NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

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rollie
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NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby rollie » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:40 am

Just received my award letter from NYU with $0, so thought I might throw this out there and hopefully get some thoughts. I'm originally from the east coast, went to school on the west coast, and would prefer to work in NYC/SF/Boston/maybe D.C. I'd like to work in IP, but I'm really just aiming for biglaw in general. I'm also interested in clerkships, provided I do well enough in school, but don't have too much of an interest in PI at this moment.

I'm going to try to ask NYU if they might be able to throw a few dollars my way, but not optimistic at all, so going by each school's estimate of yearly COA, total COA would be something like 224k for NYU, 132k for Duke. I really like NYC and have always wanted to move back, and if the gap wasn't quite so big, I wouldn't hesitate in going with NYU, but I'm wondering now if a 90k difference is too much to pass up.

Thanks!
Last edited by rollie on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

rollie
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby rollie » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:44 am

Oh, and does anyone know if $$ from Duke might help me in negotiating with NYU? I know they're not peers, but has anyone ever had any luck trying something similar?

bdubs
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby bdubs » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:50 am

Dook is a better choice with 75k. NYU places well in NYC corporate firms, but most of them aren't particularly strong in IP. You won't get much of an advantage in SF/DC/Boston from NYU, so you might as well take the money and lower COL. The only advantage I see for NYU is in clerkships, but I wouldn't take on 90k in extra debt for a tiny bit better chance at a clerkship.

NYU will negotiate, but you'll probably need something from higher up the food chain (offers from Michigan or Penn?)

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Bronck
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby Bronck » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:55 am

As much as I love NYC schools, Duke seems like the right decision here. NYU COA will balloon to 250-260k at graduation because interest accrues all 3 years.

rollie
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby rollie » Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:08 am

bdubs wrote:Dook is a better choice with 75k. NYU places well in NYC corporate firms, but most of them aren't particularly strong in IP. You won't get much of an advantage in SF/DC/Boston from NYU, so you might as well take the money and lower COL. The only advantage I see for NYU is in clerkships, but I wouldn't take on 90k in extra debt for a tiny bit better chance at a clerkship.

NYU will negotiate, but you'll probably need something from higher up the food chain (offers from Michigan or Penn?)


Ah, I have acceptances from Michigan and Penn, but haven't received any notification of aid yet. I was accepted at both pretty late though (Penn in January, Michigan last week), so I'm not too optimistic of getting a whole lot of money this late, but hopefully I'll hear back from them sometime soon.

craygar
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby craygar » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:03 pm

I know someone mentioned clerkships up, but no T13 school besides HYS gets more article III or clerships in general than Duke

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... clerkships

Plus, the Dean, David Levy, was a judge and is very clerkship oriented

If you are looking at clerskships definitely, I think Duke is definitely a better value with 75k scholly, NYU doesnt even rank in the top 10 in clerskships.

With NYU you definitely get a little more prestige, a better chance at NYC specific biglaw and a better chance at PI in general.

They are both part of the T13 and are not HYS, they are pretty much peer schools, their placement numbers are fairly similar (this past year's numbers http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 )

I think if you definitely want NYC biglaw, NYU may be a better choice, if you just want biglaw on the east coast in general and are interested in clerkships, go to Duke. It gives you a better chance at clerkships and the same shot at biglaw.

In terms of Penn or Mich, they both rank on the clerkship list, and Penn wrecks in BigLaw placement (Michigan not so much, it has had a downward trend). I would say see if Penn will give you money, but for the time being, go to Duke, have a low COL, and be happy with the money!

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skers
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby skers » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:09 pm

craygar wrote:I know someone mentioned clerkships up, but no T13 school besides HYS gets more article III or clerships in general than Duke

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... clerkships

Plus, the Dean, David Levy, was a judge and is very clerkship oriented

If you are looking at clerskships definitely, I think Duke is definitely a better value with 75k scholly, NYU doesnt even rank in the top 10 in clerskships.

With NYU you definitely get a little more prestige, a better chance at NYC specific biglaw and a better chance at PI in general.

