Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

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ajr
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby ajr » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:40 pm

Retake. Until one of them rejects you.

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sunynp
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby sunynp » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:41 pm

Go to Yale. The small class size is a plus. New York is a train ride away on public transit.

titan747
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby titan747 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:09 pm

Sounds like you are splitting hairs... They are the top two laws schools IN THE WORLD... If you can't be successful from Harvard then you won't be successful at Yale either...

nkp007
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby nkp007 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:11 pm

ajr wrote:Retake. Until one of them rejects you.


Definitely retake.

1988AndX
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby 1988AndX » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:12 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I imagine that people committed to Biglaw from Yale could basically take a 3 year vacation. Of course, people who would do that generally don't get in to Yale.


That's not true. If you look at statistics for Harvard and Yale, you will notice that of the people who went into private practice, a higher percentage of Harvard Law grads went to firms with 250+ and 500+, meaning a higher proportion of Yale grads going into private practice end up working in smaller firms. This combined with Harvard Law's now higher lawyer/judge assessment score suggest that Harvard Law does have an edge in terms of private practice nowadays.

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Bronck
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby Bronck » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:23 pm

Or maybe it points to some sort of self selection bias....

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westinghouse60
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby westinghouse60 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:37 pm

1988AndX wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I imagine that people committed to Biglaw from Yale could basically take a 3 year vacation. Of course, people who would do that generally don't get in to Yale.


That's not true. If you look at statistics for Harvard and Yale, you will notice that of the people who went into private practice, a higher percentage of Harvard Law grads went to firms with 250+ and 500+, meaning a higher proportion of Yale grads going into private practice end up working in smaller firms. This combined with Harvard Law's now higher lawyer/judge assessment score suggest that Harvard Law does have an edge in terms of private practice nowadays.


The Yale people going into private practice at those firms with less than 250 attorneys could be (probably are?) going to work for boutique firms that are actually harder to get.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:53 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:
1988AndX wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I imagine that people committed to Biglaw from Yale could basically take a 3 year vacation. Of course, people who would do that generally don't get in to Yale.


That's not true. If you look at statistics for Harvard and Yale, you will notice that of the people who went into private practice, a higher percentage of Harvard Law grads went to firms with 250+ and 500+, meaning a higher proportion of Yale grads going into private practice end up working in smaller firms. This combined with Harvard Law's now higher lawyer/judge assessment score suggest that Harvard Law does have an edge in terms of private practice nowadays.


The Yale people going into private practice at those firms with less than 250 attorneys could be (probably are?) going to work for boutique firms that are actually harder to get.


Thank you.

Like I said. 3 year vacation.

1988AndX
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby 1988AndX » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:06 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
westinghouse60 wrote:
1988AndX wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I imagine that people committed to Biglaw from Yale could basically take a 3 year vacation. Of course, people who would do that generally don't get in to Yale.


That's not true. If you look at statistics for Harvard and Yale, you will notice that of the people who went into private practice, a higher percentage of Harvard Law grads went to firms with 250+ and 500+, meaning a higher proportion of Yale grads going into private practice end up working in smaller firms. This combined with Harvard Law's now higher lawyer/judge assessment score suggest that Harvard Law does have an edge in terms of private practice nowadays.


The Yale people going into private practice at those firms with less than 250 attorneys could be (probably are?) going to work for boutique firms that are actually harder to get.


Thank you.

Like I said. 3 year vacation.


3 year vacation -> job below market pay is always possible.

Applying_Late
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby Applying_Late » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:07 pm

I'm going to go say that choosing H over Y might not be the smartest decision unless you have compelling reasons why you want to be at H. A good chunk of people from H last year couldn't land a corporate job--if you plan to go to the next ASW, just ask and be persistent about it. While I am not a Yale student, I have heard from current students that firms flock to Yale and can't get enough of them: the problem is that most of the Yale kids don't want to do corporate law; nevertheless, the opportunities are just too good. As far as being on LR, which has some correlation to a good career, Yale's is much easier to get into. Relationships with professors, again strong correlation for getting clerkships: Y >>> H. How about opportunities for summer 1L jobs? Yale again (no grades for employers to gauage). And what about international? Yale, unless you care to appeal to lay people, but those people don't give you jobs. Maybe I would agree about H over Y if you planned to work in Turkmenistan.

The New Haven argument is not really a great one: many Yale 2Ls and certainly 3Ls commute from NYC, and I don't see how Boston competes with NYC (unless again you have some strong connection to Boston). Are you willing to throw away all these positives because you can't stand new haven for one year?

As far as faculty is concerned, yes they may have a stronger posse, but don't forget about ratio. Yale has roughly the same amount of faculty members for three times less the student population. I'm sorry but that just means way more competition to get a letter of rec. Have you considered what these faculty can do for you too? H professors in general are difficult to approach; Y professors are much more approachable. Lastly, Yale forces you to work with two faculty members; thus, you are forced to develop relationships which can help place you in clerkships. Remember it's the phone calls that count.

