty sweet college town, if you are into that sort of thing.


I would rather shoot myself than live in a college town.


Fair enough, though obviously not everyone feels the same way.

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aekea
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Re: Michigan(70k debt) v NYU(110k debt) for West Coast

Postby aekea » Sat Mar 10, 2012 2:51 pm

Bronck wrote:
OP, what are your preferences for jobs?
CA big law > any big law (i.e., NYC) > CA any job ?
CA big law > CA any job > any big law (i.e., NYC)?

If the former, then choose NYU. If the latter, choose Michigan, since it's cheaper.

Also, keep in mind that you would have to endure 3 years in the Midwaste of Michshitgan, while NYU gives you the opportunity to live in Manhattan.


My preference would be CA any job > NY big law. Within reason though. I don't want to be an ambulance chaser in CA.

As to the location, I don't know how I feel about living in a college town. I'm not against it, but I've always lived in big cities so it would be something of a change. I also can't say that I know I'd enjoy living in New York, because I've never lived there and the last time I visited was 6 years ago.




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