They are both part of the T13 and are not HYS, they are pretty much peer schools, their placement numbers are fairly similar (this past year's numbers http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 )

I think if you definitely want NYC biglaw, NYU may be a better choice, if you just want biglaw on the east coast in general and are interested in clerkships, go to Duke. It gives you a better chance at clerkships and the same shot at biglaw.

In terms of Penn or Mich, they both rank on the clerkship list, and Penn wrecks in BigLaw placement (Michigan not so much, it has had a downward trend). I would say see if Penn will give you money, but for the time being, go to Duke, have a low COL, and be happy with the money!


Is that you QuakerOats?

But really, pick Duke.

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Bronck
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby Bronck » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:13 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:
craygar wrote:I know someone mentioned clerkships up, but no T13 school besides HYS gets more article III or clerships in general than Duke

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... clerkships

Plus, the Dean, David Levy, was a judge and is very clerkship oriented

If you are looking at clerskships definitely, I think Duke is definitely a better value with 75k scholly, NYU doesnt even rank in the top 10 in clerskships.

With NYU you definitely get a little more prestige, a better chance at NYC specific biglaw and a better chance at PI in general.

They are both part of the T13 and are not HYS, they are pretty much peer schools, their placement numbers are fairly similar (this past year's numbers http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 )

I think if you definitely want NYC biglaw, NYU may be a better choice, if you just want biglaw on the east coast in general and are interested in clerkships, go to Duke. It gives you a better chance at clerkships and the same shot at biglaw.

In terms of Penn or Mich, they both rank on the clerkship list, and Penn wrecks in BigLaw placement (Michigan not so much, it has had a downward trend). I would say see if Penn will give you money, but for the time being, go to Duke, have a low COL, and be happy with the money!


Is that you QuakerOats?

But really, pick Duke.


:lol: :lol:

rollie
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby rollie » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:17 pm

Let's say for the sake of argument that I fall below median (not that I'm planning to or anything, but who knows what will happen). Are there any differences in opportunities between the two from below median?

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Bronck
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby Bronck » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:20 pm

Depends on how far below median... but I'd feel more comfortable in the top 2/3 range at NYU than Duke.

jd2b1010
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby jd2b1010 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:21 pm

I was in the same situation and didn't really consider NYU once they wouldn't negotiate. I also have a feeling the 90k difference is more like 100k+. Rent alone is 1200-1500/month MORE in NYC.

Further, regarding placement, I think self-selection skews things somewhat. Duke has a large contingent targeting the worst market over the past few years for no offers, the south, and only 30% going to the best market, NYC. NYU has upwards of 75% going to NYC. How much of a bump the non-NYC schools should get when comparing NLJ250 data is difficult to estimate.

t14fanboy
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby t14fanboy » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:30 pm

Duke.

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ph14
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby ph14 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:36 pm

rollie wrote:Just received my award letter from NYU with $0, so thought I might throw this out there and hopefully get some thoughts. I'm originally from the east coast, went to school on the west coast, and would prefer to work in NYC/SF/Boston/maybe D.C. I'd like to work in IP, but I'm really just aiming for biglaw in general. I'm also interested in clerkships, provided I do well enough in school, but don't have too much of an interest in PI at this moment.

I'm going to try to ask NYU if they might be able to throw a few dollars my way, but not optimistic at all, so going by each school's estimate of yearly COA, total COA would be something like 224k for NYU, 132k for Duke. I really like NYC and have always wanted to move back, and if the gap wasn't quite so big, I wouldn't hesitate in going with NYU, but I'm wondering now if a 90k difference is too much to pass up.

Thanks!


If you're aiming for biglaw, i'd take Duke with a 75k scholly: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681.

CanadianWolf
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:45 pm

Until you receive scholarship money from Penn or Michigan, Duke is the better choice between NYU & Duke.