The last time I was at Harvard, one student was talking about all these game changers that Harvard has. I was very curious to what he meant, and it turned out some of the "game changers" were the student bar--open until 10--in the new Wasserstein Ctr, the bigger library, and that's about it....

I'm not trashing Harvard, but I really would like to see some compelling reasons as to why it's better than Y or at least equal to it.

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ph14
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby ph14 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:09 pm

Applying_Late wrote:I'm going to go say that choosing H over Y might not be the smartest decision unless you have compelling reasons why you want to be at H. A good chunk of people from H last year couldn't land a corporate job--if you plan to go to the next ASW, just ask and be persistent about it. While I am not a Yale student, I have heard from current students that firms flock to Yale and can't get enough of them: the problem is that most of the Yale kids don't want to do corporate law; nevertheless, the opportunities are just too good. As far as being on LR, which has some correlation to a good career, Yale's is much easier to get into. Relationships with professors, again strong correlation for getting clerkships: Y >>> H. How about opportunities for summer 1L jobs? Yale again (no grades for employers to gauage). And what about international? Yale, unless you care to appeal to lay people, but those people don't give you jobs. Maybe I would agree about H over Y if you planned to work in Turkmenistan.

The New Haven argument is not really a great one: many Yale 2Ls and certainly 3Ls commute from NYC, and I don't see how Boston competes with NYC (unless again you have some strong connection to Boston). Are you willing to throw away all these positives because you can't stand new haven for one year?

As far as faculty is concerned, yes they may have a stronger posse, but don't forget about ratio. Yale has roughly the same amount of faculty members for three times less the student population. I'm sorry but that just means way more competition to get a letter of rec. Have you considered what these faculty can do for you too? H professors in general are difficult to approach; Y professors are much more approachable. Lastly, Yale forces you to work with two faculty members; thus, you are forced to develop relationships which can help place you in clerkships. Remember it's the phone calls that count.

The last time I was at Harvard, one student was talking about all these game changers that Harvard has. I was very curious to what he meant, and it turned out some of the "game changers" were the student bar--open until 10--in the new Wasserstein Ctr, the bigger library, and that's about it....

I'm not trashing Harvard, but I really would like to see some compelling reasons as to why it's better than Y or at least equal to it.


HLS 1L here. I agree with the above. I probably would only pick H over Y if I was planning on doing the JD/MBA program or if Harvard's aid package was significantly better than Yale's.

countercouper
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby countercouper » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:20 pm

Applying_Late wrote:I'm going to go say that choosing H over Y might not be the smartest decision unless you have compelling reasons why you want to be at H. A good chunk of people from H last year couldn't land a corporate job--if you plan to go to the next ASW, just ask and be persistent about it. While I am not a Yale student, I have heard from current students that firms flock to Yale and can't get enough of them: the problem is that most of the Yale kids don't want to do corporate law; nevertheless, the opportunities are just too good. As far as being on LR, which has some correlation to a good career, Yale's is much easier to get into. Relationships with professors, again strong correlation for getting clerkships: Y >>> H. How about opportunities for summer 1L jobs? Yale again (no grades for employers to gauage). And what about international? Yale, unless you care to appeal to lay people, but those people don't give you jobs. Maybe I would agree about H over Y if you planned to work in Turkmenistan.

The New Haven argument is not really a great one: many Yale 2Ls and certainly 3Ls commute from NYC, and I don't see how Boston competes with NYC (unless again you have some strong connection to Boston). Are you willing to throw away all these positives because you can't stand new haven for one year?

As far as faculty is concerned, yes they may have a stronger posse, but don't forget about ratio. Yale has roughly the same amount of faculty members for three times less the student population. I'm sorry but that just means way more competition to get a letter of rec. Have you considered what these faculty can do for you too? H professors in general are difficult to approach; Y professors are much more approachable. Lastly, Yale forces you to work with two faculty members; thus, you are forced to develop relationships which can help place you in clerkships. Remember it's the phone calls that count.

The last time I was at Harvard, one student was talking about all these game changers that Harvard has. I was very curious to what he meant, and it turned out some of the "game changers" were the student bar--open until 10--in the new Wasserstein Ctr, the bigger library, and that's about it....

I'm not trashing Harvard, but I really would like to see some compelling reasons as to why it's better than Y or at least equal to it.


This was actually one of the most helpful things I've read so far. Just PM-ed you too (but before I saw this).

DeepSeaLaw
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby DeepSeaLaw » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:50 pm

Something nobody has mentioned is the difference in pedagogy. Yale doesn't require LRW or Property, and it's not just a stereotype that they place less emphasis on black letter law. I think it's nonsense that HLS has an "edge" in hiring for private practice--quite the opposite, I think Yale's cushier grading system and small class size make it much easier to get a good biglaw job out of the bottom of the class, or an elite job out of the middle of the class--but Harvard may prepare its students better for practice.

Also, just to correct what somebody said above: Yale does not have "roughly the same number of faculty" as Harvard. Yale has the lowest student/faculty ratio (around 7.5 I think?) whereas Harvard is more like 10:1. But I think people tend to overplay how much easier it is to get mentoring/faculty relationships at smaller schools. There may be a difference, but I don't think it's huge: faculty who enjoy getting to know students are going to be available, and those that only care about scholarship won't; the fact that your Antitrust class has 12 more students in it really isn't going to matter that much. Also, Harvard does have the broadest faculty of any law school, so if there's something you get really interested in, chances are there will be a professor who specializes in it.

I turned down Harvard (for Stanford), am happy with that choice, and would have taken Yale over Harvard if I got in--principally to not have to worry about ending up in the bottom third and struggling at OCI--but there are good reasons for some people to choose HLS.

lawschooliscool
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby lawschooliscool » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:42 pm

Harvard:
Image

Yale:
Image

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acrossthelake
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:52 pm

Yale has a definite advantage. I go to Harvard, I love Harvard, there are great opportunities here for post-law school employment and if you didn't get Yale, it wouldn't be anything to cry or be upset about. But you did get Yale, and unless you have more concrete personal reasons, I'd tell you to go to Yale. Examples might include wanting to do Harvard's JD/MBA, having a serious significant other who would have a much easier time in Boston over New Haven or NYC, etc. Even going to both ASWs and finding that you just really really have a strong preference would be okay. But unless you had some driving gut instinct to go to Harvard, or if there was something at Harvard you really couldn't get at Yale (like the Harvard MBA or a significant other who can't move), meh go to Yale and enjoy the relatively stress-free situation.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:54 pm

lawschooliscool wrote:Harvard:
Image

Yale:
Image


Yale:

Image

Harvard:

Image

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acrossthelake
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:07 pm

HLS:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

HLS/CLS:
Image

YLS:
Image
Image
Image

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:09 pm

You make a good point.

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Bronck
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby Bronck » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:10 pm

HLS:

Image

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acrossthelake
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:14 pm

Bronck wrote:HLS:

Image


TITCR.

bok92
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby bok92 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:48 am

A good chunk of people from H last year couldn't land a corporate job


Where is there evidence to support this? Also, where is there evidence to support an earlier claim that someone in the bottom THIRD at H would have trouble at OCI? That seems like a major exaggeration. I've heard over 90% succeed at OCI, and those who fail often failed because of their bidding strategy.

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dproduct
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby dproduct » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:45 am

Just pick one and then hire me.

Ofta3184
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby Ofta3184 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:52 am

i'd retake and try and get into SLS. I mean, according to the 2012 rankings, they are making major moves and if they keep it up they'll be #1 next year. /thread

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MarcusAurelius
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby MarcusAurelius » Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:14 pm

have you given any thought to florida coastal

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tinman
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Re: Has anyone here chosen Harvard over Yale?

Postby tinman » Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:21 pm

countercouper wrote:I'm just wondering if anyone here was accepted to Yale but turned it down to go to Harvard, and if you ended up having any regrets about your choice.

Thanks!

ETA: I'm thinking about turning down Yale for Harvard for a couple of reasons: (1) I've never gone to a small school before, so I'm worried Yale will feel claustrophobic. (2) I'd rather live in Cambridge/Boston than New Haven. (3) HLS has a stronger alumni network, especially internationally, which I think could be useful since I hope to spend at least part of my career abroad. It'd be great to hear your thoughts on whether I might be making a mistake or not.


YLS 3L here. About the alumni network issue, Harvard's is bigger but I think that Yale's might be stronger--alumni are more likely to help each other precisely because there are fewer of them. Cambridge is definitely more fun than New Haven, but it's true what others have said about 2ls and 3Ls living in NYC from Yale.

I think the best reason for choosing Harvard is its lay prestige, especially international lay prestige. If you want to work abroad, that's a huge factor.

I don't think you should discount the Yale-is-a-more-pleasant-experience factor. Think of how awesome no grades for one semester is, followed by whatever the hell you want to take.

If you don't mind taking big lecture classes where you get no feedback from professors and grades matter for things, I think Harvard is a decent choice. But if you prefer feedback from professors/seminars, I don't think you will find much of that at Harvard, and you would be much better off at Yale.

I actually took a seminar class at Harvard. It was awesome, but almost all the feedback was from a random teaching assistant. At Yale, some of the most famous professors are also generous with there time and comments on papers.




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