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Dany
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby Dany » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:53 pm

I'd pick Duke in a heartbeat. And if below median, you're better off having a hundred thousand dollars less debt.

rad lulz
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby rad lulz » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:02 pm

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rollie
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby rollie » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:37 am

Hmm, so I just received my Michigan aid offer of 54k, which would make COA for Michigan only about 17k more than Duke. That difference doesn't seem very large, so I'm guessing I wouldn't be too wrong to narrow my choices down to NYU and Michigan now (given my preferences), right?

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NinerFan
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby NinerFan » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:46 am

rollie wrote:Hmm, so I just received my Michigan aid offer of 54k, which would make COA for Michigan only about 17k more than Duke. That difference doesn't seem very large, so I'm guessing I wouldn't be too wrong to narrow my choices down to NYU and Michigan now (given my preferences), right?


If your interests are NYC/SF/Boston/DC, you should compare the placement data in terms of how many each school sends to each region. Some (NYU) place almost exclusively in NYC, so if you have a serious interest in working in SF, it's going to be a harder sell.

NYC is so expensive, so if NYU really offers you nothing, I would be choosing between Michigan and Duke IMHO. They're all going to be capable of getting you what you want, though the margin of error might be different at each school.

You might also want to consider quality of life though- do you want to live in a city during law school or not? Weather? Class size? girl/guy ratio? These are all among the many factors you should be considering.

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Dany
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby Dany » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:47 am

I wouldn't touch NYU at sticker price.

craygar
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby craygar » Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:49 am

See above, but I still think you would do better with Duke than Mich. Duke places better in clerkships than Mich, and is on the east coast so has easier access to those markets. Mich is a great school and obviously has access to east coast big law, but Duke has consistently placed very well in eastcoast big law, and this past year placed better than mich in biglaw in general. I still think it should be Duke v NYU (at least until you hear from Penn, and I ain't no Quaker).

rad lulz
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:04 am

.
Last edited by rad lulz on Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:08 am

rad lulz wrote:
Dany wrote:I wouldn't touch NYU at sticker price.

This, especially when you have much better options. I wouldn't consider NYU if I was you.


Give negotiation a shot before crossing them off the list.

rollie
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby rollie » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:10 am

Yeah, sent them an email, we'll see what happens. Thanks all for all the replies, good stuff to think about.

wolverine2013
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k)

Postby wolverine2013 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:59 pm

Not all Article III clerkships are the same. Duke isn't horrible for clerkships, but Michigan has traditionally been one of the best schools for clerkships in the country. It's unfair to say that Michigan has a downward trend in biglaw jobs. I think that comes with the assumption that roughly the same number of students at every school wants biglaw. Many of my classmates didn't even do OCI (some of them booked classes, are on law review). Penn on the other hand is extremely biglaw/corporate oriented, it's also very "old-money" from what I have heard. I'm sure about the same percentage of students from Michigan and Penn could get big law jobs.

craygar wrote:I know someone mentioned clerkships up, but no T13 school besides HYS gets more article III or clerships in general than Duke

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/c ... clerkships

Plus, the Dean, David Levy, was a judge and is very clerkship oriented

If you are looking at clerskships definitely, I think Duke is definitely a better value with 75k scholly, NYU doesnt even rank in the top 10 in clerskships.

With NYU you definitely get a little more prestige, a better chance at NYC specific biglaw and a better chance at PI in general.

They are both part of the T13 and are not HYS, they are pretty much peer schools, their placement numbers are fairly similar (this past year's numbers http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1 )

I think if you definitely want NYC biglaw, NYU may be a better choice, if you just want biglaw on the east coast in general and are interested in clerkships, go to Duke. It gives you a better chance at clerkships and the same shot at biglaw.

In terms of Penn or Mich, they both rank on the clerkship list, and Penn wrecks in BigLaw placement (Michigan not so much, it has had a downward trend). I would say see if Penn will give you money, but for the time being, go to Duke, have a low COL, and be happy with the money!

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Bronck
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Re: NYU v Duke (75k) v Michigan (54k)

Postby Bronck » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:18 pm

^ Michshitgan is a TTT in decline. They dropped 3 places to number 10. Only a matter of time before they're below t14.




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